CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[Lilibet]

I think the order of blame is:1) Derick Ion 2) the owner 3) city inspectors/ tenants

That's exactly how I've seen it too. I also feel that the percentage of blame should be something like Derick Ion at least 50% and probably more, the owner about 30% and the city/tenants no more than 20%. That could change as more facts come out about the 30 pages of citations the mayor released. We shall see. But Ion is the person mainly responsible.

 

[Lilibet]

Gitana, I hope you had an easy flight and can have a good sleep in your own bed tonight. Still surrounding you with love, hugs and prayers. :heartbeat:

 

[CARIIS]

BBM

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ghost-ship-oakland-fire-20161204-story.html

Who owns the building?

The Oakland warehouse is one of several properties owned by Chor N. Ng, according to her daughter, Eva Ng, 36. She was adamant that the warehouse was being leased as studio space for an art collective and not used as residences.

Eva Ng said she had been reassured by the lease holder that nobody lived in the building. "They confirmed multiple times. They said sometimes some people worked through the night, but that is all," Ng said.

Still, one former tenant told The Times that he remembered at least 10 people living inside the warehouse. Bradley Evans, who moved out in August 2015, said the man who collected the rent lived in the building with his wife and three children.

The man instructed tenants to tell the landlord they were working on art projects and not living there full time, said Evans, 21. The landlord “came by once a month to collect the money and didn’t ask any questions,” he added.

Ng said she believed the building had smoke detectors and two second-floor exits, both wooden stairs. She was not familiar with a report that one of the stairs was at least partly made of pallets. But she was aware that there had been parties in the building.

"It's Christmas, after all," she said.

A lot of you were right all along - mr mrs whatever NG has got some issues coming that way.

 

[Jewels53]

Sending more hugs and prayers to you Gitana and your family! I hope you will have answers soon. Please do take care of yourself!

 

[LinasK]

For trans women killed by Oakland fire, struggle for respect continues in death

The Alameda County Sheriffs Office/Coroner has promised to be sensitive to this need in that the death certificates can be issued in whatever gender the person chose to identify with, rather than the gender of their birth. I witnessed this briefing.

 

[CARIIS]

That's not accurate.

I agree


I think we are going to find a lot of blunt force injuries as a result of collapse- the initial cluster of bodies indicates that -----

smoke inhalation usually results in more separation between fatalities - in that succumbing to that is a whole bunch of stuff - body weight/ size/lung condition/degree of panic and inhalation/proximity to actual flames/age/gender/physical condition etc etc

will there be inhalation in all yes - not like in a plane if some die before fire, in this instance I would think most have smoke in their lungs only cause they were all alive when it started - but I think the ME will be able to determine if it was blunt force from falling objects, or falling and impact injuries that resulted in death compared to pure inhalation and succumbing to inhalation of toxins

think sadly, some of those determinations will not be able to be determined based on involvement with actual fire .

moo

 

[LinasK]

A lot of you were right all along - mr mrs whatever NG has got some issues coming that way.

I'm about 1/2hour behind on the presser and I agree. I just heard the mayor say that the owner was informed that the inspector was denied, and didn't grant permission to enter. Mr/Mrs Ng turned a blind eye to what was going on as long as the money flowed. Ion charged cash only- someone showed his rental agreements. Didn't charge people the same amounts and he put the agreement under the Satya Yuga(sp?)"Manager" name, not his own. Oh, and $450 late fee!!!

 

[CARIIS]

What does this mean?


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for the anticipated rain that is all this disaster needs

 

[monkeypants]

Gitana, I hope you had an easy flight and can have a good sleep in your own bed tonight. Still surrounding you with love, hugs and prayers. :heartbeat:

She must be so incredibly exhausted both physically and mentally. My heart breaks for her brother.

 

[Spellbound]

Will check back first thing in the morning.

Gitana, try to get some proper rest. Thank you, Linas, for all you have done, and for the updates.

I certainly hope ALL the victims get their proper respect. Transgender .... does it really matter? I mean in the sense of "does it affect my feelings". To at all, but I hope it is not another excuse for any online bashing by ignorant attention seekers --- that would infuriate me even more than I already have been.

Somehow, I am pulling toward the owner having a large percentage of fault here, equal with Ion. As for inspectors or other officials --- it will all come out.

 

[CARIIS]

Spot on. That was exactly his attitude when his kids were removed (or kidnapped, as he put it). Nothing is ever his responsibility, and if people say negative things about him they are lying and trying to destroy him. Ugh.

Only heard bits and pieces , dont do FB can someone give us an overall deal with this kidnapped kids deal etc TIA

 

[CARIIS]

BBM

DA himself admitted in the Today Show interview that he and his family usually slept at the warehouse, so apparently they still lived there. Whether that was in violation of the conditions for their return, we don't know...yet.

You could be right about suicide. But the anger expressed on FB and toward Lauer also causes me concern that he will cause harm to anyone he blames for destroying his self image.

What was the general reason for those feelings regarding Laur? TIA

 

[Damarna]

What was the general reason for those feelings regarding Laur? TIA

JMO.... I was seeing comments to the effect of "how could you bully this poor grieving man?" Just paraphrasing.

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[CARIIS]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/latest-artist-colony-founder-warehouse-mass-grave-44005879


"Spokeswoman Tawnee Lightfoot says Almena was stopped for driving with expired registration and, after a consensual search, two license plates from Oakland-area stolen cars were found. The charges apparently were not pursued"

City officials have said he wasn't allowed inside.

Which is it - the implications are enormous. The way it has been worded was like no one was home?

 

[LinasK]

for the anticipated rain that is all this disaster needs

Fortunately they expect to finish tonight and the storm isn't due 'till tomorrow night. Wonder if they will tarp the roof?

 

[Ty'sMommy]

Not sure if this link has been shared yet or not. I apologize, if so!

I cannot believe there were children leaving in this filth!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-40...ditions-inside-Oakland-warehouse-36-died.html

 

[Hippiechic]

http://foxbaltimore.com/news/nation-world/the-latest-official-refrigerator-potential-source-of-fire

Gosh maybe a refrigerator

OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — The Latest on a deadly fire in an Oakland warehouse (all times local):
3:45 p.m.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says it is looking at the possibility that a refrigerator or other appliance was the source of a warehouse fire that killed 36 people.
Jill Snyder, the special agent in charge of the ATF's San Francisco office, said it's too early to say for sure a refrigerator caused the blaze, but she said it was a potential source of ignition. Snyder said investigators are looking at anything electrical on the first floor of the warehouse near where the fire started.

 

[1&2&3]

On the question of the inspector not being allowed inside, was the door kept locked?

Could it have been DA answered the door and said the manager wasn't there and he couldn't let anyone inside? It is doubtful an inspector is going to know what the manager looks like. If the city only inspects every two years, managers could change. Using manager as renter/leasee.

 

[CARIIS]

Fortunately they expect to finish tonight and the storm isn't due 'till tomorrow night. Wonder if they will tarp the roof?

During the presser they had split screen and I was listening but watching the big equipment. When watching the one that was knocking the wall in, I thought why not tap it outward - then nothing would fall on the debris insdie?

And the little green ones, I thought yea, that must be hard for the folks that live there to see your "stuff" blackened, and scooped up and tossed in a dumpster

 

[CARIIS]

JMO.... I was seeing comments to the effect of "how could you bully this poor grieving man?" Just paraphrasing.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

IMO only he was very careful in the beginning. Talking lower than normal. Then it looked to me like it evolved into a power control issue.

I have found it interesting which media outlets he has engaged with thus far. Makes me think he has to have someone behind the scenes dancing this all out

Maybe this is not true, but thus far we have seen no attorneys (plural!)- to me that rings so narssaccitic and somewhat scary