CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981

[eve]

A hired hand is true for normal procedure. But in an emergency the captain has a legal obligation.

I don't see why you keep saying RW's getting a free pass. I'm not talking about RW. I'm talking about DD's story not making any sense.

Exactly. You don't talk about RW. He hasn't ever said much but seems clear he waited hours to call authorities. He was her husband. This is the sticking point to me. If you aren't giving him a pass, how do you view his role in what we know?

If this is the kind of emergency I think it was, that captain carried much guilt for all that occurred and went along with cover-up mode. It wasn't that he didn't know his duty.

Eve

 

[Chewy]

I think that he feels horribly guilty because he assumed she went to shore or to another boat.

This is corroborated by the testimony of the people who showed up, the Captain's original and second statements. The Captain said the RW acted as if he knew NW went to shore.

I think he got disgusted by her that weekend. She seemed "<modsnip>' and he was angry with CW. The fact that CW was on the boat with them and DD stayed in the hotel with NW shows RW wasn't this insanely angry jealous guy. She and he had issues of infidelity in the past.

I think RW didn't know something was wrong until it was late. If he thought she went to shore then he wouldn't look for her, and he didn't. But after a certain period of time he did. Seems to me he felt guilty because he assumed wrong and that led to her death.

 

[eve]

I think that he feels horribly guilty because he assumed she went to shore or to another boat.

This is corroborated by the testimony of the people who showed up, the Captain's original and second statements. The Captain said the RW acted as if he knew NW went to shore.

I think he got disgusted by her that weekend. She seemed "<modsnip>' and he was angry with CW. The fact that CW was on the boat with them and DD stayed in the hotel with NW shows RW wasn't this insanely angry jealous guy. She and he had issues of infidelity in the past.

I think RW didn't know something was wrong until it was late. If he thought she went to shore then he wouldn't look for her, and he didn't. But after a certain period of time he did. Seems to me he felt guilty because he assumed wrong and that led to her death.

Well, I always liked him on tv and screen, so I hope this is true. I just find it very hard to believe a woman who feared water as she did would have gone off the boat voluntarily after drinking, in the dark, and even after a fight, and especially in her nightgown and socks and a down jacket. That is what you wear when you are going to bed and have to go out in the cold for a few minutes, not when you are boat-hopping or going ashore. They said it was a flannel nightgown and wool socks, too. I just cannot believe that she climbed into the dinghy like that, but who knows? Without knowing for sure, RW clearly did the wrong thing and I can see why he feels guilty. On water any missing person requires immediate investigation and assistance, without confirmation that the person is accounted for, you don't mess around. He and DD were both culpable in this, imo. Remember the dinghy as found had locked oars and the key was on off. Boaters always keep the keys in the dinghy ignition, and most who topple from dinghies do so when it is turned on, running.

Eve

 

[Chewy]

Well, I always liked him on tv and screen, so I hope this is true. I just find it very hard to believe a woman who feared water as she did would have gone off the boat voluntarily after drinking, in the dark, and even after a fight, and especially in her nightgown and socks and a down jacket. That is what you wear when you are going to bed and have to go out in the cold for a few minutes, not when you are boat-hopping or going ashore. They said it was a flannel nightgown and wool socks, too. I just cannot believe that she climbed into the dinghy like that, but who knows? Without knowing for sure, RW clearly did the wrong thing and I can see why he feels guilty. On water any missing person requires immediate investigation and assistance, without confirmation that the person is accounted for, you don't mess around. He and DD were both culpable in this, imo. Remember the dinghy as found had locked oars and the key was on off. Boaters always keep the keys in the dinghy ignition, and most who topple from dinghies do so when it is turned on, running.

Eve

I agree. You know, I just thought of something. If she had a drinking problem maybe she went to get the extra bottle of wine out of the dingy. RW had smashed the other bottle.

I agree with the outfit being something for her to go out to get something.

 

[eve]

I agree. You know, I just thought of something. If she had a drinking problem maybe she went to get the extra bottle of wine out of the dingy. RW had smashed the other bottle.

I agree with the outfit being something for her to go out to get something.

Possibly. She is fueled by liquid courage, wanting more and a good deal of anger. She thinks has been in the dinghy enough that she can manage to retrieve the bottle. Or, she went to ask DD to get it? (Because I still think she was a true water-phobe).

Eve

 

[redheadedgal]

I noted that the we keep referring to as The Captain, referred to himself as a skipper on the Splendour that night. Is it possible that Wagner, himself, has maritime experience and wore the Captain's hat on the Splendour? (RW adamantly claimed "get off MY boat" this might connote a hierarchical position, as it's been stated she owned it.) I know that Skipper can also mean the same thing, but I'm curious about Wagner's boating status/licenses at that time, nonetheless.

- apparently both RW and NW sailed/captained the yacht* and the article below says she took the wheel "capably", so i'd assume the same would be true for RW

(see article for cute story re: "captain" and "first officer")

- they picked out the boat together but she called it "RJ's boat"

- friend says NW did not have a drinking problem

- friend says the couple were "very much" in love and mentions examples of their passion for one another

sadly it's this type of passion that can also produce great rage (the fighting, bottle smashing) like what occurred that night on the boat


http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20080951,00.html

*reading b/w the lines, plus there is no mention of having anyone else aboard to pilot the yacht for the trips the author writes about

 

[Chewy]

The one thing that has bothered me in all of this is why should would go near the dingy at all?

Perhaps after her death in order not to tarnish her reputation, RW and CW didn't mention that she had a drinking problem, but others have confirmed that she did.

Sounds like everyone was drunk.


I do know many people who have drinking problems and when intoxicated they often do irrational crazy things.

The more I think about it, the more the simple idea that she went to the dingy to get the other bottle of wine makes sense. It's the only logical reason she'd go to the dingy.

If the boat was banging she would have asked the captain to fix it. Many alcoholics try to hide their drinking and so maybe she didn't want to let the captain know she was getting more wine so she snuck off. Then as she's trying to get back out of the dingy she slipped and fell into the water.

A good detail would be if the bottle was found in the dingy as well. Was it still there?

If not it would definitely back up the idea. But even if it was still in the dingy she could have slipped in the water as she was trying to retrieve it.

 

[eve]

The one thing that has bothered me in all of this is why should would go near the dingy at all?

Perhaps after her death in order not to tarnish her reputation, RW and CW didn't mention that she had a drinking problem, but others have confirmed that she did.

Sounds like everyone was drunk.


I do know many people who have drinking problems and when intoxicated they often do irrational crazy things.

The more I think about it, the more the simple idea that she went to the dingy to get the other bottle of wine makes sense. It's the only logical reason she'd go to the dingy.

If the boat was banging she would have asked the captain to fix it. Many alcoholics try to hide their drinking and so maybe she didn't want to let the captain know she was getting more wine so she snuck off. Then as she's trying to get back out of the dingy she slipped and fell into the water.

A good detail would be if the bottle was found in the dingy as well. Was it still there?

If not it would definitely back up the idea. But even if it was still in the dingy she could have slipped in the water as she was trying to retrieve it.

Do you have a link for the drinking problem "confirmation?"

Eve

 

[Pisces Cloud]

I've sometimes wondered too if she went after the bottle of wine that was supposedly left in the dingy and then slipped and fell in. Although, that still wouldn't change some of the reactions of the other people afterwards. I also don't think her going for the wine would necessarily make her an alcoholic, as a night of drinking can sometimes make people thirst for that bit more, especially if they've been feeling stressful.

Also, has anyone else heard the silly rumour that it might have had something to do with the death of William Holden? Supposedly, Wagner was called by Stefanie Powers in a panic after she'd accidentally killed Holden during an argument while he was drunk. Wagner then instigated a cover up and Wood allegedly knew and threatened to report them both. Just another instance of all the rumours surrounding this case that should have been lain to rest right at the beginning if the investigation had been more thorough.

 

[Cazzie]

I've sometimes wondered too if she went after the bottle of wine that was supposedly left in the dingy and then slipped and fell in. Although, that still wouldn't change some of the reactions of the other people afterwards. I also don't think her going for the wine would necessarily make her an alcoholic, as a night of drinking can sometimes make people thirst for that bit more, especially if they've been feeling stressful.

Also, has anyone else heard the silly rumour that it might have had something to do with the death of William Holden? Supposedly, Wagner was called by Stefanie Powers in a panic after she'd accidentally killed Holden during an argument while he was drunk. Wagner then instigated a cover up and Wood allegedly knew and threatened to report them both. Just another instance of all the rumours surrounding this case that should have been lain to rest right at the beginning if the investigation had been more thorough.

Oh geesh...so they would be "partners" in separate crimes (or negligence)?

IF true, is that why he chose her as co-star in Hart to Hart?

This all disgusts me to the max.

I hope that the current investigation into Natalie's death brings out the truth, whatever it is. And those to blame are punished accordingly.

 

[redheadedgal]

Do you have a link for the drinking problem "confirmation?"

i'd like to see one too. one from an official journalist/professional source.

 

[Chewy]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/starsandstories/8916750/Natalie-Woods-final-scene.html

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I found this when looking for info on Barbara Stanwyck's son, and thought of you guys. It brought me a good chuckle, especially since I saw RJWagner this weekend in an ad for "It Takes a Thief" DVD sets.

From Brian Cork Remembering Babara Stanwyck:

"And, it bothers me that Robert Wagner has written a crappy book and told the world that he had a love affair with Stanwyck almost 60 years ago. But, what can we expect from a smarmy &#8216;ol dude that hocks reverse mortgages on cable television?"

http://www.unsinkablebriancork.com/tag/dion-anthony-fay/


Underlining mine. :crazy: He also hocks reverse mortgages on network television. I know because I see him often, and I don't have cable.

Also, has anyone else heard the silly rumour that it might have had something to do with the death of William Holden? Supposedly, Wagner was called by Stefanie Powers in a panic after she'd accidentally killed Holden during an argument while he was drunk. Wagner then instigated a cover up and Wood allegedly knew and threatened to report them both. Just another instance of all the rumours surrounding this case that should have been lain to rest right at the beginning if the investigation had been more thorough.

You must have heard my mother screaming that from her rooftop for over two decades after those two deaths. My mother was convinced RW and SP wanted to get together and it was the "only way possible". When I reminded her that he eventually married JSJ, mom said, "Well, he had to. How do you think it would have looked if he'd married SP with all those children in his house?" Then she said the long wait between NW's death and the marriage to JSJ was because he was trying to make up his mind, needed a cooling off period, and he didn't want to look too guilty! Yep, she said that. For 25 years she said that and added new thoughts as his life events progressed.

I don't know. I always hoped LE would be more definitive in the findings of NW's death and settle the matter but I guess that wasn't to be. It sure ruined my viewing pleasure when I tried to watch Hart to Hart and my mother was around, like when we were all gathered at our 'family compound". :wink: We'd all sit around watching it, my husband, my kids, my parents, the rest of the gang, -- and there was my mother making groaning sounds.

Although, honestly, I haven't thoroughly enjoyed RJW's work since that dreadful Thanksgiving weekend.

the captain of the boat from which she disappeared spoke on America&#8217;s most prominent morning TV show and said he&#8217;d lied to the authorities at the time. He claimed that the actress&#8217;s husband was responsible, and refused to reveal any more.

And doesn't that beat all? The captain goes on TV, blames the husband, and refuses to reveal more information. I'm having trouble believing Mr. RJW is the only smarmy dude around.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/starsandstories/8916750/Natalie-Woods-final-scene.html

This above link again reinforces my thoughts about the loving sister, Lana.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Oh geesh...so they would be "partners" in separate crimes (or negligence)?

IF true, is that why he chose her as co-star in Hart to Hart?

This all disgusts me to the max.

I hope that the current investigation into Natalie's death brings out the truth, whatever it is. And those to blame are punished accordingly.

BBM

At the time of the deaths of William Holden and Natalie Wood (within weeks of each other), Hart to Hart had already been on the air about two years.

 

[eve]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/starsandstories/8916750/Natalie-Woods-final-scene.html

"A sexy movie star with a drink problem mysteriously drowns."

Hmmmm. This one line (proofread much?) doesn't cite any supporting details, though. I guess anyone who gets drunk has a drinking problem --- at the time. Just not sure this clinches it for me.

Eve

 

[Chewy]

I'm not saying 100 percent she had a drinking problem. I just think all the conspiracy theories out there are borderline ridiculous.

We've got RW and CW were having sex and NW walked in and in trauma ran away and drowned.

We've got RW beating her up and throwing her over the side of the boat. (even though if he did that don't you think her cries for help would have been "help me he's trying to kill me"_

We've got RW and Stephanie Powers in some mixed up murder scenario.

We've got RW laughing as NW struggles in the water, cackling madly and saying "leave her there teach her a lesson."

Or we've got a situation where NW is drunk and goes to retrieve another bottle of wine from the dingy and falls in.

My point in mentioning it at all is that it seems to be the simplest story. But maybe CW and RW started saying she went to tie up the dingy because they didn't want it to be a tabloid mess of exactly the headline above. That she got drunk and fell in the water and drowned.

Instead it was "she was woken and sleepy and went to tie up the dingy and fell in the water and drowned."


To me it's pretty simple looking. None of the testimony and evidence backs up DD's story. Yes RW didn't go look for her but IMO it was because he thought she went to shore and was embarrassed and he realizes his ego is basically what caused her to drown because if he had gone after her she may have been found in time. This is what I think he is guilty of and why he feels guilty. It also matches his statement that it was an accident.

I honestly think DD is making crap up at this point. I don't necessarily think he's lying but I think he's told himself this lie for so long he actually believes it.

I also do not believe the testimony from the other boat. It doesn't make sense that someone is going to tell them over the phone "Don't worry we'll send a helicopter out" that's just not normally done. They would have sent a boat.

I also don't see how they could have just gone back to bed. I personally think they actually heard NW and RW fighting. And woke up and then went back to bed, then the next day they realized what happened and thought "OMG I bet we heard her drowning" and then started embellishing.

I do hope they trace the calls to see if they ever called for help because I don't think they did.


I'm not even sure what your question is EVE are you seriously suggesting that if Natalie Wood didn't have a drinking problem then there is no way she could have gone to the dingy to retrieve the bottle of wine?

I have always wondered why she would go near the dingy. Makes no sense. The story that she wanted to tie up the dingy is ridiculous to me. She was a tiny little thing, the captain was on the boat she would have asked him to do it. She wasn't going to shore, she wasn't dressed appropriately for going to shore. She was dressed for going to get something on the boat.

Simplest answer, she went to get something out of the dingy which is why she went near the dingy. The only thing I could imagine her wanting is the wine. She was already drunk and so acting a bit careless and fell in. In trying to pull herself into the dingy she disloged it, or when she fell in the dingy was pulled away. Perhaps she knocked herself out and the down jacket acted like a life jacket and kept her bouyed up until she died.


Annnnd finally sorry so long. I think it is well known that NW had addictions. To painkillers etc and other things. Her father was an alcoholic and that runs in family's but I don't think I'm going to find "evidence" beyond her close friends and family an I guess just a bit of common sense. It's like Britney Murphy dying and everyone knowing she was an addict. Back then they covered for people much more.

 

[Columbo]

Brittany Murphy did not die of a drug overdose. She was not a drug addict. For awhile they thought she died from a mold-related respiratory disease since her house had mold in it, but the final determination was that it was a respiratory problem (like pneumonia) that advanced because she didn't see a doctor and tried to self-medicate, had poor eating and health habits.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellne...deaths-mystery-mold-coroner/story?id=11259720

 

[Chewy]

That's a whole other mystery since her husband died shortly after for similar reasons. And if she had gone to the hospital she wouldn't have died. But Britney Murphy was definitely a drug addict. Just because they get prescription drugs doesn't mean that they aren't addictive.

But yes I know it wasn't an overdose per se.

 

[Chewy]

Um no it means that a drug addict died of pneumonia. Just because she didn't die of an overdose doesn't mean she wasn't a drug addict. The point I made in mentioning it is that even though everyone knew she was an addict, you don't often find "documentation" of proof that someone is an addict unless they've admitted it or gone for treatment.

But people around them know. Right around when Michael Jackson died Perez Hilton was on a radio show when he was asked if he knew anyone who was going down the same path and he said "Brittany Murphy maybe."

This is exactly my point. So thanks for helping me to make it. Just because COD death doesn't list a drug addiction doesn't mean the person doesn't have one. But everyone around them who knew them close would protect their reputation.

Look at Amy Winehouse. Exactly the same point. Everyone knows that Amy Winehouse had major addiction problems but her family rallied around her and tried to protect her image by saying she didn't die of a drug overdose, that she was "sick." How far fetched is that? They even had toxicology reports done to protect her image and pointed out that no "ILLEGAL" drugs were found in her system. She was on prescription drugs and apparently died of alcohol poisoning. Poor thing. But the coroner listed it as "accidental" and "death by misadventure" etc.


But I can see RW and CW very quietly feigning confusion as to the reason why she went to the dingy or how she was behaving that night if she was drunk and fell into the water for that reason.

That's my point. And it would explain CW's silence on it and RW's appreciation of that silence. Also it would explain why he hesitated to go after her and finally changed his story years later to include more details about drinking and drugs and her behavior.

http://voices.yahoo.com/perez-hilton-predicted-brittany-murphys-death-5125189.html


http://www.eonline.com/news/amy_winehouses_cause_of_death/271628

 

[Cazzie]

Isn't Perez Hilton paparazzi, and possibly the epitome of making money off of "Hollywood gossip and rumors"? :waitasec: That's my impression, anyway, and I don't think I'm alone.

Wouldn't the idea of accusing DD of attempting to make money off the Natalie Wood tragedy/mystery seem a bit hypocritical if also using Perez Hilton as a reliable and legitimate source of true "inside" info about another actor? :waitasec: Especially when DD was by many accounts a friend...even a confidante...of Natalie's...who most assuredly (IMO) spent vastly more time with Natalie (and RW) than Perez probably ever spent with Brittany. JMO.

Seems like apples vs. oranges to me. JMO.