Identified! CA - Mendocino Co, 2 WhtFem Teens, Jul'79 *Francine Trimble & Kerry Graham*

[DrDMike]

Thank you so much!

new NCMEC links. Not sure what they did but none of the previous URLs have been working on any case I follow
NCMEC Girl
NCMEC Boy

Girl NamUs UP #10447
"Boy" NamUs UP #10450

The testing was very recent but the case will be updated.

 

[tatertot]

Does the previous DNA evidence that they were not maternally linked still stand? If so, I assume we should be looking for female friends who ran away together?

Some unrelated females who went missing in pairs prior to 1979:

Wendy Stevenson http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2242dffl.html
Peggy Rahn http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2241dffl.html
IMHO, very unlikely as they disappeared in 1969 and the circumstances don't match.

Mary Rachel Trlica http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/57dftx.html
Lisa Wilson http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/58dftx.html
Their heights are close, but Rachel had a chipped front tooth not mentioned on either UID and Lisa had "very few restorations," while the UID formerly thought to be male had none. Also, they were last seen with a third girl, Julie Ann Moseley.

Tammy Akers http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/36dfva.html
Angela Rader http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1563dfva.html
At 5 feet 2 inches, Angela was probably too short to be either UID.

Pamela Hobley http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3080dfmi.html
Patricia Spencer http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3081dfmi.html
Heights are closer, hair color matches, but the timing is off.

 

[FiveFelines]

Does the previous DNA evidence that they were not maternally linked still stand? If so, I assume we should be looking for female friends who ran away together, or at least half-sisters who share a father, paternally-related cousins?

Some non-related females who went missing in pairs prior to 1979:

Wendy Stevenson http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2242dffl.html
Peggy Rahn http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2241dffl.html
IMHO, very unlikely as they disappeared in 1969 and the circumstances don't match.

Mary Rachel Trlica http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/57dftx.html
Lisa Wilson http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/58dftx.html
Their heights are close, but Rachel had a chipped front tooth not mentioned on either UID and Lisa had "very few restorations," while the UID formerly thought to be male had none. Also, they were last seen with a third girl, Julie Ann Moseley.

Tammy Akers http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/36dfva.html
Angela Rader http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1563dfva.html
At 5 feet 2 inches, Angela was probably too short to be either UID.

I was coming here to suggest Tammy and Angela. If the lower end of the height range for the original female UID is 5'3", I think one inch is negligible. I know there is a suspect in their disappearance, but I still think they could be worth checking out.

 

[DrDMike]

Does the previous DNA evidence that they were not maternally linked still stand? If so, I assume we should be looking for female friends who ran away together?

Some non-related females who went missing in pairs prior to 1979:

Wendy Stevenson http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2242dffl.html
Peggy Rahn http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2241dffl.html
IMHO, very unlikely as they disappeared in 1969 and the circumstances don't match.

Mary Rachel Trlica http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/57dftx.html
Lisa Wilson http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/58dftx.html
Their heights are close, but Rachel had a chipped front tooth not mentioned on either UID and Lisa had "very few restorations," while the UID formerly thought to be male had none. Also, they were last seen with a third girl, Julie Ann Moseley.

Tammy Akers http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/36dfva.html
Angela Rader http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1563dfva.html
At 5 feet 2 inches, Angela was probably too short to be either UID.

They were not related. I also wouldn't assume they ran away together. They could have been kidnapped separately a la Ariel Castro.

 

[DrDMike]

Here is an article about the other murders in the next county.
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2288099-181/unsolved-but-not-forgotten

 

[Roselvr]

The testing was very recent but the case will be updated.

I'm on the cell; so can't grab my post about his/soon to be changed to her DNA comments before NamUs hid them. It said insufficient amount to profile or something to that effect... Does this mean she was exhumed & they now will have a DNA profile?

If they have raw data; there are genealogy databases they can upload to for free. I can provide info if LE are interested

 

[JupiterAmmon]

I wonder what led authorities to initially believe the remains were male?

Reminds me of the case of Thomas Billy Lee Tillery whose skull was thought to be female, hence he remained Unidentified for many years, even though the remains were found only a few miles from where Tillery went missing from.

Hopefully with this new development, the case may be more speedily resolved.

 

[CarlK90245]

That also happened with Elizabeth Ernstein (14) or Redlands CA. She went missing in March 1968, and her remains were found in May 1969 in a shallow grave in Wrightwood CA. But the remains were thought to be male and 18-20 years old. She remained unidentified until 2012.

There is very little skeletal distinction between males and females until about the age of about 14-15.

 

[dogperson]

Are they still absolutely certain these two are not at all related? I would have thought the DNA testing would have shown the sex of these UIDs unless they only tested mitochondrial.

 

[carbuff]

With remains that old, it's quite likely they could only obtain mtDNA. That would also tell them whether they were related on the maternal sign, but says nothing about whether they might have the same father, or were cousins through the paternal line, etc.

 

[traacker13]

Alcala link possible???

 

[DrDMike]

Alcala link possible???

I think they looked at all the 'obvious' avenues including Bundy, Alcala, etc. I believe LEO is sitting on information that makes them believe that these murders were not their 'styles.'

 

[Roselvr]

Or would isotope testing be an option to see what regions there were from? How much does normally cost?

Smithsonian usually donates this service IIRC. Knox county TN had it done for 2

 

[carbuff]

Smithsonian usually donates this service IIRC. Knox county TN had it done for 2

They recently donated services for another case I follow. It was reported there that the cost would be around $1-1.5 million for the testing if they charged for it.

 

[Roselvr]

Carl; can you update the very 1st post for anyone new clicking on it or for anyone following the post that may miss where DrDMike posted the info? I have it below as well as the links.

Huge huge huge huge development that I just found out........
Both of these kids were female. Spoke with the case manager and he said they recently did DNA testing and it showed that it was not one male and female but both were female.
Also, he said that he is certain the peoples temple was not involved and there were other alike murders in other counties but they can not link them. I asked if they could be foster kids and he said maybe but more likely runaways.

New NCMEC links. Not sure what they did but none of the previous URLs have been working on any case I follow
NCMEC Girl
NCMEC Boy

Girl NamUs UP #10447
"Boy" NamUs UP #10450

 

[Roselvr]

Brought over from NV - Henderson, "Arroyo Grande" WhtFem 258UFNV, 14-25, Oct'80 *GRAPHIC*

Charley Project just created a new casefile for Kerry Graham, and included a better photo.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/graham_kerry.html

She does have a 7-8 gap. Now I see why they are interested in her as an Arroyo Grande possible, though her resemblance to AGJD is kind of iffy. And if her listed height is correct, she would be too short.

Searching for more details about Kerry Ann Graham...

Seems it is thought that she left on her on accord with a female friend. But no information is available about the friend - except to say that neither of the two girls have been seen since. Wonder who this other girl is -- can't find any other female reported missing from Forestville, CA. hmmmm....

Both girls had ties to New Jersey and Halifax, Nova Scotia.

In her M&EC Prolife it states...
Kerry was last seen on December 24, 1979. She may be with a female companion. They may have traveled to New Jersey. When Kerry was last seen she had blonde highlights in her hair. She has freckles, pierced ears, and a scar on her left arm from the removal of a cancerous growth. It also states that Kerry was a smoker in 1979.
http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMC/1225186/1
Hair color is listed as auburn and eyes are listed as green. It would be great to see Kerry with her natural hair color, auburn. I have to admit that there are quite a few similarities, IMO.

What if they have her missing date wrong where she was actually last seen Christmas eve 1978? We have no clue who the friend is; but this case is 2 girls. I do not follow either case; but am throwing out for you guys.

 

[carbuff]

There's certainly a strong resemblance.

 

[Roselvr]

There's certainly a strong resemblance.

I thought so too; that's why I brought it here for those that follow the thread. I think the date should be questioned and a rule out done.

 

[traacker13]

I opened up The charley project this morning and immediately thought of this case when I say this girl. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/rodgers_kathleen.html

Kathleen looks a lot like the original drawn image of the UID but I noticed that the reconstruction and the drawn image vary quite a bit (especially in regards to their nose size/shape) so who knows which one is more accurate....

Kathleen Edna Rodgers

 

[carbuff]

Many aspects of the nose can only be inferred from the skull, so the shape of the tip etc. is only an approximation. The lips/mouth are also often approximate, too. There might clues in the bone where the muscles attach, but generally there's not much information to go on.

Which is to say that a discrepancy there isn't too significant.