CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

[oceanblueeyes]

I haven't seen any documents that says the bottom of the balcony is 11 ft from the ground. Which documents? The autopsy is very clear that her hanging was a 9 ft long drop. 9ft is listed in several places.

Jjenny, do you have the link handy to the full autopsy report?

tia

 

[sdcali]

There is a set of footprints then not even a fool foot print close to the railing. That suggest she hopped onto the balcony then hopped one more time and fell off. When would she be binding her hands while on the balcony? If she stopped on the balcony to bind her hands I would expect more footprints.

And I would like to ask this. Why would Rebecca hop? She could just shuffle out there and do the same thing. Here is my theory of why there are "hop" prints versus "shuffling".

Unconscious/dead bodies can't be manipulated to shuffle.

There are only two distinct sets of bare footprints. The first is close to the inside edge of the balcony nearest the bedroom. The second are closer to the railing, but not right up to it. The balcony is not deep --26-29 inches. It appears to be easy enough for someone else to place her bound body out onto the balcony, pushing it onto the railing--the toes sliding backwards as she is hoisted manually (another rope attached to her bound feet to lift her) from inside the bedroom.

(the italicized portion is a theory that has already been posted here)

 

[belimom]

Okay, going to try this again since the other one really blew the margins. Here's a photo that may help with how far down the rope was hanging:

(ETA: Keep in mind that the rope is slack with no weight pulling it down further in these photos).

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz-courtyard.jpg

 

[IWannaKnow]

What is the depth from balcony to mansion wall/vegetation. If her head was 2-3 ft below balcony - would she have been able to swing and hit wall/vegetatin with enough impact to cause all these wounds?

The autopsy states that her feet were 26-1/2" from the ground. She was too low for the cactus to do this, unless it is cactus from the Little Shop of Horrors. They were describing bruises, not puncture holes you would get from running into a cactus. Those are on her back. Plus, the majority of the plant angles away from the balcony.

 

[jjenny]

Even in the drawing she appears to be on her side. In the helicopter images she is more on her side than on her back because the hands are bound behind her back preventing her from being laid on her back. Why was livor mortis on the posterior? Even assuming it shifted because it wasn't completely fixed after at least 3 and a half hours of hanging shouldn't it have been on her side because that's how she was laid down?

 

[elfie]

Hey Sunnie, nice to see you here.
I thought I'd stray away from the JonBenet forum and see what trouble I could get into elsewhere.

One of the many things that struck me about the case is that there should have been more serious spinal injuries if we accept the police theory that she jumped/fell from the balcony.
A fall involving that distance recreates an execution, or judicial style of hanging involving intentional spinal fracture, does it not?
Although there are a few “formulas” out there for the distance needed to execute a prisoner by hanging, an 8 foot drop is suggested for someone of RN’s weight.
The autopsy report indicates she fell 9 feet, 2 inches.

The "Long drop" or measured drop method.
In 1872, William Marwood introduced the concept of an accurately calculated drop for the execution of Frederick Horry at Lincoln prison, as a scientifically worked out way of giving the prisoner a humane death. This concept had been developed by doctors in Ireland and was in use there by the mid 1850’s. Longer drops were in use elsewhere by this time, e.g. in America, but the short drop was still used by many countries at this time e.g. Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland & Russia.
The long drop method was designed to break the prisoner’s neck by allowing them to fall a pre-determined distance and then be brought up with a sharp jerk by the rope. At the end of the drop, the body is still accelerating under the force of gravity but the head is constrained by the noose. If the eyelet is positioned under the left angle of the jaw it rotates the head backwards, which combined with the downward momentum of the body, breaks the neck and ruptures the spinal cord causing instant deep unconsciousness and rapid death. The later use of the brass eyelet in the noose tended to break the neck with more certainty. It is only in the last six inches or so of the drop that the physical damage to the neck and vertebrae occur as the rope constricts the neck and the force is applied to the vertebrae. The duration of this part of the process is between 0.02 and 0.03 of a second depending upon the length of drop given. Generally the diameter of the noose is found to have reduced some five to seven inches after the drop.

Weight of prisoner: 105 lbs. & under
Drop in feet & inches: 8’ 0”
Ft/lbs energy developed: 840

…

It takes between a half and three quarters of a second for a person to reach the end of the drop after the trap opens. The force produced by the prisoner's body weight multiplied by the length of fall and the force of gravity, coupled with the position of the noose is designed to violently jerk the person’s head backwards and sideways. In medical terms this is known as hyperflexion of the neck, which causes fracture-dislocation of the upper neck vertebrae, ideally between the C2 & C3 vertebrae, crushing or severing the spinal cord leading to immediate unconsciousness. The cause of death is however comatose asphyxia as the rope constricts the carotid artery and the jugular vein. The Phrenic nerve which controls the diaphragm emerges between the C3 and C4 vertebrae and thus if the fracture occurs above C4 the person's breathing ceases immediately.

Here is an excerpt from an autopsy report involving judicial hanging:

Fracture - dislocation of the spine at C2 with a 2 inch gap and transverse separation of the spinal cord at the same level.
Fracture of both wings of the Hyoid and R. wing of the Thyroid cartilage, larynx also fractured.
http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging2.html

For RN we see the following:
“There are no fractures of the cervical vertebrae and no epidural, subdural, or subarachnoid hemorrhage of the spinal cord. There is no spinal cord softening. The atlanto-occipital junction is intact.”

Certainly adds to the mystery since she was said to have dropped 9 feet. Thanks for providing the scientific background info. Along with other recently discussed info regarding livor mortis, and staining on the face, the hanging itself could be called into question.

 

[deanna82437]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenego...ng-face-zahau-case-will-reopen-if-new-lead/2/

The historic Spreckels Mansion whose balcony Zahau is said to have jumped (or fallen) from, is, by the way, on the market for $16.9 million. Shacknai’s company may also be on the market having been the target of a possible takeover by Valeant Pharmaceuticals this August.

 

[belimom]

The autopsy states that her feet were 26-1/2" from the ground. She was too low for the cactus to do this, unless it is cactus from the Little Shop of Horrors. They were describing bruises, not puncture holes you would get from running into a cactus. Those are on her back. Plus, the majority of the plant angles away from the balcony.

bbm

How do they know this if the rope was cut? Sure, they can try to reconstruct the scene but they don't know 100% if that is true.

In looking at the diagram and photo, I'm not sure that her feet weren't touching the ground when AS cut the rope. I just don't see how it's possible. This whole case is hinky. MOO

 

[IWannaKnow]

bbm

How do they know this if the rope was cut? Sure, they can try to reconstruct the scene but they don't know 100% if that is true.

In looking at the diagram and photo, I'm not sure that her feet weren't touching the ground when AS cut the rope. I just don't see how it's possible. This whole case is hinky. MOO

I don't know how they figured it, they didn't bother to tell us (along with lots of other stuff) but that is what the autopsy clearly states on page 3.

The distance from the balcony railing to the knot on the neck ligature (the minimum distance of the drop), with tension applied, was 110 inches (9 feet, 2 inches), which would have placed her feet approximately just over 2 feet (26-1/2 inches) above the ground.

Keep in mind her legs were bent when she was laid on the grass. I don't know if their approximation intended her to be stretched out fully or the way she was found.

 

[tvscum]

Jjenny, do you have the link handy to the full autopsy report?

tia

RZ:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

MS:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

 

[belimom]

Does someone have a link to the autopsy? TIA... (ETA: I see it above - thanks!)

 

[jjenny]

bbm

How do they know this if the rope was cut? Sure, they can try to reconstruct the scene but they don't know 100% if that is true.

In looking at the diagram and photo, I'm not sure that her feet weren't touching the ground when AS cut the rope. I just don't see how it's possible. This whole case is hinky. MOO

If it was cut in one place should be easy to figure out how long it was before being cut. If we could find any documents stating how high the balcony is from the ground that would be very useful.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I know this was discussed many pages ago but I'm not gonna go try to find it. I think that cactus is a Cereus repandus, Peruvian apple cactus.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereus_repandus"]Cereus repandus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Cereus-peruvians.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Cereus-peruvians.jpg/220px-Cereus-peruvians.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/7c/Cereus-peruvians.jpg/220px-Cereus-peruvians.jpg[/ame]

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/54386/
This has some closeups of the thorn pattern.

Hope I have the right one.

 

[elfie]

If someone was trying to strangle her, would she have defensive wounds to her hands? Chipped nail polish? Anything to indicate she tried to fight? She wasn't drugged so if that happened I'd expect some kind of defensive wounds.

Which leads me to the bruising, etc... on Rebecca. I don't find bruising odd. She was an athlete and active. I have a shin bruise now from pulling a muscle running, and a bruise on my hip from slamming a hand weight into it. It's more than possible the bruises were older injuries, as were the scabbed knees. MOO

There are still the 4 hemorrhages on her scalp that were unaccounted for, sufficient to have rendered her unconscious at least temporarily.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

RZ:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

MS:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

Thank you so much, tvscum. I have bookmarked them this time. lol

It does say she was found in a supine position.

su·pine&#8194; &#8194;/adj. su&#712;pa&#618;n; n. &#712;supa&#618;n/ Show Spelled[adj. soo-pahyn; n. soo-pahyn] Show IPA
adjective
1. lying on the back, face or front upward.

 

[deanna82437]

Trying to catch up here, but here's another link from the Forbes link I posted ..

http://jezebel.com/5837843/does-this-sound-like-a-suicide-to-you

 

[jjenny]

Thank you so much, tvscum. I have bookmarked them this time. lol

It does say she was found in a supine position.

su·pine&#8194; &#8194;/adj. su&#712;pa&#618;n; n. &#712;supa&#618;n/ Show Spelled[adj. soo-pahyn; n. soo-pahyn] Show IPA
adjective
1. lying on the back, face or front upward.

It might say that but we have the photos and the hands behind her back prevent her from being put flat on her back, she is somewhat sidewise.

 

[sdcali]

I wasn't aware that LE stated AS' DNA was not on the shirt but I also don't think it matters because I don't believe AS killed RN. I don't believe if he were the killer, he would admit to the cops that he removed the shirt from her mouth nor would he have left her bound. He would want it to look like a suicide rather than a murder.

JMO

BBM

IMO, if he did not report that he removed the shirt from her mouth and they found her saliva on it and his DNA, there would be more suspicion regarding why he would withhold that info...

Apparently, it has been somewhat convincing that it looked like a suicide (at first)

 

[sdcali]

If someone was trying to strangle her, would she have defensive wounds to her hands? Chipped nail polish? Anything to indicate she tried to fight? She wasn't drugged so if that happened I'd expect some kind of defensive wounds.

Which leads me to the bruising, etc... on Rebecca. I don't find bruising odd. She was an athlete and active. I have a shin bruise now from pulling a muscle running, and a bruise on my hip from slamming a hand weight into it. It's more than possible the bruises were older injuries, as were the scabbed knees. MOO

BBM

Perhaps as she came out of the shower, wrapped in a towel, she was surprised and hit over the head....then strangled...

 

[BrownRice]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenego...ng-face-zahau-case-will-reopen-if-new-lead/2/

The historic Spreckels Mansion whose balcony Zahau is said to have jumped (or fallen) from, is, by the way, on the market for $16.9 million. Shacknai’s company may also be on the market having been the target of a possible takeover by Valeant Pharmaceuticals this August.

The for sale link is from 2006. I do not believe the house is currently on the market.