CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

[SoCalDavidS]

I would like to live in a country where I can go to a Costco and not have to fear an off duty cop firing off 6+ shots against an unarmed family. But that's just me.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I would like to live in a country where I can go to a Costco and not have to fear an off duty cop firing off 6+ shots against an unarmed family. But that's just me.

Me too. I’m with u.

 

[mickey2942]

I would like to live in a country where I can go to a Costco and not have to fear an off duty cop firing off 6+ shots against an unarmed family. But that's just me.

Exactly. And when will we get to the point when off duty police officers will be treated the same as other citizens?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If we accept that the Officer was pushed / attacked from behind with such force that he (the Officer) lost consciousness while holding his 18 month old child, it’s reasonable to consider that the child may have suffered some injuries upon meeting the floor. I haven’t seen anything in the media which speaks to that.

There's a lot that we haven't seen from the media.

For one I'd like to know what French did after knocking the officer down to the floor.

Did he stand still? Did he move backwards? Did he move towards the officer? Did he reach into his pants pocket and appear to remove something? Did he threaten the officer or the child? Did he turn and try to run away? JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

DBM

 

[foleybrau]

I keep coming back to my main question, which is why is the shooter being given so much benefit of the doubt? All this talk about being slapped, pushed, knocked to the ground, but NOTHING that I have seen to indicate that his "life was in danger." Where the hell is the equivalence of force in the response of pulling out a gun and starting to shoot everything in his immediate vicinity?

More excellent proof that we are NOT All Equal Under The Law. Of course, one only needs to look at our current government for reminders of that every single day.

Let's simply put aside the fact the shooter was an off-duty cop. Not so hard to do, right? His occupation should have no bearing since he was not working. Again, EQUAL Under The Law to Joe Schmo Average Citizen. Would this story fly then? If Joe Schmo gets knocked down at a Costco, is a fair response to pull out a weapon and start firing at someone who is unarmed? Would a Prosecutor buy the "fear for my life" excuse then? I doubt it. Perhaps the defense could argue that it was not premeditated, since the firing was unplanned, and the result of an altercation. There would certainly be much more sympathy for the victim, due to his disability, and the shooter would be viewed as a hothead who just got angered, and decided to pull out a gun and get "revenge" on his attacker.

There is no excellent proof of anything yet. This is just disdain for law enforcement

 

[mickey2942]

There is no excellent proof of anything yet. This disdain for law enforcement is tiring and political.

I support LEO 100%. When they are doing their jobs.

When they are off duty, and shoot folks at Costco, and are NOT arrested, I think that there is a bias here. And that is a problem.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Perhaps there's no probable cause that a crime has been committed and that's why the officer has not been arrested yet.

If there's evidence that supports a self defense case I would think that further investigation is warranted before an arrest is made. JMO

Probable cause for arrest exists when facts and circumstances within the police officer's knowledge would lead a reasonable person to believe that the suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. Probable cause must come from specific facts and circumstances, rather than simply from the officer's hunch or suspicion.

Probable Cause - FindLaw

 

[mickey2942]

Perhaps there's no probable cause that a crime has been committed and that's why the officer has not been arrested yet.

If there's evidence that supports a self defense case I would think that further investigation is warranted before an arrest is made. JMO


Probable Cause - FindLaw

The situation of even an on duty police officer shooting three people who are unarmed, to be questionable.

I am waiting for the decision from the district attorney. And LAPD has been very quiet here. No support from other officers either. Hmmm...

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The situation of even an on duty police officer shooting three people who are unarmed, to be questionable.

I am waiting for the decision from the district attorney. And LAPD has been very quiet here. No support from other officers either. Hmmm...

I find this case to be questionable too. I'm waiting for more answers. JMO

 

[mickey2942]

I find this case to be questionable too. I'm waiting for more answers. JMO

What? This is epic! We actually agree on something?!

I must mark this comment for history.

 

[PaperDoll]

Should a mentally disabled person who harms another get special treatment because they are mentally disabled?

 

[PaperDoll]

Wounded parents making strides in their recovery, attorney says"

Costco shooting: Wounded parents making strides in their recovery, attorney says

 

[mickey2942]

Should a mentally disabled person who harms another get special treatment because they are mentally disabled?

No. But is a response with lethal force appropriate?

We don't know, because evidence that is completely unbiased has not been presented for evaluation.

 

[musicaljoke]

Should a mentally disabled person who harms another get special treatment because they are mentally disabled?

Yes, I think that most countries make allowances for people who are not able to discern the implications of their actions.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Should a mentally disabled person who harms another get special treatment because they are mentally disabled?

If special treatment means not getting shot at and having your family shot at when you are all unarmed, then absolutely.

 

[wary]

I think that a possible scenario is:

1: a police officer, being suddenly and violently attacked, draws his weapon. Now his options are limited, because he must not allow that weapon to be taken away from him. (This is partially speculation. Based on what we’ve heard so far, I think a sudden and violent attack seems probable. We don’t have any evidence as to when the police officer drew his weapon. However, if someone attacks you without provocation, it’s fairly reasonable to expect more attacks, and to try to prepare for them.)

2: He announces that he’s a police officer. Since he’s out of uniform, no one has any particular reason to believe him. That probably doesn’t have anything to do with what follows. (Possibly just speculation.)

3: IF Mr. French advances on him, and we don’t yet have any evidence of that, Mr French has created a situation where the police officer must fire. Or, taking it back another step, the police officer, by drawing his weapon, has created a situation where he must fire, if his orders are not obeyed, and Mr French is not mentally capable of obeying.

All this is just my speculation.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

I think that a possible scenario is:

1: a police officer, being suddenly and violently attacked, draws his weapon. We don’t have any evidence as to when the police officer drew his weapon. However, if someone attacks you without provocation, it’s fairly reasonable to expect more attacks, and to try to prepare for them.)

2: He announces that he’s a police officer. Since he’s out of uniform, no one has any particular reason to believe him. That probably doesn’t have anything to do with what follows. (Possibly just speculation.)

3: IF Mr. French advances on him, and we don’t yet have any evidence of that, Mr French has created a situation where the police officer must fire.

He Was NOT A Police Officer. Replace each mention of the words "police officer" with "Citizen." He had no uniform, was not on duty, he was an ordinary citizen shopping at Costco. Why should his occupation have Anything to do with his actions? French had as much of an idea that he was a cop, as the Killer had that French was mentally disabled.

 

[wary]

He Was NOT A Police Officer. Replace each mention of the words "police officer" with "Citizen." He had no uniform, was not on duty, he was an ordinary citizen shopping at Costco. Why should his occupation have Anything to do with his actions? French had as much of an idea that he was a cop, as the Killer had that French was mentally disabled.

I believe that off duty police officers are considered to have responsibilities that ‘ordinary citizens’ do not have. Responsibilities to take action if they see crimes being committed, for example.

That is not an automatic excuse for what he did, but I believe—unless things have changed quite recently—that he was trained to believe that he was somewhat ‘on duty’ at all times.

PS, I couldn’t remember his initials, which is one reason I kept saying ‘police officer’ so obnoxiously many times.

 

[kaen]

I believe that off duty police officers are considered to have responsibilities that ‘ordinary citizens’ do not have. Responsibilities to take action if they see crimes being committed, for example.

That is not an automatic excuse for what he did, but I believe—unless things have changed quite recently—that he was trained to believe that he was somewhat ‘on duty’ at all times.

PS, I couldn’t remember his initials, which is one reason I kept saying ‘police officer’ so obnoxiously many times.

BBM for focus.

Either you are on duty or not at all times. You can't be somewhat on duty. If an officer is on duty at all times, they should never be drunk, act as a private person with all of the options that go along with it, etc. I just don't think officers can have it both ways. They are always on duty or on duty/off duty when their shift is over as it pertains to discharging their weapons. This was not a situation that he controlled well if he hit the floor, lost consciousness, became alert and started shooting. He put others at risk besides the dead man's family.

I am a highly trained first responder in my community as well as having another profession--- according to my training level, I have a duty to respond. But, I am not a cop and I don't carry a gun. I would be giving emergency care if the scene is safe.