Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020

[AmandaReckonwith]

It's been too long. They need a door-to-door search.
That is unless the parents are suspected to have done away with the boys.

 

[LietKynes]

Are you kidding me with this?

No names?

No photos of the missing little boys?

No release of the time they were last seen?

Okay.

Digging for more info...

Exactly.

Now that the information is out.
Sounds hinky.
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

During the interview, the full interview, the woman screaming at the parents and others were noted by the Mom to be from the bio-family. One screamed out “what did you do to my nephews!”
Personally after watching the full interview I feel for the parents and agree all the homes,cars and outbuildings should be searched. And the water again.

The boys are adopted, according to the DM.

Hunt for brothers, three and four, as cops search home and quiz adoptive parents | Daily Mail Online

Mrs West reportedly told the boys to go and play outside with their father after she was busy wrapping presents. The boys were reported missing at around 8pm on Monday.

Question : Was it already dark outside when the boys were told to go out and play with chalk ?
And if it was cold enough that the adoptive dad had to gather wood--- wasn't it too cold for the children to play outdoors for any length of time ?
Imo.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

The adoptive mom says there are pics on her phone. LE has her phone.

 

[Lusitana]

Sending some of the children to grandparents and keeping some children at home is new to me. Where I come from, this generation’s grandparents are actively involved in the grandchildren’s lives. We don’t have many older grandparents either, but yeah I guess if they were older it would make it harder to deal with so many kids.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

I'd be interested to know...
How long were the other kids at grandparents?
Where did that van travel to in the time the older kids were at grandparents?

Otherwise, that is a lot of desert. They could be buried and not found for ages.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

If any locals are here, I'm wondering if either volunteers or LE are still searching?

The thought of two tiny brothers both disappearing forever is just too much. I know there are past sibling cases, but in this day and age, I just hope not and that LE is close to finding them.

 

[legalmomma]

The boys are adopted, according to the DM.

Hunt for brothers, three and four, as cops search home and quiz adoptive parents | Daily Mail Online

Mrs West reportedly told the boys to go and play outside with their father after she was busy wrapping presents. The boys were reported missing at around 8pm on Monday.

Question : Was it already dark outside when the boys were told to go out and play with chalk ?
And if it was cold enough that the adoptive dad had to gather wood--- wasn't it too cold for the children to play outdoors for any length of time ?
Imo.

Yes. When I posted “Mom” I was referring to adoptive mom. I edited my post for clarity.

 

[LietKynes]

Yes. When I posted “Mom” I was referring to adoptive mom. I edited my post for clarity.

That's ok.
I'm new to this case and am still reading back and catching up.

It sounds like they were fostered by the adoptive parents before this ?

Speculation : Wonder if an accident happened and is being covered up ?

What's interesting is if the bio-family are involved at some level ?
Sounds like a relative confronted the adoptive mom ?

Eta : Oops, that was from your post, LM.
Interesting family dynamics going on there.
Imo.

 

[MojaveMave]

Yeah watching the videos, it doesn't appear there's any wood outside the fence unless it was a small pile and he moved it all.

Edit: on another note who would keep firewood outside their yard? That makes zero sense to me

This particular house has vacant lots on each side of it. This is not at all unusual in that town. Lots of homes, especially those on the edges of town, have vacant lots. When I lived there, I had neighbors on each side of me, but across the street were 5 wide open lots, as well as directly behind me and opening up to the desert to the north. These lots are often full of brush, dead tumble weeds, etc. The wind blows all kinds of random stuff around. The wind out there is pretty strong. One year we had an entire door blown in to the backyard, never found out who it belonged to. heh.

Now that all said, last night (I hope it's okay to mention this) I had to go to CalCity to drop things off for a family member, right near this location. I quickly drove by and saw.... absolutely nothing. There was no crime scene tape, no cars, anything. The house looked dark ( is was just after sunset) except for a couple of exterior lights that were on. The only thing visible were what we've seen in photos, the pile of balloons and candles that have appeared on the southeast corner of the property by a fence/tree. It looked like any other home in the neighborhood on a cold December evening. Absolutely nobody was out there and no indication it was a "crime scene" as some people have claimed. So, whatever may have been there has long since been removed. Keep in mind I didn't go there on purpose to search this out. I was in the immediate area anyway and since this is such a remote community, and I know many people living here...

I will say that the lot to the east of the house has some dead trees/shrubbery on it and there are two trees in the front yard. So it certainly plausible the father was looking for wood or material to burn. There's certainly plenty of combustible material in the lots surrounding the home, especially the east side.

 

[Dre]

I’m finding it interesting that so many people aren’t trusting that the FBI is capable of searching yards, talking to neighbors, looking at sex offenders, bio fam in Bakersfield etc.

The feds are the real deal, and they are better than most LE and websleuthers combined, they are professionals and have resources we don’t even know about. The elements people seem to be worried about were likely covered on day one.

They have reasons to believe that the boys did not just disappear or were abducted by a stranger, this case would look much different if that was still on the table.

the older kids at grandparents gave me pause, do they know more and were sent away hopeful to not be interviewed by FBI?
Were they sent away by their parents in premeditation?
All moo.

 

[MsMarple]

During the interview, the full interview, the woman screaming at the parents and others were noted by the adoptive Mom to be from the bio-family. One screamed out “what did you do to my nephews!”
Personally after watching the full interview I feel for the parents and agree all the homes,cars and outbuildings should be searched. And the water again.

And from looking at various video there seems to be tall grass in outlying areas. I wonder if LE did a grid search and if so how far out did they search? And LE doesn't seem to be organizing the volunteer searches so I guess maybe they're not too concerned with possible evidence beyond the property.
Search continues for missing boys Orrin and Orson West, reported missing Monday
Community holds prayer vigil for two boys missing in California City | KGET 17

I wish LE would give an update. The news outlets have gone quiet as there's nothing new to report. I hate seeing these little guys slip out of the public's eye. And I'm still hoping someone in the neighborhood has a surveillance camera.

 

[MojaveMave]

As a local I can tell you that CCPD not giving out much information is 100% how they do things. They are usually tight lipped about most things because of elements of the local community who tend to cause trouble and get way too involved. They are a small department with few resources covering a land area that is the third largest in the entire state.

There haven't been any organized searches other than that first night and then...nothing. It was reported that they invited the FBI in, the search the following day at the home... and that's about it. Most community members are reporting that the local authorities don't really care what or where they go looking as long as they don't get in the way of any active LEO activity.

There were some people talking that the city attorney has been working on a press release. That, also, seems normal...anytime there's any kind of attention on something in town, the city attorney is often called in.

 

[Knox]

BBM The adoptive mother said she has recent photos but they are on her phone (which was collected by LE). About 7:34 ish: Bayan Wang 23ABC - Facebook

Also, at about the 12:46 minute mark in the same video, someone asks about the rest of the kids and their father says they were at Grandma's. They kept Orson and Orrin home because they were too young. MOO

Important detail PM - the other children were "on vacation". Transcribed below from your link, beginning at 12:30-Bayan Wang 23ABC - Facebook

• A speaker off camera is asking the bio-parents if they realize how the situation looks. "You went in the house and then the kids disappeared".
• TW- Exactly, and that's what we are trying to figure out.
• Speaker off camera- How did they disappear, you guys have the house supervised already. My question is why are they the only two children sent out of the house?
• TW-The rest of the kids were with Grandma. They left, they went on vacation.
• Speaker off camera- So they didn't go.
• TW-No they are too young, we watched them, and it turns out that happened.

 

[Knox]

During the interview, the full interview, the woman screaming at the parents and others were noted by the adoptive Mom to be from the bio-family. One screamed out “what did you do to my nephews!”
Personally after watching the full interview I feel for the parents and agree all the homes,cars and outbuildings should be searched. And the water again.

Even though I have my suspicions about TW & JW, I agree it's hard to watch them being questioned by the bio-family. It's bordering on harassment and I think LE should take charge of that situation. I'd hate for it to escalate into something ugly. Bio-family needs to step back and let LE handle the investigation period.

 

[Warwick7]

A 4 year old child is not a toddler.
4 is considered preschooler, and toddlers are 1 to 3.
No, a 4-year-old is not toddling
around any more, hence, they are no longer toddlers.

To keep the 4 year-old home because he was a toddler doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Dawookie]

This particular house has vacant lots on each side of it. This is not at all unusual in that town. Lots of homes, especially those on the edges of town, have vacant lots. When I lived there, I had neighbors on each side of me, but across the street were 5 wide open lots, as well as directly behind me and opening up to the desert to the north. These lots are often full of brush, dead tumble weeds, etc. The wind blows all kinds of random stuff around. The wind out there is pretty strong. One year we had an entire door blown in to the backyard, never found out who it belonged to. heh.

Now that all said, last night (I hope it's okay to mention this) I had to go to CalCity to drop things off for a family member, right near this location. I quickly drove by and saw.... absolutely nothing. There was no crime scene tape, no cars, anything. The house looked dark ( is was just after sunset) except for a couple of exterior lights that were on. The only thing visible were what we've seen in photos, the pile of balloons and candles that have appeared on the southeast corner of the property by a fence/tree. It looked like any other home in the neighborhood on a cold December evening. Absolutely nobody was out there and no indication it was a "crime scene" as some people have claimed. So, whatever may have been there has long since been removed. Keep in mind I didn't go there on purpose to search this out. I was in the immediate area anyway and since this is such a remote community, and I know many people living here...

I will say that the lot to the east of the house has some dead trees/shrubbery on it and there are two trees in the front yard. So it certainly plausible the father was looking for wood or material to burn. There's certainly plenty of combustible material in the lots surrounding the home, especially the east side.

It just seemed odd that he said he was getting firewood from outside the gate.

 

[realanastasia]

A 4 year old child is not a toddler.
4 is considered preschooler, and toddlers are 1 to 3.
No, a 4-year-old is not toddling
around any more, hence, they are no longer toddlers.

To keep the 4 year-old home because he was a toddler doesn't sit well with me.

I wonder if this explanation is actually not the whole truth but just a more palatable/less awkward explanation than the real reason for leaving the two siblings at home while the other kids headed off to Grandma's. This is purely speculation on my part, but I have heard of families which have to deal with grandparents who are only interested in their kids' biological children, and who refuse to babysit/take on an outing/have for an overnight visit their kids' foster children (AND, in some cases, their stepchildren). I'm not saying this is the case with this family, but it does seem like a more plausible explanation than the children's ages. A more benign version of the same explanation might be that the kids were simply too young and active for the grandparents to feel comfortable taking responsibility for watching them--god only knows there are more than enough threads on Websleuths about the terrible tragedies that can occur when a tiny, fearless, fleet-of-foot little human scoots out of the house before Grandma/Grandpa/elderly caregiver even notices they're gone...

 

[LietKynes]

It just seemed odd that he said he was getting firewood from outside the gate.

I am assuming at this time that they do have a fireplace ?
Was collecting wood a usual, normal activity for him ?
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

Hoping they'll be found safe somewhere.
Their age makes this seem like it won't have a happy ending, though.
LE have not said they were possibly kidnapped or left of their own accord (i.e., ran away).
So what's left ?
MOO