CA - Pacific Palisades - 30,000 People Ordered to Evacuate From L.A. Wildfires #2

[DS2021]

California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection | CAL FIRE

www.fire.ca.gov

 

[Lilibet]

Believe me, I am aware of them. I have been following this very closely.

People can do everything 'right', and can still lose their lives. The father and son you mentioned did exactly what disabled people who cannot self evacuate are advised to do, and they still died.

A fire on this scale is something most people who don't live in fire zones struggle to grasp. To be honest, I'm surprised the death toll is as low as it is. It was a perfect combination of things for catastrophe, heightened to an extreme level by it entering a densely populated area and the hydrants running dry. We could have been looking at hundreds dead, rather than a few dozen.

MOO

BBM
Your post is very important, @iamshadow21. In a catastrophic fire like this there are no guarantees of survival no matter how well you personally have prepared and how well the first responders are prepared. Fires like this are totally unpredictable because the wind is in charge. Full stop. Even if every fire hydrant continued to work, the wind drives the fire and it cannot be stopped. A few more houses might be saved, but not enough to make it less of a catastrophe.

Like you, I am amazed that more people weren’t killed. There may be more who are discovered, but it probably won’t be the hundreds one would expect, thankfully. In the Almeda fire here in Southern Oregon in 2020 that I’ve mentioned before, we lost “only” three people, despite the fire roaring through 3000 acres in two small towns, driven by the wind. Two of the deceased were very elderly in the same mobile home park. It destroyed over 2500 homes (10 of my friends’ homes) and 600 businesses.

It was a mini version of the fires in LA, so I totally get what you’re saying and just want to confirm how unpredictable these fires are. It’s important to make preparations, but there are simply no guarantees that your plans will succeed. That fact is hard for people to accept because we want to think that nothing bad will happen to us if we do everything “right.” Or if the fire department or local government does everything “right.” But sometimes doing everything “right” isn’t enough. It is what it is.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Truly excellent article about fires on this scale in suburban areas, and how a chain reaction of things heightened by how we build and what we build with makes it worse.

It's not one thing or another thing, it's everything all coming together to make the perfect, unstoppable disaster.

When houses are fuel: Why firefighting was no match for a California disaster decades in the making

Why firefighting was no match for a California disaster decades in the making.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Dotta]

Truly excellent article about fires on this scale in suburban areas, and how a chain reaction of things heightened by how we build and what we build with makes it worse.

It's not one thing or another thing, it's everything all coming together to make the perfect, unstoppable disaster.

When houses are fuel: Why firefighting was no match for a California disaster decades in the making

Why firefighting was no match for a California disaster decades in the making.

www.nbcnews.com

From your link:

"Fire experts and conservationists say
development should either be stopped in fire-prone areas or better designed:

Neighborhoods should be constructed with fire-resistant materials
and roads made wide enough for people to escape and emergency responders to get in.

Existing housing should be retrofitted
and hardened with the expectation it will face fire."

Exactly!
Nothing more
Nothing less!

High time for changes.

JMO

When houses are fuel: Why firefighting was no match for a California disaster decades in the making

Why firefighting was no match for a California disaster decades in the making.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[iamshadow21]

From your link:

"Fire experts and conservationists say
development should either be stopped in fire-prone areas or better designed:

Neighborhoods should be constructed with fire-resistant materials
and roads made wide enough for people to escape and emergency responders to get in.

Existing housing should be retrofitted
and hardened with the expectation it will face fire."

Exactly!
Nothing more
Nothing less!

High time for changes.

JMO

I hate to be a pessimist, but it's never going to happen. Too many developers and such make too much money cramming cheap flammable builds into maximum square footage in high risk areas. I see it here, too.

Bills and laws to change this stuff get crafted and raised and shot down all the time because there's too much money to be made and the people who make it have too much influence. And they don't care about the everyday victims because they have a dozen houses all over the world and it doesn't affect them more than a parking ticket if one burns down.

Never mind that with partisan politics, the first things the next lot in charge do is tear up everything the last lot wanted to establish. So there's not the continuity of purpose required for lasting change.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

I hate to be a pessimist, but it's never going to happen. Too many developers and such make too much money cramming cheap flammable builds into maximum square footage in high risk areas. I see it here, too.

Bills and laws to change this stuff get crafted and raised and shot down all the time because there's too much money to be made and the people who make it have too much influence. And they don't care about the everyday victims because they have a dozen houses all over the world and it doesn't affect them more than a parking ticket if one burns down.

Never mind that with partisan politics, the first things the next lot in charge do is tear up everything the last lot wanted to establish. So there's not the continuity of purpose required for lasting change.

MOO

"To err is human,
but to remain in error willingly is diabolical."

Oh well...
Too bad.

JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

"Renowned Hollywood icon Dalyce Curry has been discovered deceased in her LA residence after falling victim to the rampaging wildfires in the county.

The 95-year-old actress, who was retired but starred in The Blues Brothers (1980), The 10 Commandments (1956) and Lady Sings the Blues (1972), was found in her Altadena home, located in northeast Los Angeles, on Sunday at 6pm.

She had been reported missing by her family when they couldn't find her at a designated evacuation site.'

Beloved Hollywood actress found dead after LA wildfires rip through her home

A Hollywood actress, 95, was found dead in her Los Angeles home after it was destroyed by the wildfires that are currently tearing apart the area.

www.the-express.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Not looking good for Monday.

Southern California faces most urgent warning for strong winds, extreme fire danger

Forecasters in Southern California expect to issue a 'particularly dangerous situation' red flag warning for the coming week as the Santa Ana wind forecast worsens.

www.latimes.com

 

[iamshadow21]

A great article about how Tongva cultural burning practices and land management aren't just a relic of the past, but the way forward.

The Tongva's land burned in Eaton fire. But leaders say traditional practices mitigated damage

Tongva community leaders credit traditional stewardship practices, including the removal of fire-prone eucalyptus, with reducing the wildfire’s impact.

www.latimes.com

It's certainly being adopted in more and more areas here in Australia. Our First Nations peoples managed the land through controlled burns and other practices for tens of thousands of years.

MOO

 

[Herat]

Not looking good for Monday.

Southern California faces most urgent warning for strong winds, extreme fire danger

Forecasters in Southern California expect to issue a 'particularly dangerous situation' red flag warning for the coming week as the Santa Ana wind forecast worsens.

www.latimes.com

Not another Santa Ana. Mercy me. Why can't there be a small amount of rain?

 

[iamshadow21]

Families of wildfire victims mired in grief, questioning what more could have been done

Many families in California are full of grief and questions about what more they could have done to save their loved ones from the deadly wildfires. Experts say these survivors are victims themselves.

www.nbclosangeles.com

 

[SouthAussie]

I hate to be a pessimist, but it's never going to happen. Too many developers and such make too much money cramming cheap flammable builds into maximum square footage in high risk areas. I see it here, too.

Bills and laws to change this stuff get crafted and raised and shot down all the time because there's too much money to be made and the people who make it have too much influence. And they don't care about the everyday victims because they have a dozen houses all over the world and it doesn't affect them more than a parking ticket if one burns down.

Never mind that with partisan politics, the first things the next lot in charge do is tear up everything the last lot wanted to establish. So there's not the continuity of purpose required for lasting change.

MOO

My city has had a policy in place since 1962 to try to prevent bushfires from engulfing the city. Our topography is much like LA. The city is between the hills and the ocean. The policy prevents people building homes on the face of the hills, so that the land can be managed and stop fires (and potentially floods) coming down the hills into the city.

But, as you say, along the way there have been govts who say "Well, you can build here, and maybe here". So now it is not as well managed as it should be at the northern and southern ends of the city.

 

[Dotta]

"Meet the rescuers
who have saved countless lost dogs, cats and even fish
from the devastating LA fires.



'These pets weren't intentionally left behind.
Many people were at work and raced back home to save their animals,
but were stopped by authorities'.

'Imagine the agony of not being able to get to your pet'.

"We are all working together
by sharing photos of missing animals, found pets
and providing ongoing updates on our progress.

We circulate these photos on Instagram.
It really is a team effort'."

Meet the rescuers who have saved countless animal from LA wildfires

Animal rescue organizations in Southern California are battling dangerous areas to save beloved pets from the Los Angeles fires devastation - and they're not just helping cats and dogs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

Not another Santa Ana. Mercy me. Why can't there be a small amount of rain?

Rose Schoenfeld, meteorologist with the National Weather Service office in Oxnard, says that there is a 20%-30% chance of rain between 25th-27th January, and it doesn't look like a really thorough wetting for much of the area.

Southern California faces most urgent warning for strong winds, extreme fire danger

Forecasters in Southern California expect to issue a 'particularly dangerous situation' red flag warning for the coming week as the Santa Ana wind forecast worsens.

www.latimes.com

 

[slowpoke]

A great article about how Tongva cultural burning practices and land management aren't just a relic of the past, but the way forward.

The Tongva's land burned in Eaton fire. But leaders say traditional practices mitigated damage

Tongva community leaders credit traditional stewardship practices, including the removal of fire-prone eucalyptus, with reducing the wildfire’s impact.

www.latimes.com

It's certainly being adopted in more and more areas here in Australia. Our First Nations peoples managed the land through controlled burns and other practices for tens of thousands of years.

MOO

More perspectives on controlled burns in this article, and whether or not it would have helped in the Palisades Fire.

But the L.A. fires didn’t start or spread in a forest. The largest blaze, in the Pacific Palisades neighborhood, ignited in a chaparral environment full of shrubs that have been growing for about 50 years. Jon Keeley, a research scientist with the U.S. Geological Survey and an adjunct professor at the University of California, said that’s not enough time for this particular environment to build up an “unnatural accumulation of fuels.”

“Fuels are not really the issue in these big fires — it’s the extreme winds. You can do prescription burning in chaparral and have essentially no impact on Santa Ana wind-driven fires.”

Could More Controlled Burns Have Stopped the L.A. Fires?

They can be an effective wildfire prevention tool — but not always.

heatmap.news

 

[Charlot123]

Very sad. I wonder why this poor, elderly woman with dementia was living alone?

Partially, because moving them to assisted living often hastens the symptoms. In their houses/neighborhoods, they know everything/everyone. A new place and people make them feel very anxious. Yes. Sad.

 

[Herat]

Rose Schoenfeld, meteorologist with the National Weather Service office in Oxnard, says that there is a 20%-30% chance of rain between 25th-27th January, and it doesn't look like a really thorough wetting for much of the area.

Southern California faces most urgent warning for strong winds, extreme fire danger

Forecasters in Southern California expect to issue a 'particularly dangerous situation' red flag warning for the coming week as the Santa Ana wind forecast worsens.

www.latimes.com

Well, that must mean a itsy bit of humidity in the air.

 

[Lilibet]

Oregon firefighters rescue couple, continue battling Palisades Fire in California

Oregon firefighters are playing a crucial role in Southern California, where last weekend, a heroic rescue by two Oregon firefighters saved the lives of an elderly couple trapped by the Palisades Fire.

www.kdrv.com

The two firefighters, part of the Douglas County strike team, were searching for hotspots in remote areas when they made the life-saving discovery.

While checking the area, they came upon a home still standing and found an elderly couple inside. The husband had suffered severe second-degree burns—possibly third-degree burns—during the initial fire front. The firefighters immediately called for medical assistance and coordinated with other teams to evacuate the couple to safety.

 

[Donswife48]

Does anyone know how far from the houses the first smoke /fire started? I think California has a good success using planes dropping fire retardant to keep the fires contained before moving down the canyons into the housing. Sadly, because of the winds, the planes had to be grounded, so it was then the fire dept left to fight on ground level. JMO

 

[slowpoke]

Does anyone know how far from the houses the first smoke /fire started? I think California has a good success using planes dropping fire retardant to keep the fires contained before moving down the canyons into the housing. Sadly, because of the winds, the planes had to be grounded, so it was then the fire dept left to fight on ground level. JMO

For the Palisades Fire, the LA Times article said of the first person to report the fire (the North Piedra Morada Drive home):

“When Libonati and his sister first spied the fire, he said, it was about two miles from their home.”

He was the first to report the Palisades fire. He's still battling to save his home

Nic Libonati and his sister were sipping Turkish tea when they spotted and were the first to report the Palisades fire. His home is still in danger.

www.yahoo.com