Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #2

[imstilla.grandma]

Adding these items to the list of possible evidence:
hairs, tire markings, shoe prints, bite marks in food items in trash or garbage, clothing, shoes, dirt samples, fingerprints and fibers

Eta: I appreciate your kindness @Luckyzmom. I get stronger everyday. It’s a process though for sure.

 

[susiQ]

Adding these items to the list of possible evidence:
hairs, tire markings, shoe prints, bite marks in food items in trash or garbage, clothing, shoes, dirt samples, fingerprints and fibers

One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure! LE’s treasure to be exact . MOO

 

[Little Nicki]

I am sorry but this has been bothering me and Idk what to do..... I drive intoand out of CC everyday...via the CC Blvd Road traveling towards the Highway58 at the end of the road, and one day i heard about the boys missing and this was pre-information and fliers it was within hours of it happening and the next day and as I was traveling back into town, a small white cross white blue accents appeared on the way into town and it wasn't there before. Now it was something about it and the way that he says bending some corners and that he bent a lot of corners that keeps it on my head because they live five minutes from the area, it is in the middle of the desert, busy but dark and visible to adjusted eyes at night who is around you, but the cross makes me think of a male child and I am NOT SAYING that it has ANYTHING TO DO WITH this situation but it could and I don't want to miss anything imporzant that I could have said. The distance from the road to the cross is possible to attain in a car driven beyond the speed limit I suppose and it is a very DANGEROUS CURVE that I dont doubt many accidents have happened and lives have been taken there as well but it just seems really odd to place something up like that at this time...my apologies to whomever placed it and I am sorry for your loss as well but I just want to mention it just in case because those boys are yelling out help from somewhere and it would kill me knowing that I could have helped them if I had said this. I apologizeif I offended anyone.

If the spot yr describing is an accident hotspot (from the way you describe it I think it might be), it is likely people have visited the site and laid maybe crosses or flowers over the Xmas holidays.

 

[Dre]

I would also say possibly:
-tools
-bedding and pillows, maybe cushions?
-any laundry in the process
-most belongings for super young children
-any and all traces on their phones and computers..often proving very fruitful to motive or timeframe, sometimes GPS if they didn’t turn phones off (also any indication of turning phones off, I never have mine off so I’d find this suspect)
Moo

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I would also say possibly:
-tools
-bedding and pillows, maybe cushions?
-any laundry in the process
-most belongings for super young children
-any and all traces on their phones and computers..often proving very fruitful to motive or timeframe, sometimes GPS if they didn’t turn phones off (also any indication of turning phones off, I never have mine off so I’d find this suspect)
Moo

Adding: Handwritten notes, mail, unpaid bills, collection notices, forwarded mail?, rental agreements, children’s artwork (telling, imo), sleeping arrangements, soiled clothing, gloves, hazardous materials, Christmas gifts for children (receipts), employment records, etc.

 

[TTF14]

Adding: Handwritten notes, mail, unpaid bills, collection notices, forwarded mail?, rental agreements, children’s artwork (telling, imo), sleeping arrangements, soiled clothing, gloves, hazardous materials, Christmas gifts for children (receipts), etc.

Toothbrush count.....especially children's toothbrushes.....

 

[Megnut]

Also, just as poignant, the ABSENCE of any and many of the items you're all suggesting.

The absence of DNA where you'd expect it, trash that doesn't fit the narrative because of what's NOT in it, receipts for 2 not 4. Deleted computer searches, no recent photos, etc, etc, etc.

IMO this won't take long but it will take time.

JMO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Also, just as poignant, the ABSENCE of any and many of the items you're all suggesting.

The absence of DNA where you'd expect it, trash that doesn't fit the narrative because of what's NOT init, receipts for 2 not 4. Deleted computer searches, no recent photos, etc, etc, etc.

IMO this won't take long but it will take time.

JMO

I’m thinking neglectful unintentional fatal injury. I just can’t see intentional homicide here. Two little boys. At the same time? Maybe accidental poisoning, left in a hot car; how else? It’s always the cover up that takes you down. (Nixon) Panicked adopters?

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2018_1100w850h.jpg

 

[rosesfromangels]

I’m thinking neglectful unintentional fatal injury. I just can’t see intentional homicide here. Two little boys. At the same time? Maybe accidental poisoning, left in a hot car; how else? It’s always the cover up that takes you down. (Nixon) Panicked adopters?
View attachment 278003
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2018_1100w850h.jpg

Another nefarious option would be selling them and using two of the other kids as "fill ins".

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[LietKynes]

I’m thinking neglectful unintentional fatal injury. I just can’t see intentional homicide here. Two little boys. At the same time? Maybe accidental poisoning, left in a hot car; how else? It’s always the cover up that takes you down. (Nixon) Panicked adopters?
View attachment 278003
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2018_1100w850h.jpg

Thanks for the link.
Besides hot car, what else might be accidental but certain people would panic and feel the need to cover it up ?
Maybe ingested meds or narcotics ?
And the parents knew they'd lose the older two adopted children and the $$ that came with them ?

Although possibly a punishment that went too far, and the other (older) child witnessed it and had to be 'silenced', as he was old enough to 'talk' ??
Or was it abuse and neglect that resulted in death, and their little bodies had to be hidden to mask the evidence ?
Thinking about DeOrr Kunz Jr. and why there was no scent of him at the campsite, and nothing ever found except the clothing he wore -- that was still at the rental house.
MOO

 

[susiQ]

I’m thinking neglectful unintentional fatal injury. I just can’t see intentional homicide here. Two little boys. At the same time? Maybe accidental poisoning, left in a hot car; how else? It’s always the cover up that takes you down. (Nixon) Panicked adopters?
View attachment 278003
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2018_1100w850h.jpg

Hmmm....certainly possible. I wonder how long they’ve had that particular van? Did the move include a new vehicle??

 

[dulcinea]

Yep, good point. Sometimes I feel like a cat chasing its tail in this case. So much we don't know, so much that doesn't make sense...

Every time I start to think about something, I run into a contradictory thought and just confuse myself! Just as in other cases I never know if it's because LE doesn't have anything or if it's because they are remaining quiet so as not to compromise any evidence. I never assume we know everything they know, of course.

 

[susiQ]

Every time I start to think about something, I run into a contradictory thought and just confuse myself! Just as in other cases I never know if it's because LE doesn't have anything or if it's because they are remaining quiet so as not to compromise any evidence. I never assume we know everything they know, of course.

You’re not alone! But I remind myself frequently, if we, just average everyday folk without any investigative experience (although I know many here do have real life experience in many fields!), if we feel that something isn’t right with the story, you can bet your bottom dollar LE know it too and they’re on it like white on rice .

 

[Luckyzmom]

Great stuff Thank you all. So frustrating, helpless little guys, just poof gone ! Nah don't think so. We all know we'd be screaming and manic if these boys were ours.
Hate to think these things about parents, but it's repeated again and again. Hurts the heart and makes your mind scream NOOOO !!
Please let them be found soon

 

[MissUnderstood]

Thanks for the link.
Besides hot car, what else might be accidental but certain people would panic and feel the need to cover it up ?
Maybe ingested meds or narcotics ?
And the parents knew they'd lose the older two adopted children and the $$ that came with them ?

Although possibly a punishment that went too far, and the other (older) child witnessed it and had to be 'silenced', as he was old enough to 'talk' ??
Or was it abuse and neglect that resulted in death, and their little bodies had to be hidden to mask the evidence ?
Thinking about DeOrr Kunz Jr. and why there was no scent of him at the campsite, and nothing ever found except the clothing he wore -- that was still at the rental house.
MOO

there have been cases where another child in the house could be responsible. Moo

 

[LietKynes]

there have been cases where another child in the house could be responsible. Moo

True.
I admit that thought didn't cross my mind yet.

 

[susiQ]

there have been cases where another child in the house could be responsible. Moo

Yes. The one that comes to mind is Roman Lopez. Still nothing there. Coming on one year in a week. Broke my heart. I think about him and his poor mother all the time .

 

[fraudqueen]

The whole thing of no photos from them makes me crazy too. They surely had some on their social media. I'd be curious to know when they scrubbed their facebook pages, before or after they went missing. If afterwards, wouldn't they say "here's a picture on facebook" to police when asked? And if there was one on their phone, wouldn't the police have made copies for the missing information posters?

 

[Beans]

It hinges on the existence of neighbour footage for me. If it exists and does actually show someone putting them in the van, I’ll struggle to accept the idea that this was all done as a carefully planned ‘disappearance’ (whatever form it takes) because you don’t go to all that trouble then risk tuning it all by being spotted on your neighbour’s camera. If footage exists I’ll probably veer more towards accident/panic or something along those lines. The whole thing is just too weird for words. Not really sure what to make of it at all at the moment.

 

[Knox]

There was an "Official Statement" issued by the extended West family members a moment ago. I'm alerting on this post to ask a Mod if a link can be posted. Please don't quote this post in case it needs to be removed.