CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[CoreyRocks]

Around 2:12 the person goes down the pallet stairway - I think. As they reach the bottom you see the No Smoking sign which is by the area with the toaster oven and fire extinguisher (pic posted by CoreyRocks in the last thread). Is this possibly where the fridge was? It's hard to tell since parts of the video are dark and there's no option to pause or slow it down like you can on YouTube. Around 2:55 you catch a glimpse of what might be a fridge. I dunno.

From the video it's clear that the condition of the warehouse was way worse than the pics on the web site. Now I understand what the former residents were talking about.

I'm curious about where the DJ plugged in his equipment in relation to the fridge and burnt wall area. If he plugged stuff in on the same circuit it's likely the overload caused the cords to overheat. Sigh. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Sending good thoughts to Gitana and her brother. :loveyou:

MM - thank you but I can't take credit for posting that photo, I just replied with quote cause I had zoomed in on some pix someone else posted and I took a closer look and noticed some things.

On the daily mail video link if you click the start button on lower left you can stop, start and pause. At least I could. When I clicked the link ON the video it didn't have that capability. Maybe you can watch again and report more. Hth. Also, I believe you are right about the fridge. I see it maybe at 253 or 255, two white appliances maybe? Thanks for everyone's insight.

Gitana1 words are not good enough to express my extreme sadness. Sending love and hugs to you and your brother, your family, and Jennifer ' s parents, friends and classmates. Anything at all to try and help I am available in the Midwest.

Went back and looked the amazing CARIIS is the original picture poster. Thank you.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I agree!

where we live only the homeowner can have the trash hauling in their name so they tack it on rent. and we had a few old mattresses in my backyard waiting for a time we had some extra cash (read: never) to take it to the dump because the trash hauler just takes what is in the can weekly. luckily we got a mailer for a large item even provided by the community,. we were able to get rid of a bunch of crap. ppl living under the radar so to speak don't get mail and I am willing to bet the ppl who chuck their large items were moving or evicted and just had to get rid of it.

there are lovely parts of Oakland but international isn't one of them. also in previous years, ppl who got priced out of the city (SF) moved to Oakland but they in turn have driven up costs for town ppl (Oakland is called the town) and they have had to move to pittsburg or Antioch and so it goes... its the reason ppl from Oregon and Idaho hate us. we leave and drive up their costs.

I lived in MN in an area that was right by a beautiful scenic drive. People were always throwing trash and furniture appliances, rugs, etc.

In our area, you had to pay your own garbage. There are other states and areas where garbage is not a choice. It is a bill you pay no matter what. Here in my Third World country where I rent, we have garbage service three days a week and it is required by everyone.

Once in awhile and I do not know when as I don't have the issue, people pile up their bigger items and they are picked up.

This is true in other communities in the US as well.

Getting rid of large items should be something a community provides for. As the citiation for the Ghost Ship exterior stated junk thrown out is a home for vectors. That means lovely things such as rats.

A community benefits from not having garbage piled up.

 

[human]

we don't have family anywhere else. its scary to move to the unknown. we ourselves personally cant move because of joint custody.

O/t. Look at the house prices in this cute town.

http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...gclid=CIfg46Lv4tACFcVcfgodutoAnA&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[cvaldez1975]

im sure it can, if tax money could be used toward affordable housing and a seller would accept an offer but most sellers here end up selling to off shore investors for cash. my cousin was trying to buy a home and literally could not despite a nice down, pre approved mortgage and excellent credit. kept getting out bid from cash buyers..

So the warehouses cannot be turned into housing like has been done in other areas all over the US?

 

[rsd1200]

Perhaps instead of waiting for someone to do something, they could do something. Perhaps they could contact other places to see how it was done. Santa Cruz is even in CA so it would be more relevant than something in Minnesota.

I am jaded. The sense of entitlement gets to me. Do something then! People do it all over the US. It is not a new concept

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I don't see the sub-letters as entitled. They seemed to have jobs and just kept getting pushed out of places they were renting. There's people living in tents down the street from there who are not entitled artists. That's not entitlement. Do I feel Ion is entitled? Absolutely. When folks who worked in silicon valley had their world pulled out from under them, they lived in "The Jungle" a dangerous tent city, even though they still worked. Not everyone has the means to make something like this community in Santa Cruz. If they did, the world would be a much better place.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I would love to move to sacramento. they hate us though we Bay ppl are driving their costs up! lol

unfortunately for us, satan (the ex wife) has a rich gma moneybags so no reason to move. maybe someday SHE will get the idea to move to Sac (she has mentioned wanting to before but she would never if she thought it was our idea, chuckle)

The joint custody is a situation that cannot be overcome. But moving someday may be a good choice. There are beautiful places all over the US.

 

[cvaldez1975]

that's beautiful and so affordable! it gets so cold though lol.

moving would really take research (for in the future) for what industries are local to a particular area. my husband works in tech so we are ground zero for that, but he isn't one of the highly paid ones!

O/t. Look at the house prices in this cute town.

http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...gclid=CIfg46Lv4tACFcVcfgodutoAnA&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[cvaldez1975]

sorry for going off topic! my heart goes out to Gitana and her family.

DIA is a megalomaniac. its sad when ppl are taken advantage of in a tough situation. the local rental market is relevant that it spotlights why anyone would live like this. anyways I hope they can ID her and she is put to rest peacefully. and I hope they can id that last victim

 

[rsd1200]

I think that more folks than her, got sucked in with the talk, cheap rent, close to work, and then just hung on until they were able to get something better.

Quote: "They talk a good game" "There are people there that wanted to be there and believed in it, and I believe I did to, for a little bit, and then afterwards, I was like, uhm, no."

[video=youtube;t9g-lcxDmHM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9g-lcxDmHM[/video]

 

[human]

I would love to move to sacramento. they hate us though we Bay ppl are driving their costs up! lol

unfortunately for us, satan (the ex wife) has a rich gma moneybags so no reason to move. maybe someday SHE will get the idea to move to Sac (she has mentioned wanting to before but she would never if she thought it was our idea, chuckle)

O/t put it in the grapevine the last thing on earth you want to do is move

 

[rsd1200]

thank you, you summed it up perfectly. and when ppl complain they want a living wage they are told "well you settled, you should have gotten an ivy league education like me! #looksdownnose well who would then provide these services you like so much cuz if we have to move to the valley we sure aint gonna commute here to serve you.

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Who's going to cut their hair, mow their lawns, mop the floors of the nursing homes that their elderly family members may live in, clean the toilets in their children's schools, serve food in local restaurants, work on their vehicles, and I could go on but I'll stop before I go into full rant mode. You don't have to have a college degree to be a valuable part of society.

 

[K_Z]

I have been looking for the answer to this, but haven’t found anything online yet. Has the city of Oakland given any money yet to the families of the victims? Funeral compensation or anything like that? Even a funeral without disposition of remains could be a low of about $3000 each.

I would guess eventually the city of Oakland will be on the hook for about $6 million per victim, or about $216 million (whether Oakland decides to pay it pre-emptively, or is sued for it.)

There is a lot of blame to go around in this situation.

 

[rsd1200]

I lived in MN in an area that was right by a beautiful scenic drive. People were always throwing trash and furniture appliances, rugs, etc.

In our area, you had to pay your own garbage. There are other states and areas where garbage is not a choice. It is a bill you pay no matter what. Here in my Third World country where I rent, we have garbage service three days a week and it is required by everyone.

Once in awhile and I do not know when as I don't have the issue, people pile up their bigger items and they are picked up.

This is true in other communities in the US as well.

Getting rid of large items should be something a community provides for. As the citiation for the Ghost Ship exterior stated junk thrown out is a home for vectors. That means lovely things such as rats.

A community benefits from not having garbage piled up.

.
We are rural and do not have garbage pick up. We can pay for someone to come, but we haul it off ourselves b/c it's fairly expensive and you can't put out large items. Our county dump charges quite a bit, hence, I can't count how often I see a stray mattress, or recliner, on the side of the road. I live in a beautiful, rural, but fairly low income, area of the Appalachia region. The dump charges 1$ per kitchen sized bag, that you take there, and I forgot how much for a large item like a couch but it is not cheap. That is extra money a lot of folks around here just don't have and, unfortunately, garbage is something that we all create. I agree, the county/state/somebody, should figure some way that it is free to dump all of this stuff at no up front cost. There is a county not far from us that does absorb the cost but it is not considered an at-risk county and apparently can afford to do so.

 

[K_Z]

Here is info on artspaces and info on low income housing credits

Examples of people doing something .

http://www.artspace.org/ideas-insights/artist-preference-affordable-housing

Human, I am in complete agreement with your posts on this one. There is a lot of blame to go around, and the victims, as tragic as their deaths are for their ages (and some with higher education), do bear some responsibility for how these “live/work” spaces come to be—if they are truly “live/ work”, and not just an excuse for drug dens and squatters.

There are many successful, legal, and safe colonies of artists.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Yes, I believe so - and that reminds me of what Micah stated during an interview yesterday, that they had made all the repairs they could afford to do (paraphrased). That sentence really annoyed me and I meant to comment on it earlier. There was extra $$ for extracurricular activities though, from what I can tell.

I agree.

If DA was making 5k to 10k profit per month while renting live in spaces under his sole rental agreement. Then he is liable as well since this was a rental business to him.

So he finds a warehouse for 5k a month. But gets enough people to illegally live there while making money off top.

This means that he is basically the property manager. Even if its not in writing with the owner.

 

[rsd1200]

One thing to keep in mind is that the place wasn't being used only as a residence. And while it undoubtedly was not fit for living, the problem was compounded by the fact that it was being used as a concert venue as well. I'm not saying it wouldn't have caught fire if the only people there that night were the ones who lived there, but the death toll probably wouldn't have been nearly as high. The fact that it was operating as both a private residence and a public arena put many people at risk...the tenants, the concert attendees, and the first responders who tried to save them.

.
I see your point but, when I was young, I've had some fan-dang-tastic parties, with folks packed shoulder-to-shoulder, in old farm houses, where I've lived, and other folks have lived. I've had people at my parties that I'd never seen before and have never laid eyes on since. When we threw one, it was packed like sardines most times, on both floors, and sometimes they even flowed out onto the porches. We'd all have never gotten out if a fire started. As unsafe as the GS was, it was their home. If they wanted to throw concerts, and charge a few bucks to cover costs, that was their thing. I've been to parties at homes with bands playing. That's why Ion said they were in a motel that night, to let those folks have fun with their party. They didn't want to participate that night, for whatever reason. Be this all as it may, the warehouses throughout the area are still most likely much like the GS. Unsafe and not approved for rental purposes. What number is an acceptable number to die in the next fire?

 

[human]

.
We are rural and do not have garbage pick up. We can pay for someone to come, but we haul it off ourselves b/c it's fairly expensive and you can't put out large items. Our county dump charges quite a bit, hence, I can't count how often I see a stray mattress, or recliner, on the side of the road. I live in a beautiful, rural, but fairly low income, area of the Appalachia region. The dump charges 1$ per kitchen sized bag, that you take there, and I forgot how much for a large item like a couch but it is not cheap. That is extra money a lot of folks around here just don't have and, unfortunately, garbage is something that we all create. I agree, the county/state/somebody, should figure some way that it is free to dump all of this stuff at no up front cost. There is a county not far from us that does absorb the cost but it is not considered an at-risk county and apparently can afford to do so.

That is disgusting as those with lower incomes probably have car issues. In MN, we paid $32 a month for recycling and once a month pick up. My kids pay $76 a month with weekly pickup and monthly recycling.

Furniture, etc is an extra price and you haul to the dump.

Garbage is one of my big concerns for many reasons. But for this case, the blight it causes is something that adds to the undesirability and unlivablity of a neighborhood.

It would be cheaper to simply have paid garbage for everyone via property taxes or some other means. Then there would not have to be the money spent on staff, paperwork to deal with it. And then maybe there would be time to address the death spaces

 

[LinasK]

can anyone catch a still of this pallet staircase?

It's in the Dailymail photos in the article where they interviewed Shelley Mack. It's not exactly pallets, more like 2x4's.

 

[human]

I agree.

If DA was making 5k to 10k profit per month while renting live in spaces under his sole rental agreement. Then he is liable as well since this was a rental business to him.

So he finds a warehouse for 5k a month. But gets enough people to illegally live there while making money off top.

This means that he is basically the property manager. Even if its not in writing with the owner.

He made them pay cash. Did he declare his income? I doubt it.

 

[human]

.
Who's going to cut their hair, mow their lawns, mop the floors of the nursing homes that their elderly family members may live in, clean the toilets in their children's schools, serve food in local restaurants, work on their vehicles, and I could go on but I'll stop before I go into full rant mode. You don't have to have a college degree to be a valuable part of society.

In big cities, immigrants. In smaller areas, a variety of people. I know some teachers who are waitresses as it pays more than teaching, I know a guy with a degree from a prestigous college who is a truck driver.

Some people have given up lucrative jobs to have B and B's so they are cleaning toilets.

Some people LOVE to clean. They really do. Not me.