CA - Multiple casualties after 'active shooter' opens fire, Thousand Oaks, 08 Nov 2018

[Breezie]

War vet with PTSD stormed bar almost 5 years to the day of his divorce

This article brings up the fact that this week is the fifth anniversary of the week his divorce was finalized. It is also right before the holiday season which can be a difficult time of year for some people.

 

[Breezie]

Country bar gunman 'posted on Instagram during massacre' | Daily Mail Online

He posted on social media while at the bar.

 

[Breezie]

A former classmate of Long's tells TMZ, Long was bullied in high school. She says his fellow students made fun of him because he had a lazy eye, and it affected him deeply. The classmate says a lot of those students go to that bar on Wednesday nights. She says he knew some of the people who teased him would be there.


Thousand Oaks Bar Shooter Ian Long Posted on Instagram During Killings

 

[not.a.muggle]

Country bar gunman 'posted on Instagram during massacre' | Daily Mail Online

He posted on social media while at the bar.

His Facebook post read: 'I hope people call me insane... (laughing emojis).. wouldn't that just be a big ball of irony?

'Yeah.. I'm insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is 'hopes and prayers'.. or 'keep you in my thoughts'... every time... and wonder why these keep happening...'

 

[not.a.muggle]

I want to mention this here, please remove if it's not allowed. I suffered from childhood trauma plus a severe concussion from a car accident when I was ~5. Both definitely changed my brain. I have PTSD and tried talk therapy for years. It wasn't until I found ART when I got relief. I believe that it saved my life and I wish more people knew about it.

Accelerated Resolution Therapy - Treating Trauma

Also, I haven't looked into the laws in CA, but I lived in FL for four years and this was commonly used by people around me (I'm involved in helping people with substance abuse and mental health issues). I don't know much about laws or policies around the country, but I think more states need something like this. It might just be a temporary fix, but it could also allow time for people to get the treatment they need to change the trajectory of their lives.

Baker Act

"The Baker Act is a Florida law that enables families and loved ones to provide emergency mental health services and temporary detention for people who are impaired because of their mental illness, and who are unable to determine their needs for treatment...People who require the use of the Baker Act have often lost the power of self-control, and they are likely to inflict harm to themselves or others."

 

[rosemadderlake]

“I hope they call me insane… (laughing emojis) wouldn’t that just be a big ball of irony?” Ian David Long, 28, wrote around the time of Wednesday’s attack, law enforcement officials told CNN.

“Yeah… I’m insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is ‘hopes and prayers’.. or ‘keep you in my thoughts’… every time… and wonder why these keep happening…”

---
^^^ this sounds like a sullen, demented, stunted juvenile.

Sometimes I wish we could rewind the time machine back to before the Internet. -- To the dance clubs, concerts, schools, theaters, houses of worship, shopping malls, marathons, and yoga studios before they were regular targets.

There's a lot of hate being spewed in the Internet public square that seems to have escalated.

In addition to a deranged mental state, what the current mass murderers seem have in common are various forms of hate expression, isolation, and the red flags of publicizing?

And when they are still not noticed, or are written off, they are unwilling to see any other alternative in their minds eye before pulling the trigger.

Yes, of course, there are cases of horrendous mental health problems, some very obvious like the Aurora theater, sandy hook, Giffords, murderers to name a few.

What is scary is that this happened in a very gun restricted state just as easily as it happens in a permissive one.

Sometimes I think our understanding of terrorism is still nascent. Its methods, and horrific images are readily available to anyone. Its method of some perceived form of martyrdom is appealing.

I saw a program on a school that in addition to regular monitoring, is implementing an artificial intelligence scanner that detects guns, and warns internally, and LE in real time.

I think this technology will become more sophisticated. What if a shooter could be caught before ever making it into any soft target? What if the surprise element was turned around on the shooter?

We see new amazing technology developing now in home security.

My problem with good guy with a gun is willingness and training. Asking someone to live with themselves if they kill innocents in a crowd by mistake while going after the bad guy. --So many not prepared especially in an ambush. And, that is also why it's safer to be on Times Square on NYE.

All that said, there are heroes in every single one of these tragedies. But they should never have to be tested like this in the first place.

We are not going to resolve this human crisis quick enough by trying to legislate it, right? But maybe there is a way to outsmart it another way. If we can see the smallest details from space...

 

[Inthedetails]

delete.

(Nothing I try to write about this case comes off right. It's so hard to get a grip on why this keeps happening. It's not ONE problem with ONE solution, imo. It's bigger than that...and next to impossible to form the words for any of it.)

 

[Cryptic]

When the person who commits mass murder like this is middle eastern it is assumed he's inherently evil.

All I see everywhere after shootings like this are "we need to do more for mental health."

That's an excuse. He's being excused for being mentally ill and having PTSD.

(And BTW, this guy is reported as being odd and disrespectful prior to joining the miliatary). The Latest: Calif. shooting survivor was at Vegas massacre

Very good points. My bet is that this shooter and Stephen Paddock, the Las Vegas massacre shooter will have very similar personality traits:

- Neither had criminal records to speak of

• Both were described as being over "odd" in the sense that they were over all shallow, rude, disrespectful etc., but not sociopathic
  
  
• Both were described as being relatively aggressive, but not criminally so

Likewise my guess is that this shooter, like Stephen Paddock, will be described as being self-important, but not truly narcissistic and also to be controlling, but not truly exploitive.

In short, I think both men could be summarized as low to mid-level jerks. We have all known people like this. The significant majority of low to mid-level jerks nerve seriously physically harm anyone, let alone go on rampages. Yet some do. The big question is why?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

delete.

(Nothing I try to write about this case comes off right. It's so hard to get a grip on why this keeps happening. It's not ONE problem with ONE solution, imo. It's bigger than that...and next to impossible to form the words for any of it.)

I feel the same. Trying to write my thoughts about this is about the same as explaining how to unwind a knotted up ball of yarn.

 

[margarita25]

Ian David Long: What we know about the gunman in the Thousand Oaks bar shooting - CNN

O.M.G.

 

[fred&edna]

People like this exist all over the world. What is the difference that there are not mass shootings ?

BTW, there is a big approach to helping with these very issues, It is called Adverse Childhood Experiences.

Anyone who is interested can google and see the proactive steps being taken to deal with children in trauma and hopefully adults.

War is trauma. People are not meant to kill. People have to be stripped down and then reprogrammed. It does not work really well.

I've been trying to remember where I previously heard/read about Adverse Childhood Experiences... finally it came to me... James Garbarino. 'Seems I discovered him after listening to a podcast (maybe Sword & Scale - Joseph McEnroe trial??) Anyway, thank you for mentioning ACE's. I've got more reading to do!

 

[rsd1200]

I think we all want to understand how someone could do something like this. So horrific! Are they insane? This is an interesting article.

Are Mass Murderers Insane? Usually Not, Researchers Say

Are Mass Murderers Insane? Usually Not, Researchers Say

Thank you, LDRN. I tend to agree with much of this line of thinking. I do think, when their thinking "devolves", so to speak, for lack of a better term, a switch flips, of sorts, and fantasy turns into reality. The fantasy that they have already been simmering on, and replaying, over and over, for weeks, months, or maybe even years, easily become reality.

Imo; When these shooters set their plans into motion, they're likely all jacked up, about another, recent, either real, or perceived, injustice, and it is the one that breaks the proverbial camel's back. There's no going back, then, once their fantasy has been set into real life motion. Hope that makes sense. It may not be true for all cases, but I think it may be the case, for quite a few.

Analyzing his database, Dr. Stone has concluded that about 65 percent of mass killers exhibited no evidence of a severe mental disorder; 22 percent likely had psychosis, the delusional thinking and hallucinations that characterize schizophrenia, or sometimes accompany mania and severe depression. (The remainder likely had depressive or antisocial traits.)

“The majority of the killers were disgruntled workers or jilted lovers who were acting on a deep sense of injustice,” and not mentally ill, Dr. Stone said of his research.

In a 2016 analysis of 71 lone-actor terrorists and 115 mass killers, researchers convened by the Department of Justice found the rate of psychotic disorders to be about what Dr. Stone had discovered: roughly 20 percent.

 

[margarita25]

This mass killer had mental issues before he became a Marine, according to some of his high suchool teachers and friends.

Im reminded of any kind of disorder, such as OCD, which can genetic/biological components yet, under the right condictions, can be exacerbated and/or come out of dormancy with the combination of just the right variables/influences such as stress, etc. Just like a hurricane that forms but needs certain variables/conditions.

 

[Inthedetails]

Thank you, LDRN. I tend to agree with much of this line of thinking. I do think, when their thinking "devolves", so to speak, for lack of a better term, a switch flips, of sorts, and fantasy turns into reality. The fantasy that they have already been simmering on, and replaying, over and over, for weeks, months, or maybe even years, easily become reality.

Imo; When these shooters set their plans into motion, they're likely all jacked up, about another, recent, either real, or perceived, injustice, and it is the one that breaks the proverbial camel's back. There's no going back, then, once their fantasy has been set into real life motion. Hope that makes sense. It may not be true for all cases, but I think it may be the case, for quite a few.

It seems like planning is a big part of the process, and a part that takes a long time and is (I am assuming) somehow a rewarding process - the whole fantasy part that is then put into action. And, it seems that the perp get stuck on the final act without realizing that yes, the world reacts....but the world also keeps turning and moves on. That moving on part seems lost in the perp's equation.

jmo

 

[x_files]

I was hospitalised for two weeks when I was ten months old. My mother was not allowed to visit me but I did not grow up traumatised by that and I certainly did not ever think of being violent to anyone.
I know that different situations affect people differently, but such a difference?

genetics, DNA and nature/nurturing?
I don't know. I'd really love to know what makes some people more prone to outbursts of rage and violence.

 

[x_files]

I personally think there may be contributing brain issues MOO so I’m all about that discussion whether it be trauma, or chemical imbalance, etc etc Moo. Sorry very loose statement, meaning these people aren’t normal. Obviously. Pittsburgh Mayor Iirc and Ventura Sheriff just said the same darn thing about to trying to rationalize the irrational.

I feel the same way about people who rape and kill kids. Somethin ain’t right in their heads and hearts.

So according to these statistics, 1 in 100 of the general public are severely mentally ill, whereas 1 in 5 mass killers are mentally ill.

1 in 100 seems very high. So in a crowded nightclub, there are going to be 3 to 6 severely mentally ill people there with you?

sounds about right. I worked in a nightclub for many years and it feels more like 100 out of 500 are seriously disturbed.

 

[x_files]

How utterly depressing and infuriating is it that statistically in the US you can survive one mass shooting only to be killed in another. I'm just so sad and angry right now.

Did the shooter, know that survivors hung out there and that's why he targeted it? Were they a group of friend's that went to Vegas together or did they form a bond back in CA?
Was it a support group that hung out together? What are the odds of this happening twice to them?!

 

[not.a.muggle]

Did the shooter, know that survivors hung out there and that's why he targeted it? Were they a group of friend's that went to Vegas together or did they form a bond back in CA?
Was it a support group that hung out together? What are the odds of this happening twice to them?!

I believe individuals or smaller groups met back in CA, after the Vegas shooting, when Borderline held a benefit concert for five local people who were killed on 10/1/17. They appear to be a support group.

Some Thousand Oaks victims survived mass shooting in Las Vegas, reports say

"A lot of people in the Route 91 situation go here," Chandler Gunn, 23, told the LA Times. "

 

[x_files]

I believe individuals or smaller groups met back in CA, after the Vegas shooting, when Borderline held a benefit concert for five local people who were killed on 10/1/17. They appear to be a support group.

Some Thousand Oaks victims survived mass shooting in Las Vegas, reports say

"A lot of people in the Route 91 situation go here," Chandler Gunn, 23, told the LA Times. "

ok, wow. Makes more sense now. So, my bet is the shooter purposely targeted this bar for that specific reason.

 

[Breezie]

Did the shooter, know that survivors hung out there and that's why he targeted it? Were they a group of friend's that went to Vegas together or did they form a bond back in CA?
Was it a support group that hung out together? What are the odds of this happening twice to them?!

That might have been part of the reason but he had been going
to that bar for awhile and was considered a regular there.

Thousand Oaks Bar Shooter Ian Long Posted on Instagram During Killings

A former classmate of Long's tells TMZ, Long was bullied in high school. She says his fellow students made fun of him because he had a lazy eye, and it affected him deeply. The classmate says a lot of those students go to that bar on Wednesday nights. She says he knew some of the people who teased him would be there.

We're told he was a regular at the bar, usually keeping to himself ... grabbing a beer and sitting at the bar.



Thousand Oaks mass shooting survivor: "My friend killed my other friends" - CBS News

This article is about one of Ian’s friends who was at the bar.

Todd Stratton, who was at the bar with two friends who died, said he was in "disbelief" because he's known Long for years.

CBS NEWS
"My friend killed my other friends, and I was just there to see it all happen," Stratton said. "I didn't think that he was the type of person that would do this, and I don't understand it."