Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[rosesfromangels]

I’ve been curious about this too and what the other children’s ages are. The Chief said in his interview with Bayan the other day that the children age range is 10 (oldest) to 3 (youngest), so I guess we can assume a 10 and 3 year old would have a pretty good difference in height and weight. I really wish we had confirmed info of all the ages of the children in between.

IMHO

And I have another question.

Ask the children if they were taught to answer to Orrin and Orson, or to tell people that's what their names were, or something similar.

Amateur wildcard speculation and opinion

 

[Algo214]

Sillybilly has given approval to post this YouTube video. Interview with Bayan Wang and retired NYC Homicide Detectives

Amateur opinion and speculation

2:40 and paraphrasing "albeit not officially named POI or suspects the AP are part of the focus in the investigation" which is almost as good as naming them POI or suspects.
9:00 they are aware of all surveillance footage but won't comment on their findings, understandable
9:50 the grandmother saw them last, besides the AP
10:30 people in Bakersfield saw them, did not comment on when
11:45 the neighbours in Cal City weren't familiar with any of the boys so that might explain why they haven't been able to positively state they've seen Orrin and Orson
16:00 people in the search parties allege the AP have not partaken in any search*
17:40 they didn't give the reporters contact info, which the reporter here says is customary*

*Marked are what I feel may be red flags in the case, specially the one about people in Bakersfield seeing them, paired with the unbelievably, possibly intentionally misleading short search.

All of the above is just my opinion and what I believe the facts in this case add up to but in no way am I implying any accusation

 

[Rachelj1]

Sounds like something they would use in court to refute the "they disappeared on their own" defense.
Sounds to me like an arrest is coming soon, as I predicted up thread. Wait for it...

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree

moo

 

[MsBetsy]

In the video Bayan addresses this question. Paraphrasing, he says neighbors state they didn't have enough time to know the family (visually or otherwise I surmise), and distinguish one child from another.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes, the boys have not been positively identified as being among the kids who lived in the house. The chief said initially the neighbor's said they didn't know there were any children living in the house, but then later some said they had seen them. He wouldn't confirm that they had seen all six, or if only four children got into the van on the 19th.

 

[fcavanaugh]

Sillybilly has given approval to post this YouTube video. Interview with Bayan Wang and retired NYC Homicide Detectives

Amateur opinion and speculation

Thank you for posting this interview @rosesfromangels.
Great guests, including two with substantial LE credentials and experience, provided interesting input regarding the case, wish the interview was a little longer to get more of their professional insight and input.

I really like reporter Bayan Wang. IMO he’s very professional and well spoken. It’s really good to see/know that a persistent, tenacious reporter such as Bayan appears to be, is covering and following up on Orrin and Orson’s case.

IMHO

 

[rosesfromangels]

2:40 and paraphrasing "albeit not officially named POI or suspects the AP are part of the focus in the investigation" which is almost as good as naming them POI or suspects.
9:00 they are aware of all surveillance footage but won't comment on their findings, understandable
9:50 the grandmother saw them last, besides the AP
10:30 people in Bakersfield saw them, did not comment on when
11:45 the neighbours in Cal City weren't familiar with any of the boys so that might explain why they haven't been able to positively state they've seen Orrin and Orson
16:00 people in the search parties allege the AP have not partaken in any search*
17:40 they didn't give the reporters contact info, which the reporter here says is customary*

*Marked are what I feel may be red flags in the case, specially the one about people in Bakersfield seeing them, paired with the unbelievably, possibly intentionally misleading short search.

All of the above is just my opinion and what I believe the facts in this case add up to but in no way am I implying any accusation

Great summary!
The hard boiled old law enforcement guys had a pretty strong opinion of this case.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dre]

Thank you. I feel like I’m doing nothing but throwing everything against the wall and seeing what sticks - including the kitchen sink and my iPad. The chief said the holes were already there with the dirt piled up. It makes me think the drones want to see if at anytime there was large vegetation growing at one time. I’m frustrated...

Ugh I feel this. I too am throwing out stuff i never would have before but this case from day one has got me going nutter butter!!

That video was interesting, I really like Bayan Wang as well and he got lots of love in that segment! I too liked hearing the very strong assertions made by the other experienced professionals, good for morale to know the experts think LE is totally on the right track.

Still wondering about the current house measurements though and why we’re not hearing more about Bakersfield searches and investigation.

I wonder that since they have their phones back, are LE allowed to continue to monitor their current and future internet searches or gps data etc?
With tech access I always picture perps searching their case to see the progress and stumble into the world of websleuths

 

[Emb72]

"Walker said personnel also examined the back gate of the home, which was allegedly left open when the boys disappeared from the backyard, according to adoptive parents."

https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-where-adopted-brothers-were-reported-missing

So they are checking the gate. I think someone mentioned that earlier.

So if they are checking the gate does that mean maybe possibly they are headed towards abduction? What would be another reason to check the gate?

 

[swanniee11]

In the interview with the Chief, he said they do have their phones back.

 

[Frodosdojo]

Ugh I feel this. I too am throwing out stuff i never would have before but this case from day one has got me going nutter butter!!

That video was interesting, I really like Bayan Wang as well and he got lots of love in that segment! I too liked hearing the very strong assertions made by the other experienced professionals, good for morale to know the experts think LE is totally on the right track.

Still wondering about the current house measurements though and why we’re not hearing more about Bakersfield searches and investigation.

I wonder that if they have their phones back, are LE allowed to continue to monitor their current and future internet searches or gps data etc?
With tech access I always picture perps searching their case to see the progress and stumble into the world of websleuths

Chief said the phones were given back to the parents recently.

So if they are checking the gate does that mean maybe possibly they are headed towards abduction? What would be another reason to check the gate?

I'm guessing to see if the gate will close on its own. Depending on how wide it was opened, could the kids get out ? How heavy is the gate ? Could a child push it open ? All guesses.

 

[Emb72]

How many gates are there to the back garden of the cal city home? I only see 2 metal gates but can't work out if there is wooden gates also, if there is only the metal gates, I don't see how the neighbour's surveillance camera (the one that was shown on YT) would pick up the boys leaving as that neighbour house is the wrong side to see the metal gates?

I was thinking the EXACT same thing. The camera was showing the front of the house where they park there van. I believe the gate, from pics I've seen, is on the other side of the yard which you cannot see at all from that camera. I could be wrong, it happens!

 

[rosesfromangels]

So if they are checking the gate does that mean maybe possibly they are headed towards abduction? What would be another reason to check the gate?

To be able to refute defense claims at trial

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Frodosdojo]

I was thinking the EXACT same thing. The camera was showing the front of the house where they park there van. I believe the gate, from pics I've seen, is on the other side of the yard which you cannot see at all from that camera. I could be wrong, it happens!

There is video that shows TW moving around in the backyard that night. You can't see in the backyard but you can see him go in and out the gate, presumably getting wood.

 

[Emb72]

There is video that shows TW moving around in the backyard that night. You can't see in the backyard but you can see him go in and out the gate, presumably getting wood.

I may need to watch the video again WITHOUT the commentary. Very distracting...

 

[swanniee11]

There is video that shows TW moving around in the backyard that night. You can't see in the backyard but you can see him go in and out the gate, presumably getting wood.

Can you bring that video up or direct me to where I can find it? I have not seen it. Thanks

 

[Knox]

Chief said the phones were given back to the parents recently.
I'm guessing to see if the gate will close on its own. Depending on how wide it was opened, could the kids get out ? How heavy is the gate ? Could a child push it open ? All guesses.

There are two gates - one wood gate off the garage in the area next to the driveway. This gate is said to automatically close if opened. The metal gates on the side of the backyard, which is what TW said he left open, appears not to close on their own- per the many, many, pictures and video available on MSM.

The wood gate would have two of the neighbor's camera views, IMO. The metal side gate would have the least visible camera view and does not auto close. So there you have it. If you have nefarious purposes to explain how your kids went missing, it's an obvious choice, IMO.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

I'm catching up from a couple pages back, but...
There are 2 separate real estate listings we have linked here. One recent, look at the kitchen cabinets are white.
The older link shows them before reno and they were brown.

I will do the circling, but there were definitely holes there in 2018 listing.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

So if they are checking the gate does that mean maybe possibly they are headed towards abduction? What would be another reason to check the gate?

I don't think it's likely, but if they somehow have video of someone entering/exiting that gate they could be measuring the gate to reference the height of people/persons entering or exiting the gate. I've heard several cases of LE going back to measure objects, doors, ceiling etc to try go narrow down a person's height.

 

[Dre]

I remember seeing a screen shot of a security video from across the street of the vandalism taking place after the disappearance.
from the angle of the camera you would 100% be able to see any activity just outside that gate, whether it’s TW lugging wood around, or little babies wandering out of the gate, moo.

are they double checking there aren’t any other viable exits since the footage shows no one leaving that gate but TW?

anyone able to link or send the footage of that night with TW collecting the wood? I’m surprised that’s out there somewhere honestly! TIA


Eta. I remember reading somewhere that the last resident said there was a self closing mechanism on that specific gate but not anymore? Maybe that was part of LE interest yesterday?

 

[Frodosdojo]

I'm catching up from a couple pages back, but...
There are 2 separate real estate listings we have linked here. One recent, look at the kitchen cabinets are white.
The older link shows them before reno and they were brown.

I will do the circling, but there were definitely holes there in 2018 listing.

It looks like dead grass, not holes to me.