CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[MsMarple]

I should have read all posts before I replied to the last one. My mistake, obviously.

Again, shall I ask mods to remove the error pics? Yes --- I will ask.

Bad Spellbound, bad! ...Just joking. :loveyou: Seriously, it's hard to keep up with all the photos being released of other live/work warehouses since the fire. Even the GS address makes no sense. I've seen it listed as 1305, 1309 and 1315. On Yelp it's listed as 1309:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/satya-yuga-oakland

I've looked at so many before and after photos by now that I'm finally able to recognize it with no problem. I think I'm becoming obsessed here...

 

[CARIIS]

Thanks ... I did request mods remove the pic that is wrong. (That isn't the same article I saw earlier at that link. ???)

No worries same thing happened a couple of days ago and it frustrated me I wanted you guys to see it - can't remember now what it was !!!

 

[CARIIS]

OK, someone help me out. I'm confused by those photo's. That 1st picture that has the mural on the roll up door has a set of windows to the right which don't exist (look at google maps) and the address on the door of that picture is 1190, not 1315.

My eyes are not as good as yours ... I could not read an address. the article said it was the same place, but I would agree it may not be. I have studied pics over and over and could not see that blue painting anywhere --- I had thought it probably was on a side that we never saw.

Aargh --- sincere apology --- it definitely is the wrong warehouse!

Shall I have request it be removed to avoid further confusion? I think I will.

When I first saw it I thought that is beautiful - so we got some color in a dark story - the one next to looked neat also what little I could see.

 

[Spellbound]

Bad Spellbound, bad! ...Just joking. :loveyou: Seriously, it's hard to keep up with all the photos being released of other live/work warehouses since the fire. Even the GS address makes no sense. I've seen it listed as 1305, 1309 and 1315. On Yelp it's listed as 1309:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/satya-yuga-oakland

I've looked at so many before and after photos by now that I'm finally able to recognize it with no problem. I think I'm becoming obsessed here...

thanks, I already gave myself the old smackeroo. :trout:

 

[mom2four717]

This article has a photo of a "kitchen" and one of a trailer.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/2-investigates/222317129-story

 

[human]

Maybe families have priority, but this man worked mostly with single people, mostly men. He said not only were they drug addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, vets, just out of work, working poor, but a large number were ex-cons.

Portland Oregon has t that all apartments are available for housing vouchers, not sure if it's the enire state I think it started last year or this year. Can't find the article I read earlier this year but found this. In California and I think most states the apartment or home owner decides if they wan to accept housing vouchers. There is a large penalty in Portand for refusing voucher.

http://koin.com/2016/09/13/low-income-housing-vouchers-now-available/

The Section 8 vouchers can be applied to any apartment building in Portland if residents meet the necessary income requirements.

In MN, there are some things for singles such as wet houses for people who are still drinking. People who have children are the priority.

So a person there could get a $5000 a month apt and spend 30 % of income which might be a miniscule amount?

Isn't Sec 8 Federal? The rules in MN specify the cap on what an apartment can rent for on the open market. Seems like people could charge anything if they thought Sec 8 would pick up the rest

 

[MsMarple]

thanks, I already gave myself the old smackeroo. :trout:

Lol, here, let me help you with that :slap:. Again, joking - all in good fun. If I had a nickel for every time I...

Getting back on topic, it seems like every article I read about Derick Ion and Micah Allison my blood pressure goes higher.

But although friends and other artists in the alternative arts community described the Ghost Ship as a creative hodgepodge of antiques, Balinese statues and makeshift wood structures, Danielle Boudreaux, a former friend of the couple’s, said the warehouse looked that way only for parties and events.

Most of the time, garbage, broken glass, nails, rotting food, cat feces and leftover glow sticks littered the warehouse’s concrete floors, where the couple’s children would run around barefoot, Boudreaux said....
The couple’s children went to school with Boudreaux’s, but were chronically absent and infested with lice, she said. Boudreaux alerted Allison’s parents, who called Child Protective Services. Authorities briefly took the children in 2015, but Almena and Allison got them back.
...
On Facebook, Allison asked her friends to write the judge involved in their CPS case and help her family from being “condemned on base of speculation and slander.” Both Boudreaux and Michael Allison say Micah never forgave them.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...r-the-woman-who-helped-run-Ghost-10789682.php

Those poor kids. I have a young friend who was raised (his words) like a gypsy by hippie parents. Such as living in tipis in New Mexico, in a tent out here in Washington - like that. Yet they both nurtured him beautifully and he's grown into a wonderful person. So it can be done. And he never had lice.

I don't see the same happening to the poor Ion children. As far as I'm concerned they're a pair of losers who care more for themselves than their kids.

 

[CARIIS]

I dont know the intensity of Boudreaux endless ranting bothers me omewhat.

Not saying basic accusations are incorrect , but she and the other one are really doing the media whirlwind.

jmo

 

[McMunn]

Going back to the person who reportedly jumped from the second story (since that is where everyone seems to have been except Peter)...
There appeared to have been metal mesh on all of the upper widows, so I wonder how they got out. I wouldn't think it would be fatal jumping from only the second floor, so I am very surprised we haven't heard more about this.

I did read something about two younger attendees jumping from the loft, and just found the article. So my question is this: Was there an open area on the 2nd floor where these two kids jumped from? I'm confused. The diagrams don't show one, and neither do any of the pics that I have seen. Here's a paragraph from the article: "Some at the party upstairs, including a couple of high school students who got separated from a friend when the lights went out, bypassed the rickety makeshift stairs and jumped from the loft in their haste to get out. Their friend never made it."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/urvivor-oakland-ghost-ship-fire-recalls-tragedy-article-1.2906006

 

[mom2four717]

Any speculation on DI/A and criminal charges?

 

[al66pine]

....
Portland Oregon has t that all apartments are available for housing vouchers, not sure if it's the enire state I think it started last year or this year. Can't find the article I read earlier this year but found this. In California and I think most states the apartment or home owner decides if they wan to accept housing vouchers. There is a large penalty in Portand for refusing voucher.
http://koin.com/2016/09/13/low-income-housing-vouchers-now-available/
The Section 8 vouchers can be applied to any apartment building in Portland if residents meet the necessary income requirements.

sbm^ Not sure if "Section 8 vouchers can be applied to any apartment building in Portland" (bbm) is accurate. Perhaps in Portland and/or St of Oregon.

Sec 8 program info below - re US gen'ly - is a bit confusing (to me).
".... landlords, although required to meet fair housing laws, are not required to participate in the Section 8 program. As a result, some landlords will not accept a Section 8 tenant. This can be attributed to such factors as:

• not wanting the government involved in their business, such as having a full inspection of their premises by government workers for HUD's Housing Quality Standards (HQS) and the possible remediations required[SUP][16][/SUP]
• a desire to charge a rent for the unit above FMR...."

"...Depending on state laws, refusing to rent to a tenant solely for the reason that they have Section 8 may be illegal.[SUP][17][/SUP] Landlords can use only general means of disqualifying a tenant (credit, criminal history, past evictions, etc.)." (bbm)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)

IIRC ^ as an apt bldg owner, gen'ly in US, a person can choose to participate in Sec. 8 program or not. Can have some of his properties included in Sec8, but not all his properties. For his prop's in Sec8 program, he can't give preference in renting to a prospective non-Sec8 tenant over a prospective Sec8 tenant. That's how I'm reading it but could be all wrong, JM2cts.

Regardless, agreeing that housing for low inc folks may be unavailable, undesirable, or downright unsafe, unsanitary in many parts of US. I have no answers to resolve situation.

 

[MsMarple]

I did read something about two younger attendees jumping from the loft, and just found the article. So my question is this: Was there an open area on the 2nd floor where these two kids jumped from? I'm confused. The diagrams don't show one, and neither do any of the pics that I have seen. Here's a paragraph from the article: "Some at the party upstairs, including a couple of high school students who got separated from a friend when the lights went out, bypassed the rickety makeshift stairs and jumped from the loft in their haste to get out. Their friend never made it."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/urvivor-oakland-ghost-ship-fire-recalls-tragedy-article-1.2906006

That's what I had read too. I think the jumping out a window story is confused with the teens jumping from the loft. It's really hard to see just how much space the second floor was - I heard one reference to it as a mezzanine floor so who knows.

I can also imagine that as the pallet stairs burned the kids could have jumped down from the top of them. Oh, and I bet those kids were with the 17 year old who died - Draven McGill. Damn.

 

[KaaBoom]

sbm^ Not sure if "Section 8 vouchers can be applied to any apartment building in Portland" (bbm) is accurate. Perhaps in Portland and/or St of Oregon.

Sec 8 program info below - re US gen'ly - is a bit confusing (to me).
".... landlords, although required to meet fair housing laws, are not required to participate in the Section 8 program. As a result, some landlords will not accept a Section 8 tenant. This can be attributed to such factors as:

• not wanting the government involved in their business, such as having a full inspection of their premises by government workers for HUD's Housing Quality Standards (HQS) and the possible remediations required[SUP][16][/SUP]
• a desire to charge a rent for the unit above FMR...."

"...Depending on state laws, refusing to rent to a tenant solely for the reason that they have Section 8 may be illegal.[SUP][17][/SUP] Landlords can use only general means of disqualifying a tenant (credit, criminal history, past evictions, etc.)." (bbm)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)

IIRC ^ as an apt bldg owner, gen'ly in US, a person can choose to participate in Sec. 8 program or not. Can have some of his properties included in Sec8, but not all his properties. For his prop's in Sec8 program, he can't give preference in renting to a prospective non-Sec8 tenant over a prospective Sec8 tenant. That's how I'm reading it but could be all wrong, JM2cts.

Regardless, agreeing that housing for low inc folks may be unavailable, undesirable, or downright unsafe, unsanitary in many parts of US. I have no answers to resolve situation.

For the record, Section 8 waiting lists in the San Francisco Bay Area are only opened up about once every ten years or more. Tens of thousands of people apply, and unless the applicant is very young, they will never live long enough to actually get to the top of the waiting list.

Section 8 is not a housing option in the Bay Area.

 

[mom2four717]

This article describes some of the buildings history. I think it is interesting. The hole in the in the second story floor is addressed briefly.
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/What-life-was-like-for-Ghost-Ship-tenants-10788491.php

 

[McMunn]

That's what I had read too. I think the jumping out a window story is confused with the teens jumping from the loft. It's really hard to see just how much space the second floor was - I heard one reference to it as a mezzanine floor so who knows.

I can also imagine that as the pallet stairs burned the kids could have jumped down from the top of them. Oh, and I bet those kids were with the 17 year old who died - Draven McGill. Damn.

So I'm guessing that these were the ones who jumped out the window, and they're just referring to the building as lofts. The article certainly doesn't go into much detail, but since there is one witness who saw people jumping out of the windows, it was probably those two kids.

 

[Spellbound]

This article has a photo of a "kitchen" and one of a trailer.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/2-investigates/222317129-story

Thank you! I saw this a couple nights ago and then I could not find it again.

 

[SophieRose]

sbm^ Not sure if "Section 8 vouchers can be applied to any apartment building in Portland" (bbm) is accurate. Perhaps in Portland and/or St of Oregon.

Sec 8 program info below - re US gen'ly - is a bit confusing (to me).
".... landlords, although required to meet fair housing laws, are not required to participate in the Section 8 program. As a result, some landlords will not accept a Section 8 tenant. This can be attributed to such factors as:

• not wanting the government involved in their business, such as having a full inspection of their premises by government workers for HUD's Housing Quality Standards (HQS) and the possible remediations required[SUP][16][/SUP]
• a desire to charge a rent for the unit above FMR...."

"...Depending on state laws, refusing to rent to a tenant solely for the reason that they have Section 8 may be illegal.[SUP][17][/SUP] Landlords can use only general means of disqualifying a tenant (credit, criminal history, past evictions, etc.)." (bbm)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(housing)

IIRC ^ as an apt bldg owner, gen'ly in US, a person can choose to participate in Sec. 8 program or not. Can have some of his properties included in Sec8, but not all his properties. For his prop's in Sec8 program, he can't give preference in renting to a prospective non-Sec8 tenant over a prospective Sec8 tenant. That's how I'm reading it but could be all wrong, JM2cts.

Regardless, agreeing that housing for low inc folks may be unavailable, undesirable, or downright unsafe, unsanitary in many parts of US. I have no answers to resolve situation.

http://www.laneroa.com/Resources/Documents/Section 8 Source of Income FAQs.pdf

What is the new Oregon law regarding Section 8 and source of income protection?

Oregon law has long prohibited discrimination in rental or for-sale housing (including advertising the sale or rental of housing) on the basis of protected class status, including race, religion, national origin, sex,marital or familial status, and source of income. Prior to passage of HB 2639 in 2013, the “source of income” category explicitly excluded federal rent assistance,which primarily refers to the Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher program, which meant that Oregon landlords could refuse to rent to applicants, or even to consider them, just because they had a Section 8 voucher. HB 2639, passed under the leadership of House of Representatives Speaker Tina Kotek, removes that exception and explicitly states that federal or any other housing assistance is included in the source of income protection.

 

[Spellbound]

There are several in,one articles that say people jumped out of windows. I cannot believe we have not heard from them, though.

(Alameda County Sheriff's Sgt. Ray Kelly). As the fire spread, people jumped out of windows to escape, Kelly said.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/05/us/california-oakland-fire-ghost-ship-warehouse/

(Bob Mule, a photographer and artist who lives in the building and suffered minor burns.). When he escaped, he could see someone calling for help from a second-floor window and tried to get a ladder, “but they jumped out the window.”
http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/04/death-toll-reaches-24-in-oakland-warehouse-fire/

Some at the party upstairs, including a couple of high schools students who got separated from a friend when the lights went out, bypassed the rickety makeshift stairs and jumped from the loft in their haste to get out. Their friend never made it.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-oakland-warehouse-fire-survivors-20161210-story.html

 

[Spellbound]

Posters questioned earlier whether there was a fire outside the warehouse. According to this neighbor, there was a small fire:

A neighbor of the Ghost Ship warehouse, who saw it go up in flames, has claimed the blaze began in a junk yard belonging to the artists.


Nick Garcia, 21, said he first saw a little fire in the the empty lot next to the building which was full of RV parts, wood and welding equipment.


He told Daily Mail.com: 'We saw it a little bit start in the yard, and then within about five minutes the entire building was burning and then after that there was nothing. Within about five minutes of a little fire in the yard, the whole thing lit up and then it burned for like four hours.'


Nick said the building's windows had metal screens on making them impossible to use as an escape route.


'If you look at the outside of them they were bolted on metal mesh,' he said.


'There's no way, they couldn't even jump out of them if they wanted to. I know there was a way to get to the roof, because we've seen people on the roof.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-party-fire-dozens-missing.html#ixzz4Sg0YYY6W

 

[al66pine]

Adding to my prior response to this post.

.... In California and I think most states the apartment or home owner decides if they wan to accept housing vouchers. There is a large penalty in Portand for refusing voucher.
http://koin.com/2016/09/13/low-income-housing-vouchers-now-available/
The Section 8 vouchers can be applied to any apartment building in Portland if residents meet the necessary income requirements.

Gen'ly in US, wiki, for what it's worth:
"...Under the Section 8 Housing Voucher Program, participants can use the voucher to pay a portion of their rent. However, participation in the Section 8 Housing Voucher Program is voluntary for landlords.[SUP][4][/SUP] Landlords participating in the program are free to withdraw for many reasons. According to the Fair Housing Act. 42 U.S.C. § 3604, a landlord's withdrawal for reasons associated with their tenant's "race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin" would be an illegal act of discrimination.[SUP][5]" [/SUP]
^bbm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_in_awarding_Section_8_housing