Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

[Warwick7]

If LE was at the house, jackhammering, and sifting soil into baggies, what in hell's name, were they collecting?

Tell me we aren't waiting on identifications.

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thank you-- I saw Bakersfield and thought that was their previous home and where they were searching.
Strange still to find the Christmas gift bag off side of the road.
So sad !!
Still catching up, slowly

BBM
Uhm....not really if one was trying to plant a red herring.
Just amateur opinion and speculation of course.

 

[Bbybluz]

As I recognize many names from you talented members this case is reminding me of the 2 cases I started my sleuthing with (Gman & baby EB). I remember the quote I heard over & over “there are truths in the lies”.

I have been scratching my noggin a lot while just reading & keeping quiet but I thought I would get your thoughts on a few things.

I have only watched a reporter twice on this case & haven’t seen the interview with the AP’s yet. It was mentioned a bit that TW repeatedly mentioned “firewood”. My thoughts were to file this away to see if a “fire” or “wooded possibly burnt” area comes into play with LE.

The mentioning several times of the “gate” was being stored in my mind also to connect a “fenced in area” from LE elsewhere.

Another pondering moment for me that might clear itself up after I watch the interview is the description & position of the AM to the AD. My first thought was subservient to dominance when her distance behind & nervous rocking was included. Dominance with hands tucked can be used as intimidating, hiding &/or nervous restraint too.

For the jackhammers to be used that didn’t strike me odd IF LE wanted quick loose digging. The dirt in their backyard is nothing like Michigan dirt gesh it looks like cement! Dirt samples can also be used from the backyard to compare to soiled clothing shoe souls & even bugs, pollin & other desert stuff to form a timeline or whereabouts of individuals. Also on the News Reporter tonight he pointed out the motion sensor light on the side of the house. It would have popped on if children or a stranger would have triggered it close by the gate to the backyard.

Don’t you think the dogs would have picked up on a scent in the dirt if (ugh I hate to mention it) any remains/fragments were buried there? I tend to think they were looking for something else there &/or collecting samples.

Sorry for writing a book.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It was mentioned a bit that TW repeatedly mentioned “firewood”. My thoughts were to file this away to see if a “fire” or “wooded possibly burnt” area comes into play with LE.

The mentioning several times of the “gate” was being stored in my mind also to connect a “fenced in area” from LE elsewhere.
.

Respectfully snipped for focus and commentary response.
Both of these observations align with my Recycling Plant speculation

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dre]

As I recognize many names from you talented members this case is reminding me of the 2 cases I started my sleuthing with (Gman & baby EB). I remember the quote I heard over & over “there are truths in the lies”.

I have been scratching my noggin a lot while just reading & keeping quiet but I thought I would get your thoughts on a few things.

I have only watched a reporter twice on this case & haven’t seen the interview with the AP’s yet. It was mentioned a bit that TW repeatedly mentioned “firewood”. My thoughts were to file this away to see if a “fire” or “wooded possibly burnt” area comes into play with LE.

The mentioning several times of the “gate” was being stored in my mind also to connect a “fenced in area” from LE elsewhere.

Another pondering moment for me that might clear itself up after I watch the interview is the description & position of the AM to the AD. My first thought was subservient to dominance when her distance behind & nervous rocking was included. Dominance with hands tucked can be used as intimidating, hiding &/or nervous restraint too.

For the jackhammers to be used that didn’t strike me odd IF LE wanted quick loose digging. The dirt in their backyard is nothing like Michigan dirt gesh it looks like cement! Dirt samples can also be used from the backyard to compare to soiled clothing shoe souls & even bugs, pollin & other desert stuff to form a timeline or whereabouts of individuals. Also on the News Reporter tonight he pointed out the motion sensor light on the side of the house. It would have popped on if children or a stranger would have triggered it close by the gate to the backyard.

Don’t you think the dogs would have picked up on a scent in the dirt if (ugh I hate to mention it) any remains/fragments were buried there? I tend to think they were looking for something else there &/or collecting samples.

Sorry for writing a book.

So, I think initially they only used SAR dogs, and that is what led them to believe the boys had never spent time outside of the doors of the house. these dogs do NOT "hit" on cadaverine, whole different training.
On the other hand, could the FBI have been using cadaver dogs in their back yard search? I am sure the cadaver dogs went in that van, I just have not seen any indication that they might have had a cadaverine hit anywhere.

"truth is within the lies" is definitely a real thing, seeing between those lines can be tricky though. I wouldn't be surprised if after their interview where they referenced the yard 100 times the FBI had really thought there could have been something of evidentiary value somewhere back there.

too bad the police chief said they found nothing helpful in that search! moo

 

[MoeInVA]

If LE was at the house, jackhammering, and sifting soil into baggies, what in hell's name, were they collecting?

Tell me we aren't waiting on identifications.

JMO

Police chief stated nothing useful came of the “extensive” backyard dig. Maybe he didn’t have enough info to state that yet, but I took him on his word and don’t believe the kids are there. FWIW

 

[Dre]

Police chief stated nothing useful came of the “extensive” backyard dig. Maybe he didn’t have enough info to state that yet, but I took him on his word and don’t believe the kids are there. FWIW

Agree, I think he would have said "no comment" unless it really was fruitless. moo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

So, I think initially they only used SAR dogs, and that is what led them to believe the boys had never spent time outside of the doors of the house. these dogs do NOT "hit" on cadaverine, whole different training.
On the other hand, could the FBI have been using cadaver dogs in their back yard search? I am sure the cadaver dogs went in that van, I just have not seen any indication that they might have had a cadaverine hit anywhere.

"truth is within the lies" is definitely a real thing, seeing between those lines can be tricky though. I wouldn't be surprised if after their interview where they referenced the yard 100 times the FBI had really thought there could have been something of evidentiary value somewhere back there.

too bad the police chief said they found nothing helpful in that search! moo

"The Yard" Hmmmmmm. Which yard exactly is he referring to??????? The Yard at that address or another address in another town. I'm sure the FBI is checking. MOO

 

[Bbybluz]

So, I think initially they only used SAR dogs, and that is what led them to believe the boys had never spent time outside of the doors of the house. these dogs do NOT "hit" on cadaverine, whole different training.
On the other hand, could the FBI have been using cadaver dogs in their back yard search? I am sure the cadaver dogs went in that van, I just have not seen any indication that they might have had a cadaverine hit anywhere.

"truth is within the lies" is definitely a real thing, seeing between those lines can be tricky though. I wouldn't be surprised if after their interview where they referenced the yard 100 times the FBI had really thought there could have been something of evidentiary value somewhere back there.

too bad the police chief said they found nothing helpful in that search! moo

Aaahhhhh yes I was thinking of the wrong trained dogs oops, thank you. I agree with many here & don’t believe the boys moved to this home.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Police chief stated nothing useful came of the “extensive” backyard dig. Maybe he didn’t have enough info to state that yet, but I took him on his word and don’t believe the kids are there. FWIW

For them to take such dramatic action as to start excavating someone's backyard.....someone must have called in a tip IMO.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dre]

 

[dulcinea]

For the jackhammers to be used that didn’t strike me odd IF LE wanted quick loose digging. The dirt in their backyard is nothing like Michigan dirt gesh it looks like cement! Dirt samples can also be used from the backyard to compare to soiled clothing shoe souls & even bugs, pollin & other desert stuff to form a timeline or whereabouts of individuals. Also on the News Reporter tonight he pointed out the motion sensor light on the side of the house. It would have popped on if children or a stranger would have triggered it close by the gate to the backyard..

Respectfully snipped for space
The dirt here is definitely nothing like the dirt in Michigan! (I am originally from the west coast of MI and played in the dirt all the time growing up.) I now live in so Cal. This past summer we had our backyard landscaped. Previously it was just so Cal dirt and tumble weeds. I've tried to dig in it and you don't get very far. When our yard was being worked on, they brought in a rototiller. It didn't work! The soil was so compacted that they ended up renting a HUGE one that looked so out of place. I assume the dirt in their backyard was pretty similar, as that is just desert dirt in general. I don't like saying this, but that's why many desert homicide victims are found in shallow graves. You really can't dig too far down. Also, trying to cover up your tracks is difficult. You can't really just fill in the hole and tamp the dirt down with your feet without making it pretty obvious there is a disturbance there unless you're in a sandy area.
If the family just moved in in September, did they have cement poured? If it was already there when they moved in I'm not sure why a jackhammer would be needed. Curious. If it was done recently, how recently? (Just thinking aloud here.)

 

[Ontario Mom]

I have to wonder, what are the odds a Christmas gift bag with one of the boy's names on it, would turn up in a search of the desert near the boy's home?
I don't think it's a stretch to call this extremely and suspiciously coincidental.

jmo

 

[charminglane]

Car seats in the van?
That is what I would like to know.

 

[Bopit]

I have to wonder, what are the odds a Christmas gift bag with one of the boy's names on it, would turn up in a search of the desert near the boy's home?
I don't think it's a stretch to call this extremely and suspiciously coincidental.

jmo

Benefit of the doubt that they bought it for their kid, how did it get into the desert? Fall out of a garbage bin? blow out the door in the wind? Schools aren't giving out loot bags or holiday goodies, so it would theoretically be from the parents. Even trying to come up with reasons for it being out there is exhausting. Hope they crack this case soon.

 

[susiQ]

Benefit of the doubt that they bought it for their kid, how did it get into the desert? Fall out of a garbage bin? blow out the door in the wind? Schools aren't giving out loot bags or holiday goodies, so it would theoretically be from the parents. Even trying to come up with reasons for it being out there is exhausting. Hope they crack this case soon.

I noticed in a couple of videos concerned citizens leaving stuffed animals, balloons and even gift bags at the house. Is it possible one got displaced or blown into the field? I don’t know but it would be very strange otherwise if this is true. JMO

 

[Jo in Calif]

I have to wonder, what are the odds a Christmas gift bag with one of the boy's names on it, would turn up in a search of the desert near the boy's home?
I don't think it's a stretch to call this extremely and suspiciously coincidental.

jmo

Not to mention the pretty good rain we got on Monday, 5 days before the search.

 

[ruffday]

Benefit of the doubt that they bought it for their kid, how did it get into the desert? Fall out of a garbage bin? blow out the door in the wind? Schools aren't giving out loot bags or holiday goodies, so it would theoretically be from the parents. Even trying to come up with reasons for it being out there is exhausting. Hope they crack this case soon.

I'm a teacher in California and I did give my students holiday goodie bags. But these kids are too young to be in school unless they are in a Special Education preschool.

 

[Megnut]

Benefit of the doubt that they bought it for their kid, how did it get into the desert? Fall out of a garbage bin? blow out the door in the wind? Schools aren't giving out loot bags or holiday goodies, so it would theoretically be from the parents. Even trying to come up with reasons for it being out there is exhausting. Hope they crack this case soon.

It was suggested upthread that the gift bag might be a blow-away, from any public display of support for the babies.....

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I have to wonder, what are the odds a Christmas gift bag with one of the boy's names on it, would turn up in a search of the desert near the boy's home?
I don't think it's a stretch to call this extremely and suspiciously coincidental.

jmo

Yes, I'm not sure I trust everything the people in the community say, especially after seeing them interrupt the interview with the parents, trespass on the property and throw rocks at the windows.

I hope the person who said they found a gift bag with one of the boys names was not the same person who hung up the big sign that says "Where are the Boy's?"

Like a poster suggested earlier, it's probably a bag that was left in front of the house after the boys went missing.