GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

[Jax49]

Interesting note about the property taxes on the warehouse--half was paid (1st installment of 2) on December 6, 2016.

 

[Lilibet]

Respectfully, that is not an OK post

Of course it's OK to talk directly to the 10,000 who signed that petition! They ARE stupid!
JMO

 

[CARIIS]

CountingCrows' post was referring to the article Jax49 posted ---- 10,000 residents calling for a halt to inspections ---- not to Jax49.

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Oh I am so sorry!! I thought it was talking to a poster!! Forgive!!

 

[MsMarple]

RBBM

That seems to be the vacant lot (1305). The warehouse (1315) is appraised at $413,581 and the taxes are $6644.38.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. The rental income still covers the property tax, leaving a healthy profit. Do you know the original purchase price? I suck at finding this stuff. :blushing:

We have to let go of this - the way the property was faked sprinklers are not required.

CARIIS, it's really hard for me to let go of the notion of fire sprinklers. I understand that they might not have been required under the Oakland codes but ever since I watched the video you posted from The Station fire and read the NIST report I can't accept that any large building should be exempt from what I consider the best fire suppression.

Firefighters responded to the GS within 3 minutes and by then the entire building was already engulfed in flames. Sprinklers would have bought the occupants another 5 minutes or so - maybe enough time to get down those stairs and find their way out. Sprinklers may even have extinguished the fire. In 2013 a fire in a Brazil nightclub killed 231 people - no sprinklers. In 2015 The Colectiv nightclub in Romania burned, killing 64 people. No sprinklers.

Fire sprinklers save lives.

[video=youtube;W1pzuMtUiCQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1pzuMtUiCQ[/video]

 

[Jax49]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. The rental income still covers the property tax, leaving a healthy profit. Do you know the original purchase price? I suck at finding this stuff. :blushing:

No, I think I might have read it in MSM but can't find it now. If it is available online I don't know where.

Maybe someone else knows how to access it. Anyone?

 

[Lilibet]

IIRC the original purchase price was $45,000 when Ng bought it in the '90's, but I don't have a link. Just going from sketchy memory.

 

[JaimeSommers]

IIRC the original purchase price was $45,000 when Ng bought it in the '90's, but I don't have a link. Just going from sketchy memory.

Would this be why nothing can be found, or did officials release records after this was first published on December 6?

Oakland Officials Order Staff to Withhold Public Records Related to Ghost Ship Fire

https://www.google.com/amp/www.east...rds-related-to-ghost-ship-fire?media=AMP+HTML

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[Jax49]

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/22/oakland-ghost-ship-building-owner-hires-attorney/

The landlord of the Ghost Ship warehouse where 36 people perished in a fire earlier this month has retained a Southern California-based attorney.

 

[CARIIS]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. The rental income still covers the property tax, leaving a healthy profit. Do you know the original purchase price? I suck at finding this stuff. :blushing:



CARIIS, it's really hard for me to let go of the notion of fire sprinklers. I understand that they might not have been required under the Oakland codes but ever since I watched the video you posted from The Station fire and read the NIST report I can't accept that any large building should be exempt from what I consider the best fire suppression.

Firefighters responded to the GS within 3 minutes and by then the entire building was already engulfed in flames. Sprinklers would have bought the occupants another 5 minutes or so - maybe enough time to get down those stairs and find their way out. Sprinklers may even have extinguished the fire. In 2013 a fire in a Brazil nightclub killed 231 people - no sprinklers. In 2015 The Colectiv nightclub in Romania burned, killing 64 people. No sprinklers.

Fire sprinklers save lives.

[video=youtube;W1pzuMtUiCQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1pzuMtUiCQ[/video]

3:28 is unreal - never visualised it like that

While watching this I thought ok it would be expensive. So why dont they make something that buildings that don't require they have to make xx ADDITIONAL exits. I would think knocking down some walls could be done cheaply??




thanx for link it was really interesting and frustrating

I so agree they should be installed, everything is about money

 

[CARIIS]

Would this be why nothing can be found, or did officials release records after this was first published on December 6?

Oakland Officials Order Staff to Withhold Public Records Related to Ghost Ship Fire

https://www.google.com/amp/www.east...rds-related-to-ghost-ship-fire?media=AMP+HTML

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That is such BS in light of all the transparency promised 4x per day for 7 days.

 

[CARIIS]

No, I think I might have read it in MSM but can't find it now. If it is available online I don't know where.

Maybe someone else knows how to access it. Anyone?

I remember 45K too but from earlier link that was the vacant lot -- I think?

 

[CountingCrows]

Fire sprinklers save lives.

[video=youtube;W1pzuMtUiCQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1pzuMtUiCQ[/video]

Thank you for this very good video MsMarple.

Journalist asks:

"Aren't sprinklers though, a hedge against other things going wrong, against people that are doing things that are plain stupid?"​

That is what we are saying. Our security should not be left to any single individual. You are responsible, she is responsible, 100 others are responsible... But why do I need to worry if the person in charge is sane or insane, responsible in nature or plain nonchalant, an evil one or a good one, or a good one that went through one of a dozen of emotional calamities that might impair his/her judgement at that particular moment I am there, endangering my life? We should be able to rely on officials to enforce the law for us and keep us safe.

In that video, Floyd Jordan, Fire Chief in Miami Beach, Florida, worries about 60 nightclubs in his town. He says:

"We have to enforce the code. We cannot require sprinklers where the code does not say you have to require them."​

Granted, they are talking about sprinkler requirement for gatherings over 300 which was changed after Station Club fire.

But this is a very good example of how public can be protected by officials even if code is not even there yet. Since he cannot require sprinklers, the Fire Department inspects each club every week for occupancy limit and closes them down for the night if they are over, tests the curtains for fire-retardant properties on the spot. He lit a curtain with a lighter to test one (it did not burn)! When you want to do something, you can find a way.

Compare this attitude to Oakland one.... And considering there are 10K imbeciles running around ready to endanger their (and our) lives, it becomes apparent that laws and regulations need to be enforced for our safety, and the officials should do their jobs.

Again from Video:

"3 days from Rhode Island fire, there was a night club fire you didn't hear about. This is Minneapolis. There were pyrotechnics on stage, inferno in the ceiling and 150 people inside. But no one was hurt. The club had sprinklers."​

 

[LinasK]

From what this electrician friend of Derick's says, they all shared one meter.

Jake Jacobitz, who performed electrical work at the warehouse and occasionally stayed there, said breakers at the collective blew out often and the group’s leader Derick Almena would install his own electrical boxes. The power would come through a hole punched through the wall and tapped by anyone who needed it, Jacobitz said.

“The property owner [received] the bill so she would come to the artists; she would come to the mechanics shop; and she would come to the other little shops,” [City Councilman Noel] Gallo said last week. “She would say based on the bill I got you owe $200 this month, you owe me $300 and based on the bill you owe $50.”

http://sfist.com/2016/12/12/overloaded_electrical_line_named_as.php

That "power would come from a hole punched in the wall" is what they stole from the auto body business in the warehouse next door.

 

[LinasK]

Would this be why nothing can be found, or did officials release records after this was first published on December 6?

Oakland Officials Order Staff to Withhold Public Records Related to Ghost Ship Fire

https://www.google.com/amp/www.east...rds-related-to-ghost-ship-fire?media=AMP+HTML

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No, when I was at the Sheriff's Center for the victim's families with Gitana, I directly heard and saw Mayor Schaaf say she was releasing all the records.

 

[LinasK]

That is such BS in light of all the transparency promised 4x per day for 7 days.

Cariis, the transparency is there. I saw the stacks of documents and heard it directly from the mayor's lips. All this email states is that they want a spokesperson for OFD giving out the information, not just any old fireman, who may not know all the details.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Some of you folks are saying that since no permits were requested; Then the city could not be obligated for what happened.

But hold up.


There are plenty of vacant warehouses in my area.

So can I simply turn them into apartments and clubs without worrying about getting shut down since I never applied for permits while paying the owner bare rent?

 

[MsMarple]

I remember 45K too but from earlier link that was the vacant lot -- I think?

You may be right. I found a little more info on a blog - it's not msm so I can't link it and it should be considered rumor. However, it makes sense. Ng bought the building in 1997 for $130,000 from someone who may have been a relative. It noted that Ng also owns the vacant lot. 1305 is the address of the vacant lot. At one time there was a house there but it burned down in 1998 according to one Permit Complaint History doc. The GS is technically 1315. The auto place next door used 1309 when it was in business but there are no public records for that number. Derick painted 1305 on the GS, calling it Satya Yuga. Did he do it on purpose to stay under the radar or was he also confused?

Alameda county lists 1315 as parcel 25-690-10 and 1305 as 25-690-11 if anyone wants to look further into it. The blogger has screen shots of some of the real estate transaction history but I can't make out the doggone small print. Here's the link to the assessor's site - you can search on parcel number or street address.

https://www.acgov.org/assessor/resources/parcel_viewer.htm

So, the vacant lot is currently assessed at $43,909.00 and the GS is assessed at $413,581.00. Taxes for both total $8022/yr. Income from Derick Ion was $60,000.00/yr. Not a bad return on her investment. And according to msm Ng's real estate portfolio is worth about 5 million dollars. It looks like most if not all the properties have been in the family for a while.

 

[MsMarple]

Here we go - FIRST CIVIL LAWSUIT FILED

The complaint being filed by Alexander for the victim's family (David and Kimberly Gregory) alleges, among other factors:

The victim was "unable to exit."
The facility "lacked adequate and sufficient safety measures" and was "not up to fire protection and safety codes."
There was a "willful and conscious disregard for safety."
"The premises were in a dangerous and unsafe condition."

http://abc7news.com/news/first-civil-lawsuit-filed-in-ghost-ship-warehouse-fire--/1670353/
http://www.ktvu.com/oakland-warehouse-fire/225315356-story
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Family-of-Oakland-Ghost-Ship-fire-victim-to-file-10816035.php

The parents are holding a news conference at 2:30 PST today. That's 5:30 EST.

 

[MsMarple]

Correction; first two lawsuits filed:

OAKLAND — A San Francisco attorney plans to file the first lawsuits Friday on behalf of the families of a young man and woman who were killed in the deadly warehouse fire that claimed the lives of 36 people in Oakland earlier this month.

Mary Alexander will represent the families of 20-year-old San Francisco State student Michela Gregory and 23-year-old UC Berkeley graduate Griffin Madden.

From the building owner to the concert promoter, the master tenant to the city and the county, everyone bears some responsibility in the deadly warehouse fire, Alexander said. The suit expected to be filed Friday will name Chor Ng, the building owner; Derick Almena and Micah Allison, the husband and wife couple who operated the Satya Yuga arts collective inside the Ghost Ship warehouse; and Joel Shanahan, who goes by the name Golden Donna and who hosted the concert. Alexander said she would also file claims on Friday on behalf of the two victims’ families with the city of Oakland and Alameda County, the first step in filing a lawsuit against the public agencies.

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12...ts-to-be-filed-friday-for-ghost-ship-victims/

 

[human]

Some of you folks are saying that since no permits were requested; Then the city could not be obligated for what happened.

But hold up.


There are plenty of vacant warehouses in my area.

So can I simply turn them into apartments and clubs without worrying about getting shut down since I never applied for permits while paying the owner bare rent?

Yup, you can. Until someone discovers you and tells.