CA - Sara Jane Olson/Kathleen Solia

  • #61
IN both cases they were younger children.
I have never believed that Patty was brainwashed ... she went along willingly and her dad bought her a good defense.

I lived through those years, and I agree that PH was not brainwashed. I wonder if everyone knows that her father paid an undisclosed sum to the victim's family. And, why did she (alone) of those who served time receive a Presidential pardon?

Finally, why did the others involved serve only two/three years, while Olson was given 14 (reduced for good behavior)?

The police union says they are "relieved" Olson is back in prison? Is this woman really a threat to society?
 
  • #62
I lived through those years, and I agree that PH was not brainwashed. I wonder if everyone knows that her father paid an undisclosed sum to the victim's family. And, why did she (alone) of those who served time receive a Presidential pardon?

Finally, why did the others involved serve only two/three years, while Olson was given 14 (reduced for good behavior)?

The police union says they are "relieved" Olson is back in prison? Is this woman really a threat to society?
But being a threat is not the issue! Alot of criminals reform and can lead productive lives, even murderers, that doesn't mean they should not be punished for what they did. If she was that remorseful and changed SO much then she would want to serve her time out of respect for her victims families and make amends with them the best she can.
 
  • #63
But being a threat is not the issue! Alot of criminals reform and can lead productive lives, even murderers, that doesn't mean they should not be punished for what they did. If she was that remorseful and changed SO much then she would want to serve her time out of respect for her victims families and make amends with them the best she can.

Isn't this what she's doing? When officials came for her at the airport, she did NOT give them a problem. Is one more year really going to make that much difference? (2 years = 1 for good behavior. She has not posed a problem while in prison.) Her new date is May 2009.

What about Patty Hearst? Did she wish to serve time (she did, however) and make amends (her dad did - paid $)? Would things have been different if PH was not from a well-known, wealthy family?
 
  • #64
:blowkiss:
Isn't this what she's doing? When officials came for her at the airport, she did NOT give them a problem. Is one more year really going to make that much difference? (2 years = 1 for good behavior. She has not posed a problem while in prison.) Her new date is May 2009.

What about Patty Hearst? Did she wish to serve time (she did, however) and make amends (her dad did - paid $)? Would things have been different if PH was not from a well-known, wealthy family?[/QUOTE

If she was not from a prominent well to do family she would probably not have served any jail time. Public opinion was against her when she was finally captured and she went through a trial and was convicted. People thought she was a rich spoiled extremist. F. Lee Bailey did a terrible job defending her. When the public later found out she was kept in a closet for over a month and raped countless times sentiment changed and President Carter pardoned her. I don't know what money and victim you are talking about but when she was first kidnapped Patti asked her father for money to establish a breakfast program for Oakland children. He complied but hesitantly...and less money that she requested..the only good thing that came out of this. As I said before, when Patty Hearst was kidnapped from her Berkeley condo under a hail of bullets wearing her nightgown, she was a nineteen year old apolitical girl who graduated from a Catholic boarding school. She was in restraints carried away and her boyfriend was beaten up. Her big rebellion at the time was that she was living with her boyfriend and her parents disapproved. After being kidnapped, she slowly was given more freedom and joined the SLA ranks. When she got out of their clutches she was gradually unindoctrinated, but by this time she had lost four years of her life. Ironically she later married her bodyguard.
 
  • #65
Isn't this what she's doing? When officials came for her at the airport, she did NOT give them a problem. Is one more year really going to make that much difference? (2 years = 1 for good behavior. She has not posed a problem while in prison.) Her new date is May 2009.

What about Patty Hearst? Did she wish to serve time (she did, however) and make amends (her dad did - paid $)? Would things have been different if PH was not from a well-known, wealthy family?
I am not really familiar with the details of PH, so can't make a call on her i am not even sure I belive the brainwashing thing. i am not sure what her crimes were either. if she helped in a murder like KS did, the she should still be serving time.
Where was KS all the years on the run? She could have cooperated with LE or turned herself in at anytime. She knew she was wanted and why. She didn't turn herself in though, to me that speaks volumes. Her, her family, her supporters can suck it up and be quiet and let her serve her last year, after all she was free for how long? She still has her whole life ahead too when she gets out, she isn't old by any means. I just can not make myself pity her.
 
  • #66
I am not really familiar with the details of PH, so can't make a call on her i am not even sure I belive the brainwashing thing. i am not sure what her crimes were either. if she helped in a murder like KS did, the she should still be serving time.
Where was KS all the years on the run? She could have cooperated with LE or turned herself in at anytime. She knew she was wanted and why. She didn't turn herself in though, to me that speaks volumes. Her, her family, her supporters can suck it up and be quiet and let her serve her last year, after all she was free for how long? She still has her whole life ahead too when she gets out, she isn't old by any means. I just can not make myself pity her.

Patty Hearst participated in the Hibernia Bank Robbery in San Francisco where two people were wounded and survived. I'm not sure about brainwashing but many scientists feel it is a real phenomena. The other fact is that she did not seek the SLA out, but was kidnapped and raped and tortured. Hers was not a conscious decision to join the SLA so I think this diminishes her guilt although not entirely. The other SLA members were enthusiastic and active supporters who joined the organazation on their own. Patty Hearst served two years before she was pardoned by President Carter.
 
  • #67
When Patty Hearst was kidnapped there was a hail of bullets. fired into her condo. There still are some bullet holes on the building. She was pulled out of her condo in her nightgown and restrained. Her boyfriend Steven Weed was beaten up. Pictures of him were in the paper. Unfortunately PH was not well represented by F Lee Bailey and the family was very disappointed in the case he presented. She participated in a bank robbery and many people felt she should been given a break by President Carter (not Ford) for the very obvious reason she was kidnapped in the first place. He later pardoned her.

Maybe a more academic writing would be beneficial:

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/hearst/hearstdolaccount.html

Why, then, did Bailey opt for the brainwashing theory? One reason is because that was the theory that Hearst's parents wanted him to use--and they were paying for his defense. Randolph and Catherine Hearst seemed unwilling to accept that their daughter would voluntarily choose to become an SLA member. Another reason might have been Bailey's fear that arguing in this case that Hearst's voluntary conversion came after the Hibernia robbery would expose her to a future prosecution for her shooting outside Mel's Sporting Goods store a month after the bank robbery. Bailey also had a psychiatrist ready to testify that Patty "was not responsible for her actions" and felt confident of his own ability to sway jurors on the brainwashing theory. Finally, it is possible that Bailey's holding book rights to the Patty Hearst story influenced his decision; brainwashing, it might be assumed, would make for a good story line and boost his recently sagging criminal practice.

The decision to go with the brainwashing theory meant that Hearst would have to take the stand to describe in some detail how the brainwashing took place. Unfortunately for her case, the jurors didn't believe a lot of what they heard from her. For example, after Hearst described being "raped" by SLA member William Wolfe (or "Cujo") and telling jurors "I hated him," the prosecution produced the love trinket, the so-called Olmec monkey, found in her purse after arrest, that Wolfe had given her. Asked to explain why she would keep a gift in her purse from a rapist that she hated, Hearst answered lamely that she "like art" and took classes in art history. If the love trinket wasn't enough to explain, there was also Patty's own words in her June 7 communique, in which she called Cujo "the gentlest, most beautiful man I've ever known." In his cross-examination of Hearst, Browning repeatedly turned to the defendant's own writings, in the form of the "Tania Interview" (personal reflections written during Patty's so-called "missing year" with the SLA), to undercut her testimony that she was something other than an enthusiastic radical.
 
  • #68
Maybe a more academic writing would be beneficial: I think the "more academic" phrase is
meant to hurt my feelings and it has. Please don't compare my writing. I'm doing my best.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/hearst/hearstdolaccount.html

Why, then, did Bailey opt for the brainwashing theory? One reason is because that was the theory that Hearst's parents wanted him to use--and they were paying for his defense. Randolph and Catherine Hearst seemed unwilling to accept that their daughter would voluntarily choose to become an SLA member. Another reason might have been Bailey's fear that arguing in this case that Hearst's voluntary conversion came after the Hibernia robbery would expose her to a future prosecution for her shooting outside Mel's Sporting Goods store a month after the bank robbery. Bailey also had a psychiatrist ready to testify that Patty "was not responsible for her actions" and felt confident of his own ability to sway jurors on the brainwashing theory. Finally, it is possible that Bailey's holding book rights to the Patty Hearst story influenced his decision; brainwashing, it might be assumed, would make for a good story line and boost his recently sagging criminal practice.

The decision to go with the brainwashing theory meant that Hearst would have to take the stand to describe in some detail how the brainwashing took place. Unfortunately for her case, the jurors didn't believe a lot of what they heard from her. For example, after Hearst described being "raped" by SLA member William Wolfe (or "Cujo") and telling jurors "I hated him," the prosecution produced the love trinket, the so-called Olmec monkey, found in her purse after arrest, that Wolfe had given her. Asked to explain why she would keep a gift in her purse from a rapist that she hated, Hearst answered lamely that she "like art" and took classes in art history. If the love trinket wasn't enough to explain, there was also Patty's own words in her June 7 communique, in which she called Cujo "the gentlest, most beautiful man I've ever known." In his cross-examination of Hearst, Browning repeatedly turned to the defendant's own writings, in the form of the "Tania Interview" (personal reflections written during Patty's so-called "missing year" with the SLA), to undercut her testimony that she was something other than an enthusiastic radical.[/QU

Thanx for your link. I provided a link several posts back which I hope you read because it clarifies my opinions. I definitely agree that Patty Hearst showed real inconsistencies, but again my whole point is that she wouldn't have been "Tania" if she hadn't been kidnapped. I think Patty Hearst did join the SLA but the kidnapping diminished some (not all) of her guilt. There is a timeline with Patty. Before the kidnapping she never mentioned the SLA, during the kidnapping she was Tania and very supportive of the SLA, and after she was renouncing her "Tania" statements. You are very correct that the Hearsts were worried about Bailey's defense and his plans to write a book Obviously the jury didn't buy the brainwashing defense theory either. Some people felt Patty was a spoiled heiress and should be punished.

I do know that the Kathleen Soliah took part in murderer, attempted bombing, and bankrobbery. Kathleen Soliah was running with the SLA of her own accord and was involved in attempted bombing of a police car. She was very lucky because if she had killed all those police officers she never would have seen the light of day. KS disappeared when the police were closing in. Patti Hearst was a small part of this saga, but obviously people still remember her part in it. KS was with Patty "Tania" during her time in SF and really KS knew most of the SLA's terrible secrets. KS was a violent terrorist who needs to recognize and accept her responsibility. I think as a poster on this thread I'm going to stay with the topic of Kathleen Soliah who is in the news now. Enough of Patty Hearst.
 
  • #69
Is this woman really a threat to society?

A woman who is willing to plant bombs under police cars?:doh: I think yeah!
 
  • #70
Maybe a more academic writing would be beneficial: I think the "more academic" phrase is
meant to hurt my feelings and it has. Please don't compare my writing. I'm doing my best.

Thanx for your link. I provided a link several posts back which I hope you read because it clarifies my opinions. I definitely agree that Patty Hearst showed real inconsistencies, but again my whole point is that she wouldn't have been "Tania" if she hadn't been kidnapped. I think Patty Hearst did join the SLA but the kidnapping diminished some (not all) of her guilt. There is a timeline with Patty. Before the kidnapping she never mentioned the SLA, during the kidnapping she was Tania and very supportive of the SLA, and after she was renouncing her "Tania" statements. You are very correct that the Hearsts were worried about Bailey's defense and his plans to write a book Obviously the jury didn't buy the brainwashing defense theory either. Some people felt Patty was a spoiled heiress and should be punished.

I do know that the Kathleen Soliah took part in murderer, attempted bombing, and bankrobbery. Kathleen Soliah was running with the SLA of her own accord and was involved in attempted bombing of a police car. She was very lucky because if she had killed all those police officers she never would have seen the light of day. KS disappeared when the police were closing in. Patti Hearst was a small part of this saga, but obviously people still remember her part in it. KS was with Patty "Tania" during her time in SF and really KS knew most of the SLA's terrible secrets. KS was a violent terrorist who needs to recognize and accept her responsibility. I think as a poster on this thread I'm going to stay with the topic of Kathleen Soliah who is in the news now. Enough of Patty Hearst.

The reference was NOT toward your writing but to reading more of an academic answer. I certainly did not mean to hurt your feelings. It's just that there is so much out there about MJO that just scratches the surface. If you read deeper, there's more to the PH case.
 
  • #71
Thank you for posting that. You are very kind to clarify. I've been registered a long time but I am a newby posting. I agree. There are many facets to this case and I did notice that you said you remembered the case. You seem to have a lot of info. I was raised in the neighborhood that Patty Hearst was hanging out in when she was kidnapped. I visited my mother the day the Hibernia bank was robbed and she told me she was mad because the bank was closed and there were a lot of policemen around. Poor thing couldn't deposit her check. The bank was only about a mile and a half from where Patty lived.
 
  • #72
man they want to take the good time work program away which entitles her to a 50% reduction in her sentence. this is going to be interesting.


LA wants gov to ensure Sara Jane Olson does full time

LOS ANGELES—The City Council on Wednesday endorsed a resolution asking Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to ensure that former Symbionese Liberation Army member Sara Jane Olson serves her full sentence and any parole in California.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8948319
 
  • #73
There are quite a few criminals who committed violent crimes, escaped LE and never hurt anyone else for years and years. For instance, did John List commit any crimes during the nearly two decades he was a fugitive?

I expect all of them, if caught, to serve time. I don't give out freebies.
 
  • #74
UPDATED: 12:40 pm PDT April 29, 2008
SACRAMENTO -- A Sacramento County judge has declined to free former 1970s radical Sara Jane Olson after she was sent back to prison following a mixup by state corrections officials.

In a ruling made public Tuesday, the judge says Olson had not shown that corrections officials acted illegally. more at link:
http://www.ktvu.com/news/15677314/detail.html
 
  • #75
UPDATED: 12:40 pm PDT April 29, 2008
SACRAMENTO -- A Sacramento County judge has declined to free former 1970s radical Sara Jane Olson after she was sent back to prison following a mixup by state corrections officials.

In a ruling made public Tuesday, the judge says Olson had not shown that corrections officials acted illegally. more at link:
http://www.ktvu.com/news/15677314/detail.html
see this is the part I agree with. I guarantee you she knew this was an error.
>>In his ruling, which was signed on April 21, the judge said Olson should have known that she had been released too early.

"She has not shown that she was ignorant of the facts," wrote Cecil, who ruled without holding a hearing. "She was surely aware that she had been sentenced to a consecutive two-year term for her conviction in Sacramento County."<<
 
  • #76
see this is the part I agree with. I guarantee you she knew this was an error.
>>In his ruling, which was signed on April 21, the judge said Olson should have known that she had been released too early.

"She has not shown that she was ignorant of the facts," wrote Cecil, who ruled without holding a hearing. "She was surely aware that she had been sentenced to a consecutive two-year term for her conviction in Sacramento County."<<

Oh I know. I think she's arrogant and in contempt of the law all those years on the run her attitude for having to serve her time.
 
  • #77
By DON THOMPSON &#8211; 8 hours ago
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) &#8212; A saga that began in the violent cauldron of California's 1970s radical counterculture and took a dramatic turn into a quiet middle-class neighborhood in Minnesota is about to come to an end.
Sara Jane Olson, who was a fugitive for a quarter-century after attempting to kill Los Angeles police officers and participating in a deadly bank robbery near Sacramento as a member of the Symbionese Liberation Army, is scheduled to be released from a California prison next week.
Her bid for freedom after serving seven years is not ending quietly.
Police leagues in Los Angeles and Minnesota are objecting to the terms of her parole, her attorneys are nervous after Olson was mistakenly released and sent back to prison a year ago, and people in her home state have conflicting views about the return of a woman with two identities &#8212; a quiet, caring community volunteer and a domestic terrorist.
Olson was freed by California corrections officials a year ago when they miscalculated her parole date. She was re-arrested five days later as she was about to board a flight to Minnesota, the state she adopted as her home during her life on the run. more at link: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iCvqJ7PjTjtpMIEhEaYSuR4dm0SQD96UL2D01
 
  • #78
HEre are some interesting articles http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/08/14/783/57392

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Soliah

Im confused a little - she did this attempted murder of the police officers in 1970 as a part of a terrorist plot..but escaped custody went on to marry and have kids etc

and then was arrested in 2001 and has been in prison and is now 62..

I mean is she STILL a threat ? still doing terrorist things ? or was she a STUPID NAIVE idiot that had a lucky escape of NOT Murdering anyone by pure luck for those policmen and has never done a thing wrong since ?/
 
  • #79
It doesn't matter if she's still a threat today... what matters is that justice is served for the crimes she committed... and ran from. All of the victims these slimeballs effected deserve some kind of closure.
 
  • #80
She needs to serve the sentence for her crime(s). She needs to serve that sentence fully and only be paroled if the parole board deems it advisable after considering her victims objections (if there are any objections).

She deserves no special treatment because while she evaded prosecution that she went on to build a life and to good deeds. That life and those good deeds were done on borrowed time, time in which, she should have been repaying society. JMHO.
 

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