CA CA - Rose Cole, 16, Oakland, 1972 - #2

[Dr. Doogie]

Brenda just sent me a PM after seeing your question. She said:

brenda ****: hi they were asking about the postcard i have that and the date on the card is jan 16 1973

Shadow205:

As you may be aware, this date is of great interest to me. What was the topic of this postcard?

 

[tuitsweet]

Dr Doogie,
IIRC, the postcard Rose sent to her family was actually written in Dec of 1972, but not mailed until Jan/Feb 1973, because she didn't have a stamp ??? She was asking to come home(I think?) and that she ran away from Synanon....

 

[Dr. Doogie]

It is probably nothing more than coincidence, but evidently this postcard was mailed from San Francisco on the same day that Anna Christian Waters disappeared from Half Moon Bay (about 20 miles away). And Rose was known to have gone to a free clinic for treatment of a kidney infection in SF - exactly the sort of clinic that Anna's father who we suspect as being involved with Anna's disappearance worked at.

Was this postcard the last known communication from Rose?

 

[christine2448]

It is probably nothing more than coincidence, but evidently this postcard was mailed from San Francisco on the same day that Anna Christian Waters disappeared from Half Moon Bay (about 20 miles away). And Rose was known to have gone to a free clinic for treatment of a kidney infection in SF - exactly the sort of clinic that Anna's father who we suspect as being involved with Anna's disappearance worked at.

Was this postcard the last known communication from Rose?

WOW, that is quite the coinkidink!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

WOW, that is quite the coinkidink!

I may be chasing coinkidinks, but its better than chasing my tail (which I do a lot of on the ACW thread). LOL!

 

[christine2448]

I may be chasing coinkidinks, but its better than chasing my tail (which I do a lot of on the ACW thread). LOL!

LOL...seriously though, that is really strange, that the dates line up like that, people, circumstances, I got chills when I read your post!

I have to admit, I am one that has a strong belief that nothing happens by accident, there are NO coincendences, sooooooooooooooo.....

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

It is probably nothing more than coincidence, but evidently this postcard was mailed from San Francisco on the same day that Anna Christian Waters disappeared from Half Moon Bay (about 20 miles away). And Rose was known to have gone to a free clinic for treatment of a kidney infection in SF - exactly the sort of clinic that Anna's father who we suspect as being involved with Anna's disappearance worked at.

Was this postcard the last known communication from Rose?

Dr.D. This is exactly where I was going when I wrote the question. The postcard was different than the letter that was written in Dec 72. It was sent to Roses step Mom and the last communication that anyone is aware of. She only mentioned it later when things started getting heated up around here. From what I remember she either tossed it out or misplaced it, so no ones knows exactly what it says. I remember there was talk of a kidney infection in SF. In one of the previous letters she wrote that "they are treating me good". I've thought for a while that these 2 cases might be related, but I have been known to chase dead ends.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Sorry about the multiple post. I think I'm confused. Is this a different post card written to Brenda, or is it the one Step-mom received and Brenda now has it? If Brenda has it, do you think she would tell us exactly what it says or post a pic of it like Annette did with the other letters?

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I guess what is confusing me here is that the card does not currently exist, yet we know it was dated on 12/23/1972 and was sent 1/16/1973. I can see how something dated on Rose's birthday would stick in somebody's mind, but how sure are we that the postmark was 1/16/73?

The dates are of interest to me because the December 1972 date aligns closely with an incident that occured where a woman and a man attempted to lure Anna into vehicle near her home (The attempt was thwarted by Anna's brothers). Then the 1/16/73 date matches exactly the date that Anna disappeared.

One of the researchers on Anna's case has the hypothesis that whoever the abducter is may be listed as a missing person themselves - this would allow them to have gained a "daughter" without having to explain to any family or friends where this new five-year-old girl came from. The description of the woman in the car could be a description of Rose (though Rose would have been a bit younger than the woman was described). I also cannot fathom what a sixteen year old girl would want with a five-year-old girl.

The mystery deepens...

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I copied and pasted this info from the previous thread. This was an outline of the detail from her last actual LETTER, (not post card)

Letter details:

• It was written on her birthday Dec 23, 1972 but mailed Feb 3, 1973 because she didn't have a stamp
• A year has passed since she left to California
• She describes her life in living in the streets
• She can sleep ~ nightmares
• Her letters have not been answered, this one is address to her Mom, the other ones where to her siblings
• She talks about a baby. Billy had a baby at 19 with his girlfriend at the time~ not married ~ a lot of stress around that at home (Billy the oldest child, step brother ~ everyone including my husband loves BIlly best ~ he stood up to his stepfather Jesse Joseph and protected the other kids from bullies at school ~
• Norma and Opal are the youngest ones, when the judge sentenced her, he said that he couldn't sent her home because there were two small kids (Pose & Norma) that she would put at risk
• She asks for Norma's forgiveness (maybe from the letter to Pose)
• She doesn't like her looks, she feels she looks like her real Mom, Willie
• she talks about poor and rich people, it may be a stretch but maybe people with money ~ able to pay for prostitution?????
• She want to be love, and feels guilt which is normal under the circumstances but she talks very nicely about her Dad. I find that strange! Given the fact he is the only one with access to the letters, maybe he had a heart after all.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

This is the info on the post card orginally posted by shadow205:

had a conversation with Brenda (Roses sister by adoption) who is Opal's daughter last night via instant messenger. She gave me some information that I had never heard before. The letter that Rose wrote on her 16th birthday was NOT the last one that Opal received from Rose. Opal got a post card dated 01/18/73. It was a picture of the Sunset Bay Bridge. I am not sure exactly what Rose said on the post card. Opal received another letter later in 1973 but she is unsure of when. In that letter Rose told her that she was in China Town. She said that she was sick, had a kidney infection but was afraid to go to the Doctor. She was afraid of being caught and taken back to Synanon. She told Opal that she was not going to write anymore for fear of Synanon finding her. She said that she would find Opal no matter where she was once she turned 18.

In reference to what was posted earlier about the Jane Doe in CA being ruled out based on dental records, according to Opal, Rose never had any dental work. Opal says that the only thing that Rose ever had done was routine cleaning. However, she did say that her daughter Norma, had some dental work done on her front teeth at the dentist mention above. Is it possible that Norma and Roses dental work have been mixed up?

I hope that Opal can find the last letter that she got from Rose so we can have a date. I'll post as soon as I know.

I have invited Brenda to join WS's. I know that she was reading here last night.
__________________

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

What would be most excellent to know is if the post card was written on 1-16 or 1-18 of 1973. It would be AWESOME to know what it says.

I'm afraid that Roses family has either given up hope finding her, or they have figured it out and decided to respect her privacy, (Which is very understandable). IsabellePR hasn't been on for so long. Please come back and let us know what is going on. I've only been following Roses story for a few months and I already feel a bond, I can't imagine what some of the old timers on this site feel, who have done a lot of the ground work.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

...Opal got a post card dated 01/18/73. It was a picture of the Sunset Bay Bridge...

I suspect that the picture was of the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge at sunset (a typical type of photo for a "touristy" card). To my knowledge, there is no "Sunset Bay Bridge" in the Bay Area. (I mention this not to nitpick, just to prevent someone from expending too much time trying to locate this bridge.)

The baby that was mentioned by Rose (you indicated that it was "Billy's"): who is Billy and was he back in Michigan or in SF area? (Sorry that I am probably asking questions that most posters here already know, but I had only been lightly following this thread until now. Thanks!)

 

[Shadow205]

What would be most excellent to know is if the post card was written on 1-16 or 1-18 of 1973. It would be AWESOME to know what it says.

I'm afraid that Roses family has either given up hope finding her, or they have figured it out and decided to respect her privacy, (Which is very understandable). IsabellePR hasn't been on for so long. Please come back and let us know what is going on. I've only been following Roses story for a few months and I already feel a bond, I can't imagine what some of the old timers on this site feel, who have done a lot of the ground work.

I sent IsabellaPR an email yesterday asking her to try and stop in and give us an update if there is anything to update. If not just touch base so we know that she is still with us on in the search for Rose.
I know that Brenda still keeps up with what goes on here.

 

[SherlockJr]

I started reading Rose's threads this morning and have just finished. I do not think there is any connection with Anna Waters.

One thing I want to draw your attention to is in Rose's letter to home. She talks about being in the "game" when others were telling her that Rick told them her family did not want her back home. This is on page 1 of the December 15, 1972 letter. Then somewhere in Part I, someone posted a Richard Ofshe who worked at Synanon who talked about hanging out in the cafeteria. Could the "Rick" who supposedly talked to Rose's family be the same "Richard Ofshe"? This Richard Ofshe would have been 31 years old in 1972.

I'm also discouraged by the fact the family has stopped posting. I keep hoping this is not another "Delia" case. I do want to commend everyone on the work that has been done on Rose Cole. Very impressive.

 

[itsreenw]

The baby that was mentioned by Rose (you indicated that it was "Billy's"): who is Billy and was he back in Michigan or in SF area? (Sorry that I am probably asking questions that most posters here already know, but I had only been lightly following this thread until now. Thanks!)

Doogie, Billy was Rose's stepbrother. It was suggested that Rose's dad ruled the household with an iron fist. Billy was the one sibling that stood up to the dad for the other kids. He was said to be everyone's favorite brother. He was in MI with the rest of the family. Rose was asking how the baby was. I don't think she ever got to see him.

On another note, Awhile back I think I posted that I was trying to get Rose listed on the MI MP site. I got a call from a Lt. Sipes from the MI State Police.
He referred me to Sgt Hosmer, who was researching the case. Because I have been handling some personal matters, Pias from HOTT was kind enough to take over for me. She called and left a msg for him on 3/7. No word yet. I'm sure she will update me as soon as she hears back.

I have emailed Yannette but no reply.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Check out the two photos I have linked and tell me it they look like Rose to any of you. On the Christine Shannon page there are 2 photos of her. The one with the long hair is the most stunning to me. Compare them with all the Rose pictures and let me know what you think. I realize the birth dates are 6 months off, but still, I about fell off of my seat when I saw her.

Also, after many hours of research, I found it to be semi common for Peoples Temple members to turn to the Synanon, and vice versa. Actually some survivors of Jonestone spent time with the Synanon after the murder/suicide in Guyana. (Some for several years until the synanon shut down) Some people who escaped the synanon in the early 70's found refuge at the SF Peoples Temple compound. Some say there was a power struggle/ rival between Jones and Dederich

Rose
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/[email protected]/detail?.dir=246a&.dnm=c0b6.jpg&.src=ph

Christine
http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/WhoDied/bio.php?Id=63

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Wow, no one has checked out the pics yet? Everyone must be at the ANS thread, that section seems to get a lot of sleuthing done on it.:doh:


Well, Christine checks out negative, as far as public records go. I found her birth records and did a lot of research on her family. She appears to be the youngest biological "Talley" sibling of 5 adults (4 sisters and 1 brother) who went to Jonestown together with 4 kids. (Children of 2 of the sisters).

Oddly she turns out to be the aunt of a girl named Georgianne Brady (DOB 12-23-65) that I thought a while back resembled Anna Waters. What's really wild is thats Georgianne's B-day is Rose's B-day with the year transposed. (I didn't notice that weeks ago)

The weirdest part is this supposed bio-family of 9 went to Guyana around the same time but each had a different date of entry except for 2 cousins. Georgianne was the first to go and was there 12 days before her mother or any other family ever got there. All of the children where there before their parents and 2 of the kids where there 3 months before their mother got there. Really makes you wonder if these where really their children and how much Jones got away with as far as birth records and passports, adoptions etc...

Guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not convinced by California Birth records that Christine is not Rose. I also think that Rose and Anna Waters both ended up in the Peoples Temple, (I wrote my theory on Anna on her thread)...This particular "Talley" family may or not be part of the picture but until I can find someone who will talk to me I can't rule it out. I'm always looking at other options.

 

[Shadow205]

I see some similarities. Do you know the date on the picture of this Christine?
I can assure you that I am not on the ANS thread. I wish some of these other cases could get a fraction of the attention that is getting. Such a waste of media time to go over the same thing over and over.​

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I see some similarities. Do you know the date on the picture of this Christine?

I can assure you that I am not on the ANS thread. I wish some of these other cases could get a fraction of the attention that is getting. Such a waste of media time to go over the same thing over and over.​

I was being a smarty pants wasn't I? ...my bad. But geez, there's 40 to 70 people viewing that thread at any given time, good grief. ANYWAY...

Most all of the B&W pictures that they have on Jonestown.sdsu are passport pictures I believe I read somewhere. It's really hard to say when any of them actually got their passports, some could have done it weeks to months before the fact. Most every person has 2 pictures. A black & white and a color photo, though some only have one. Many of the pics look like they are taken years apart judging by hair length etc. So NO, I don't have a clue.