Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[Lusitana]

I think it’s safe to assume that there are serious concerns about the children’s safety, and that’s why all of them were removed so quickly after the boys were reported missing.

That doesn’t happen all the time in a missing person’s case. At least not so quickly and without arrests. Something is making LE and CPS believe that the remaining kids would NOT be safe under they’re care and honestly, that says a lot about the boys situation and what may have happened to them.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

This post lands at random.

It is not open season on the adoptive parents or anyone else who has not been officially named a POI or suspect in this case.

How will you feel if someone you are accusing is found to be totally innocent? Would you be able to face them and say the same things to their face that you are posting on the internet?

Websleuths does not allow members to be rude or disrespectful. Post responsibly and respectfully without making direct accusations against anyone who is not an officially named POI or suspect.

One of the most basic principles of Websleuths is that we are victim friendly. Unless/until someone is officially named by LE to be POIs or suspects, family members are considered victims under our Victim Friendly policy. Members are responsible for their own words and for keeping their posts in line with Websleuths TOS.

 

[MsBetsy]

Right @MsBetsy, I agree that something could have happened to the boys inside the home within the 3 month Sept-Dec timeframe. I was addressing only that *if* it had been verified/confirmed that the other children did see the boys last on 12/19/20, and *if* the AP’s are involved, the window would have been very short for covering tracks.

IMHO

Yes, it is a short period of time, if a crime occurred within those two days. By now I would assume LE has the GPS data from their phones and have checked surveillance footage from the store they said went to on the 19th. Since there is no physical evidence, it may take a long time to build the case on circumstantial evidence.

It may take even longer if the boys went missing before the 19th. I haven't heard LE confirm the boys were seen on video that day. That would be direct evidence that the boys were alive and well on the 19th. Imo

 

[PommyMommy]

IF the boys were seen by siblings and other family on the 19th, then WHY isn't there clear evidence of them having been in the CC house?

What do the AP say when asked that question?

(asking here rhetorically, of course, not presuming the public knows the answer)

I see your IF in caps but just wanted to point out that we don't know where the siblings said they last saw the boys on the 19th. MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

I see your IF in caps but just wanted to point out that we don't know where the siblings said they last saw the boys on the 19th. MOO

That is something too, what if they did see them just not at CA city home ?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I see your IF in caps but just wanted to point out that we don't know where the siblings said they last saw the boys on the 19th. MOO

That was actually part of my thinking. What if the boys had been living with grandparents? Or some other arrangement other than the CC house? Surely that would have come up -- mentioned to LE either by the AP or by other family.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Hmm the extended adopted family or uncle state that they “believe they will be found safe and returned home.”
Curious...
1) What makes them believe the boys will be found safe and returned home?

2) Did their PI find something to make them believe that?

3) Did TW and JW or other family members tell them something to make them believe that?

4) What is their theory? (Stranger Abduction? Rehoming? Family abduction?)

5) If that is their belief, what are they doing to publicize the boys’ disappearance and help the search?

Maybe they're just putting their faith in the hope that they're okay, and will come home.
The alternative is utterly heartbreaking so, maybe they're the kind of folks that in the absence of the worst possible news, they're just going to keep the faith that they're still alive, okay, and will be coming home.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

IF the boys were seen by siblings and other family on the 19th, then WHY isn't there clear evidence of them having been in the CC house?

What do the AP say when asked that question?

(asking here rhetorically, of course, not presuming the public knows the answer)

You're asking this question with the implication that there isn't any evidence of them having been in the CC house. Has LE ever came out and said there isn't any evidence of them ever having lived there?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

You're asking this question with the implication that there isn't any evidence of them having been in the CC house. Has LE ever came out and said there isn't any evidence of them ever having lived there?

LE gave a non-answer to that question when asked (in public reports) and yes I'm using that non-answer as the basis to speculate that LE found no evidence of the boys in the house.

I do assume that if there was even approximately comparable evidence of O&O in the CC house as there apparently was of the other kids (based on LE comments), there would have been no reason for LE not to say so.

It's technically POSSIBLE that O&O lived in the CC house even though LE found no evidence of them, and that slight possibility is, I assume, one reason why LE gave that vague answer rather than saying definitively no.

 

[fcavanaugh]

That is something too, what if they did see them just not at CA city home ?

It’s a good point but I wonder, if not with their parents, where else could O & O have been on the 19th when the 4 kids say they last saw them, and with whom?
According to the Chief, the AP said they left their Cal City home on the 19th with 6 children in tow, dropped off their other 4 kids @ Grandma’s, went shopping, then back to Cal City home. Not clear if shopping was done before or after dropping other 4 kids off @ Grandma’s. LE hasn’t said if all statements have been confirmed to be true, but did say the cameras showed only 4 kids getting into van, and showed TW & JW returning home alone.
IMO, if O & O really didn’t leave Cal City home on 12/19/20 with rest of family, the only other option would be that O & O were already @ Grandma’s when the other 4 kids were dropped off and that’s where they were last seen by their 4 siblings. But why not just say so if that were the case, and why didn’t cameras show O & O arriving back home with TW & JW on the 19th? It’s possible O & O weren’t picked up on cameras either getting in the van or getting home, but still, if kids saw the boys somewhere else on the 19th, the only thing that makes sense would be they were at the Grandparents and AP’s picked them up there when they dropped the other 4 kids off. They’re only 3 & 4 yrs. old, so not too many other places they’d likely be except with family, and especially considering AP’s said they were being very careful due to Covid.

Not much seems to make sense with the info that’s been released so far, but I’m hopeful LE has the answers to a lot of our questions. They may not be disclosing the answers publicly so as to not tip off any POI/Suspect(s) they may have. (IMO, LE doesn’t always disclose to the public/name any suspect(s) even if they have them).

All of the above IMHOO

 

[Rachelj1]

LE gave a non-answer to that question when asked (in public reports) and yes I'm using that non-answer as the basis to speculate that LE found no evidence of the boys in the house.

I do assume that if there was even approximately comparable evidence of O&O in the CC house as there apparently was of the other kids (based on LE comments), there would have been no reason for LE not to say so.

It's technically POSSIBLE that O&O lived in the CC house even though LE found no evidence of them, and that slight possibility is, I assume, one reason why LE gave that vague answer rather than saying definitively no.

Exactly because I remember the chief saying evidence of them inside and not out. He also never said evidence they lived there...ALL he said was that their scent was there. I think its totally safe to speculate based on what we've been provided by the chief. We all know that the police rely on the public for theories and leads when they are at a loss. The chief has said more than most police departments that I've seen. I really think that if he needs to...he'll let out a few more interesting facts.

MOO

 

[cvaldez1975]

Bakersfield is a sprawling city. Norris @ 99 is north of Bakersfield in Oildale, the news said the billboard is on the southbound side. Mt. Vernon @ 58 is in East Bakersfield. Maybe they will place one south of Bakersfield where Hwy 99 and Interstate 5 merge.

by stockdale and panama would be good areas too.

 

[Rachelj1]

FEB 15, 2021
California City toddlers still missing after 8 weeks, no suspect or person of interest (turnto23.com)
[...]

"They do not just roam around these patches ... I think definitely would have been picked up or something," Jacqueline West said on Dec. 23.

According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children "non-family abductions" make up for less than 1 percent of the nearly 30,000 missing children cases they assisted law enforcement with in 2020.

[...]

"A stereotypical stranger abduction is very very rare," Klaas told 23ABC News Monday.

[...]

The California City Police Department confirmed Monday, there is still no physical evidence of a crime.

Klaas said he sympathizes with the Kern County community as it took 65 days for authorities to find a major break in his daughter's case.

[...]

JW, Trezell West's oldest brother issued a statement Monday that read in part:

"we are devastated at the disappearance of the boys, pray and believe they will be found safe and returned home. There is someone out there who knows the truth and the official search must continue to find the boys and reveal what occurred. We are advocating that the search remains a priority for the agencies involved. We are also grateful to the thousands of people who have leaned in appropriately to help."

You know what bugs me about this , “ no physical evidence of a crime “. I mean isn’t losing 2 toddlers under your care kind of a crime ? Especially when you lie to police allegedly about the apparent abduction night ? Unless I’m missing something ... O and O were NEVER on video from neighbors cameras.

Moo

 

[MsBetsy]

Exactly because I remember the chief saying evidence of them inside and not out. He also never said evidence they lived there...ALL he said was that their scent was there. I think its totally safe to speculate based on what we've been provided by the chief. We all know that the police rely on the public for theories and leads when they are at a loss. The chief has said more than most police departments that I've seen. I really think that if he needs to...he'll let out a few more interesting facts.

MOO

I think LE relies on the public for information about a case, but not necessarily theories. They have already followed through with 1000 tips from the public and not one was credible. I think they consider all tips, and if one develops into a lead, they will pursue it. Otherwise I think they follow wherever the evidence leads them. Imo

 

[Ontario Mom]

LE gave a non-answer to that question when asked (in public reports) and yes I'm using that non-answer as the basis to speculate that LE found no evidence of the boys in the house.

RSBM

I've looked in the media timeline and can't seem to find the artcile where Chief Walker was asked about this. Anyone have a link for that?

TIA

ETA: I found it. "Chief Walker says there is proof children have been living in the house. Eyewitness News asked him if those children include Orrin and Orson West and he said not necessarily."

California City Police Chief says case of missing boys is still an active investigation

While I'm not sure I'd call that a non-answer, it's definitely a curious one. At the time of that article the boys had been missing for 8 days so I wonder if it was too early (lab/DNA tests not returned yet) to state factually if they had discovered solid evidence they ever lived there or not? Surely by now they must know one way or another, however.

jmo

 

[Rachelj1]

Ok I'm gonna theorize something other than JW and TW totally responsible. Was it ever said if their registered sex offenders in their immediate area? Like the same street?

 

[Rachelj1]

RSBM

I've looked in the media timeline and can't seem to find the artcile where Chief Walker was asked about this. Anyone have a link for that?

TIA

I want to say it was actually one of his press conferences? Ill try to find it. I do remember him saying something like that though.

 

[Rachelj1]

I think LE relies on the public for information about a case, but not necessarily theories. They have already followed through with 1000 tips from the public and not one was credible. I think they consider all tips, and if one develops into a lead, they will pursue it. Otherwise I think they follow wherever the evidence leads them. Imo

Theories was a bad choice of word, I meant paint a picture kind of. Oh I've seen where people throw out crazy theories and speculation and the police actually waste so much precious time too! Im saying like if we know A B and C already...but we dont know exactly how they ended at C! I hope that makes sense

MOO

 

[NCHydrangea]

Ok I'm gonna theorize something other than JW and TW totally responsible. Was it ever said if their registered sex offenders in their immediate area? Like the same street?

Yes. I recall a post that stated that there are several registered sex offenders in close proximity to their house.

 

[Rachelj1]

Yes. I recall a post that stated that there are several registered sex offenders in close proximity to their house.

OK so I’m just totally speculating here to try to get out of the box that I’m in, but TW said I think they are at one of the neighbors or they’re going to be right here he kept saying things like that so what if there’s some shady crap happening on their street and something happened to the boys and they just can’t say anything? Like what if they were a part of some underground child ring? I’m just trying to think totally outside of the box

moo