CA - Rebecca Zahau Wrongful Death Revisited 2019

[GeorgiaRai]

What if Rebecca did tie the ropes around her arms and legs but intended only to injure, not kill, herself when she jumped?

How likely would it be for someone to bind her own hands and feet, gag herself, measure a rope to the exact length needed to suspend herself in mid-air, tie the rope around her own neck, and fall or jump off a balcony...and expect to be injured, but not killed?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I would just like to point out that the only evidence that Rebecca was ever actually hanging from the balcony is Adam Shacknai's word.

 

[Laughing]

I would just like to point out that the only evidence that Rebecca was ever actually hanging from the balcony is Adam Shacknai's word.

Since the deceased' throat was somehow not included in the autopsy, that is currently true.

Likely evidence present if/when the throat is available.

How could a deceased person's throat be misplaced or permanently lost in a medical examiner's office?

Apparently the San Diego Sheriff's Department and Cali's Attorney General at the time did not see that as unusual. Odd, I'm an old genealogist and not a medical examiner, but gosh it seems that the throat could provide needed information in a case of death by hanging. Bruises not matched to the rope, perhaps? Bruises the size of a man's hands, hypothetically?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[leavetheguntakethecannoli]

San Diego Sheriff Bill Gore Announces He Will Not Seek a Fourth Term in 2022

Perhaps Gore’s replacement will be open to taking another look into Rebecca’s case…

 

[Betty P]

San Diego Sheriff Bill Gore Announces He Will Not Seek a Fourth Term in 2022

Perhaps Gore’s replacement will be open to taking another look into Rebecca’s case…

I'm not disappointed to read that news.

 

[Burma]

How likely would it be for someone to bind her own hands and feet, gag herself, measure a rope to the exact length needed to suspend herself in mid-air, tie the rope around her own neck, and fall or jump off a balcony...and expect to be injured, but not killed?

I may have said this before, why is there no paint on Rebecca's hands?
If she was painting on the door and slopping paint all over herself why is there no paint on the grasping sides of her hands and fingers. Further why is there no paint droplets on her legs or feet from painting on the door?
I would expect that in her haste to paint a cryptic message on the door there would be paint evidence on her legs identifying her as the author of the message. There is no paint smears or droplets on her legs, or feet there is nothing to show that Rebecca painted the cryptic message on the door.
gore should turn Rebecca's case over to a different agency.

 

[Seattle1]

I may have said this before, why is there no paint on Rebecca's hands?
If she was painting on the door and slopping paint all over herself why is there no paint on the grasping sides of her hands and fingers. Further why is there no paint droplets on her legs or feet from painting on the door?
I would expect that in her haste to paint a cryptic message on the door there would be paint evidence on her legs identifying her as the author of the message. There is no paint smears or droplets on her legs, or feet there is nothing to show that Rebecca painted the cryptic message on the door.
gore should turn Rebecca's case over to a different agency.

And probably no paint in Rebecca's hair or t-shirt either!

 

[minazoe]

interesting, no paint..are we sure of this? I don't think I ever heard there was paint..and I didn't really even think about it..I wonder if there was smeared paint on the tube..very interesting...I don't know if it should be on her legs or feet for sure..but somewhere even microscopically on her hands , under a nail....some of that paint could likely appear ..if there is absolutely no paint evidence..it doesn't surprise me at all because she didn't paint anything that night. interesting. mOO

 

[Seattle1]

I may have said this before, why is there no paint on Rebecca's hands?
If she was painting on the door and slopping paint all over herself why is there no paint on the grasping sides of her hands and fingers. Further why is there no paint droplets on her legs or feet from painting on the door?
I would expect that in her haste to paint a cryptic message on the door there would be paint evidence on her legs identifying her as the author of the message. There is no paint smears or droplets on her legs, or feet there is nothing to show that Rebecca painted the cryptic message on the door.
gore should turn Rebecca's case over to a different agency.

@Burma -- any comments on this info citing SDCSD and Mr. Greer:

According to the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department, Zahau’s thumbprint was found on the cap of a black paint tube. The paint was also found on her right hand, left breast, right nipple, right upper chest, right upper index finger and neck.

Greer believes that Adam Shacknai painted the message, then applied paint to Zahau.

“It’s like somebody pinched her nipples,” Greer said. “She has black paint there.” He added that paint was also found on the rope, but not on the gag, suggesting the gag may have already been in place.

Evidence From The Rebecca Zahau Scene That Raises Questions About If Her Death Was A Suicide | Oxygen Official Site 6/10/2019

 

[Angleterre]

Since the deceased' throat was somehow not included in the autopsy, that is currently true.

Likely evidence present if/when the throat is available.

How could a deceased person's throat be misplaced or permanently lost in a medical examiner's office?

Apparently the San Diego Sheriff's Department and Cali's Attorney General at the time did not see that as unusual. Odd, I'm an old genealogist and not a medical examiner, but gosh it seems that the throat could provide needed information in a case of death by hanging. Bruises not matched to the rope, perhaps? Bruises the size of a man's hands, hypothetically?

jmho ymmv lrr

What? I’ve been to many suspicious death/murder post mortems as a Detective Chief Inspector/SIO .
The throat would be be examined in situ as part of the whole body scan of all parts of the body examined before the heart , liver, lungs etc are removed to be weighed and internal injuries looked for and a biopsy to be taken, before being replaced back inside the body. I have NEVER heard of a throat being removed- NEVER. Have I read this wrong?

 

[Betty P]

interesting, no paint..are we sure of this? I don't think I ever heard there was paint..and I didn't really even think about it..I wonder if there was smeared paint on the tube..very interesting...I don't know if it should be on her legs or feet for sure..but somewhere even microscopically on her hands , under a nail....some of that paint could likely appear ..if there is absolutely no paint evidence..it doesn't surprise me at all because she didn't paint anything that night. interesting. mOO

I admit I tested the SDSO explanation for the paint. IIRC, they claimed there was black paint on her breasts and that it got there from drips while she painted the message on the door in the nude.

I was painting my front door a new color and (fully clothed of course) tried to brush on the paint in a way that would cause it to spatter on my chest area. I discovered for that to happen you would have to be almost pressed against the door for paint to drip to your chest area. Your face would have to be so close to the surface of the door that you wouldn't be able to look up to see the words you're painting without leaning back. I even used an artist's paint brush, as opposed to a regular 2 or 3 inch brush. The paint couldn't have spattered much, if at all. There were no spatters in photos of the door nor any mention of them elsewhere in the reports.

I'm disappointed that we have to wait until 2022 for Sheriff Gore to leave.

 

[Betty P]

What? I’ve been to many suspicious death/murder post mortems as a Detective Chief Inspector/SIO .
The throat would be be examined in situ as part of the whole body scan of all parts of the body examined before the heart , liver, lungs etc are removed to be weighed and internal injuries looked for and a biopsy to be taken, before being replaced back inside the body. I have NEVER heard of a throat being removed- NEVER. Have I read this wrong?

Unfortunately, you didn't read it wrong. The throat was removed and no one knows what happened to it. If questioned about it, SD investigators responded the way they always do - annoyance that civilians should ask such silly questions.

There is enough evidence of her hyoid bone fracture and other structures, as Paul Holes examined them and commented at how little damage was done. Perhaps there are photos, etc. to examine.

How Could Rebecca Zahau Have Survived A Long-Drop Hanging Without Breaking Her Neck | Oxygen Official Site

 

[Angleterre]

Unfortunately, you didn't read it wrong. The throat was removed and no one knows what happened to it. If questioned about it, SD investigators responded the way they always do - annoyance that civilians should ask such silly questions.

There is enough evidence of her hyoid bone and other structures, as Paul Holes examined them and commented at how little damage was done. Perhaps there are photos, etc. to examine.

How Could Rebecca Zahau Have Survived A Long-Drop Hanging Without Breaking Her Neck | Oxygen Official Site

If there was little damage to her hyoid bone then that is inconsistent IMOO from what I have seen over the years ( a Senior investigative officer MUST attend all Home Office Post Mortems for murder and suspicious deaths ) when someone is found hanging. This stinks ! Truly it does ……

 

[Angleterre]

I admit I tested the SDSO explanation for the paint. IIRC, they claimed there was black paint on her breasts and that it got there from drips while she painted the message on the door in the nude.

I was painting my front door a new color and (fully clothed of course) tried to brush on the paint in a way that would cause it to spatter on my chest area. I discovered for that to happen you would have to be almost pressed against the door for paint to drip to your chest area. Your face would have to be so close to the surface of the door that you wouldn't be able to look up to see the words you're painting without leaning back. I even used an artist's paint brush, as opposed to a regular 2 or 3 inch brush. The paint couldn't have spattered much, if at all. There were no spatters in photos of the door nor any mention of them elsewhere in the reports.

I'm disappointed that we have to wait until 2022 for Sheriff Gore to leave.

Could the family afford to pay for a private post mortem to be done again or at the very least engage the services of one to go through RZ post mortem report. What if it were allowed , for example for a British specialist pathologist to either perform an independent post mortem or at the very least to examine the post mortem and notes and report already done, would it be allowed? Would the original PM Dr in the USA allow this and if he did, would it be allowed to stand scrutiny in a US Court?

 

[Betty P]

Could the family afford to pay for a private post mortem to be done again or at the very least engage the services of one to go through RZ post mortem report. What if it were allowed , for example for a British specialist pathologist to either perform an independent post mortem or at the very least to examine the post mortem and notes and report already done, would it be allowed? Would the original PM Dr in the USA allow this and if he did, would it be allowed to stand scrutiny in a US Court?

Yes, they did hire Dr. Cyril Wecht, who did a second autopsy back in 2012 or 2013. He issued a report and discussed his findings on the Dr. Phil Show. There should be links to that here in Rebecca's sub-forum. I'll see if I can find it. When Burma checks back in, he can probably provide more information.

Here's an interview with Dr. Wecht around the time of the civil trial a few years ago

 

[Burma]

And probably no paint in Rebecca's hair or t-shirt either!

Correct there is no paint on the t-shirt. The shirt was used as a gag before the paint was used. Not a suicide, Rebecca was murdered.

 

[Burma]

@Burma -- any comments on this info citing SDCSD and Mr. Greer:

According to the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department, Zahau’s thumbprint was found on the cap of a black paint tube. The paint was also found on her right hand, left breast, right nipple, right upper chest, right upper index finger and neck.

Greer believes that Adam Shacknai painted the message, then applied paint to Zahau.

“It’s like somebody pinched her nipples,” Greer said. “She has black paint there.” He added that paint was also found on the rope, but not on the gag, suggesting the gag may have already been in place.

Evidence From The Rebecca Zahau Scene That Raises Questions About If Her Death Was A Suicide | Oxygen Official Site 6/10/2019

The paint tube was found with the cap open and Rebecca's print on the lid of the cap. No paint on the grasping portions of her hands.

 

[Burma]

This is evidence of a second person on scene when Adam called 911. Who is this person? Why did Adam and SDSD say he was alone with no other living person on scene with him but their voice can be heard and is recorded on the 911 call. Just another reason a different agency needs to review and investigative Rebecca's murder.
Voice Biometrics & the Rebecca Zahau Case -

 

[Betty P]

This is evidence of a second person on scene when Adam called 911. Who is this person? Why did Adam and SDSD say he was alone with no other living person on scene with him but their voice can be heard and is recorded on the 911 call. Just another reason a different agency needs to review and investigative Rebecca's murder.
Voice Biometrics & the Rebecca Zahau Case -

Wow! That's the first time I've heard the 911 recording with Adam saying to someone "Hold her still". That 911 call has always been suspicious.

Do you have any idea who it might have been with Adam as he made the 911 call?

 

[Seattle1]

This is evidence of a second person on scene when Adam called 911. Who is this person? Why did Adam and SDSD say he was alone with no other living person on scene with him but their voice can be heard and is recorded on the 911 call. Just another reason a different agency needs to review and investigative Rebecca's murder.
Voice Biometrics & the Rebecca Zahau Case -

Fascinating discovery! I also recall at one point, AS stating something to the effect that he'd call back.