CA Schools Curriculum: Inclusive of Historical Accomplishments of Gay Men & Lesbians

[Kimberlyd125]

I think it is disgusting NOT because of homosexuality but because sexual preference should not come into school at all! These are school children! LGBT is not the same as Jewish, Native American, women's rights, early settlers, etc. Some of those people may have been gay, some may have liked being spanked - and I don't care but I don't want my grandkid studying sexuality in grade school.

ITA

But if you are in California, you have no choice.
Why can't these be elective classes???
Why can't patents decide???

It's being forced upon our children.

It's taking away our parental rights.

It's saying what we believe and teach our children means nothing.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

What next? History of famous left handed people and their accomplishments?

How about history of people who smoke pot.
California loves pot.

 

[miimaa]

Sorry, K, it took me awhile to find a site that answered your question:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/14/california-gay-history-law-jerry-brown_n_898745.html


The bill gives school districts great latitude in implementing the law and does not specify at what grade level references to gay history must begin.

I think school districts will do whatever is age appropriate.

We have kids committing suicide at 12 or 13 because they are bullied for being gay or for being perceived as gay. Nothing in this bill requires the teaching of graphic sexual details. I'll defer to the experts on childhood development, but I see no reason why students shouldn't be made aware of gay historical figures in late grade school.

My grandchildren (ages 5 through 11) know they have two gay grandparents who are married. To them, it just means we love each other and live together like their parents do.

I guess I am ignorant of what this is all about. In my mind gay = sexual choice; sexuality and imo that is a private matter between two consenting ADULTS.

 

[miimaa]

Sorry, K, it took me awhile to find a site that answered your question:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/14/california-gay-history-law-jerry-brown_n_898745.html


The bill gives school districts great latitude in implementing the law and does not specify at what grade level references to gay history must begin.

I think school districts will do whatever is age appropriate.

We have kids committing suicide at 12 or 13 because they are bullied for being gay or for being perceived as gay. Nothing in this bill requires the teaching of graphic sexual details. I'll defer to the experts on childhood development, but I see no reason why students shouldn't be made aware of gay historical figures in late grade school.

My grandchildren (ages 5 through 11) know they have two gay grandparents who are married. To them, it just means we love each other and live together like their parents do.

How is gay, lesbian, bisexual defined if sex is removed from the description?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I guess I am ignorant of what this is all about. In my mind gay = sexual choice; sexuality and imo that is a private matter between two consenting ADULTS.

History has nothing to do with sexual orientation IMO.

As you say, sex is a private matter. What you do in your bedroom is none of my business.
I will not judge you.

I have many friends who are gay. I have a family member who is gay. I love them all.

But the gov needs to stop forcing gay issues down our children's throats.

At 5 years old no doubt.

 

[Emma Peel]

http://ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=8945&MediaType=1&Category=26

The Rev. Louis Sheldon, chairman and founder of the Traditional Values Coalition (TVC), said the bill “molested” the minds of children.

“It is an outrage that Governor Jerry Brown has opened the classroom door for homosexual activists to indoctrinate the minds of California's youth, since no factual materials would be allowed to be presented. By signing SB 48 today, California's classrooms, textbooks and instructional materials will all become pro-homosexual promotion tools.”

“We are talking about molesting the minds of young impressionable youth, as young as kindergarten, with an agenda and message that is not age-appropriate and that is offensive to the values of a vast majority of California's families.”

Randy Thomasson of the Christian conservative group Save California added that children will be “forced” to admire gay people.

“The bill he [Brown] signed prohibits teachers and textbooks from telling children the facts that homosexuality has the highest rate of HIV/AIDS and other STDs, higher cancer rates, and earlier deaths,” Thomasson said in a statement. “These important facts about lifestyles children will being [sic] forced to admire will be omitted.”

“This revisionist history will actually make more children believe a lie – that homosexuality is biological, which it's not, and healthy, which it isn't.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_P._Sheldon

The Southern Poverty Law Center lists Traditional Values Coalition - TVC as a hate group.

Sheldon has authored one book:

The Agenda: The Homosexual Plan to Change America. Frontline. 2005. ISBN 1-59185-796-1.

http://www.splcenter.org/who-we-are

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a nonprofit civil rights organization dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry, and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of society.

Founded by civil rights lawyers Morris Dees and Joseph Levin Jr. in 1971, the SPLC is internationally known for tracking and exposing the activities of hate groups. Our innovative Teaching Tolerance program produces and distributes – free of charge – documentary films, books, lesson plans and other materials that promote tolerance and respect in our nation’s schools.

We are based in Montgomery, Ala., the birthplace of the modern civil rights movement, and have offices in Atlanta, New Orleans, Miami, Fla., and Jackson, Miss.

 

[pghbrandi]

History has nothing to do with sexual orientation IMO.

As you say, sex is a private matter. What you do in your bedroom is none of my business.
I will not judge you.

I have many friends who are gay. I have a family member who is gay. I love them all.

But the gov needs to stop forcing gay issues down our children's throats.

At 5 years old no doubt.

I totally agree. My youngest is starting Kindergarten this year. He would have NO clue what they were talking about. Nor should he. That is way to young and I feel a persons sexual preference has no importance on what they have accomplished in life. To me, it's labeling people and aren't people usually complaining about being labeled????

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I totally agree. My youngest is starting Kindergarten this year. He would have NO clue what they were talking about. Nor should he. That is way to young and I feel a persons sexual preference has no importance on what they have accomplished in life. To me, it's labeling people and aren't people usually complaining about being labeled????

Right!

 

[southcitymom]

I'm curious why another thread was started when there's an active thread in the Political Pavilion?

Don't know - maybe it's because a lot of WSers don't wander into the PP.....

 

[Emma Peel]

California Radio Talk Show on you-tube on this debate.

Randy Thomasson of the Christian conservative group Save California

and

Mark Leno - who introduced the bill to the legislature

are the guests.


[video=youtube;7RlzsVSdARA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlzsVSdARA&feature=player_embedded[/video]

 

[southcitymom]

I totally agree. My youngest is starting Kindergarten this year. He would have NO clue what they were talking about. Nor should he. That is way to young and I feel a persons sexual preference has no importance on what they have accomplished in life. To me, it's labeling people and aren't people usually complaining about being labeled????

When mine were in K, they had a vague, child-like notion of "gay" because we have some gay friends and even at the age of 5, they knew it was less common for two women or two men to be partners than for a woman and a man to be partners.

They are now 8 and 10, and we have discussed gay rights as an offshoot of the civil rights movement for AAs in this country.

My boys were exposed in early elementary years to MLK and all that jazz, and from that vantage point it is a natural progression to discuss the "political" aspect of homosexuality as a civil rights issue. It's not a sexual thing to kids this young, of course.

Like Nova, I always grind my teeth a little at the thought of the government deciding what constitutes history, but the reality is that of course the government, in charge of public schooling, has to determine the curriculum. And of course, like anyone else, I'd like the things I believe to make the cut.

Still, it's complicated because "gay" as an identification is a pretty new concept.

I'm all about talking about these things.

Of course, I would also be all about religious study and instruction in public schools. To this day, I'm not quite sure how you can study any subject without considering the aspects of religion (in this country, mainly a Judeo/Christian history) that are intertwined with English, Science, History.....just about every subject I can think of.

I feel like kids today are living in the middle of a historic movement (gay civil rights), so there's really no running from that and I'd rather it be studied and discussed than ignored.

MOO, of course!

 

[southcitymom]

What next? History of famous left handed people and their accomplishments?

If left-handed people had historically been treated as poorly as gay people or AAs and had been denied certain inalienable rights based on their lefthandedness, I would be all about this!

 

[pghbrandi]

When mine were in K, they had a vague, child-like notion of "gay" because we have some gay friends and even at the age of 5, they knew it was less common for two women or two men to be partners than for a woman and a man to be partners.

They are now 8 and 10, and we have discussed gay rights as an offshoot of the civil rights movement for AAs in this country.

My boys were exposed in early elementary years to MLK and all that jazz, and from that vantage point it is a natural progression to discuss the "political" aspect of homosexuality as a civil rights issue. It's not a sexual thing to kids this young, of course.

Like Nova, I always grind my teeth a little at the thought of the government deciding what constitutes history, but the reality is that of course the government, in charge of public schooling, has to determine the curriculum. And of course, like anyone else, I'd like the things I believe to make the cut.

Still, it's complicated because "gay" as an identification is a pretty new concept.

I'm all about talking about these things.

Of course, I would also be all about religious study and instruction in public schools. To this day, I'm not quite sure how you can study any subject without considering the aspects of religion (in this country, mainly a Judeo/Christian history) that are intertwined with English, Science, History.....just about every subject I can think of.

I feel like kids today are living in the middle of a historic movement (gay civil rights), so there's really no running from that and I'd rather it be studied and discussed than ignored.

MOO, of course!

I'm not necessarily against certain things being taught at schools, but the age of five is way to young in my opinion. Five year old kids should be doing what five year old kids do. There seems to be no innocence left in kids anymore and stuff like this is the reason why. Again, my opinion. I am sure if I had close gay friends, my kids would know about it. If it comes up in conversation from something they have seen or heard, I will not ignore it. I'm honest with them.
I just don't feel it should be shoved at them, especially so young.

 

[southcitymom]

ITA

But if you are in California, you have no choice.
Why can't these be elective classes???
Why can't patents decide???

It's being forced upon our children.

It's taking away our parental rights.

It's saying what we believe and teach our children means nothing.

I definitely get your point and your angst, but (in our family, at least) when a school teaches something to our kids that we might feel differently about that makes for some excellent discussions and a chance to educate.

The only school in the world that is going to teach my kids everything I believe would be homeschool! And I don't homeschool, so I have to accept that if I send them to a school they will undoubtedly be exposed to things I might not believe myself. This doesn't bother me or make me feel like my parental rights don't count.

For the rest of their journey on planet Earth my kids are going to run smack into many, many different beliefs and ideas. There's no way I can stop that and I wouldn't try even if I could. Learning about different opinions and different ways of viewing the beliefs of others is key to discovering what your own beliefs about any given subject may be.

 

[miimaa]

If left-handed people had historically been treated as poorly as gay people or AAs and had been denied certain inalienable rights based on their lefthandedness, I would be all about this!

Historically treated as poorly as gay people or African Americans? I think not! Had gay persons ever been enslaved? Ever forced to ride in the back of the bus? Ever made to drink from separate water fountains? Remember school segregation? To compare gay people to African Americans is outright wrong! How have gay persons civil rights been violated? Because they could not legally marry? They can now. Many companies offer insurance for domestic partners. There simply is no comparison between the two.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm not necessarily against certain things being taught at schools, but the age of five is way to young in my opinion. Five year old kids should be doing what five year old kids do. There seems to be no innocence left in kids anymore and stuff like this is the reason why. Again, my opinion. I am sure if I had close gay friends, my kids would know about it. If it comes up in conversation from something they have seen or heard, I will not ignore it. I'm honest with them.
I just don't feel it should be shoved at them, especially so young.

I hear you. I'm sure it depends on the family. Because we do have gay friends and relatives, my very young kids always had a pretty natural understanding of it, and I have never felt like it harmed their innocence.

As I said in my earlier post, any school besides home school is going to "shove" (though that's not necessarily the word I'd use) its particular curriculum at my kids. For me, 5 year olds learning about laudable homosexuals is no more threatening to their innocence than learning about laudable blacks or whites or Hispanics or Jews (or whatever) or learning about the life cycle of a butterfly.

I'm sure the powers that be aren't going to get into anything inappropriate or hardcore or sexual with 5 year olds!

 

[southcitymom]

Historically treated as poorly as gay people or African Americans? I think not! Had gay persons ever been enslaved? Ever forced to ride in the back of the bus? Ever made to drink from separate water fountains? Remember school segregation? To compare gay people to African Americans is outright wrong! How have gay persons civil rights been violated? Because they could not legally marry? They can now. Many companies offer insurance for domestic partners. There simply is no comparison between the two.

For me, it's not important to decide what subset of humanity has been treated THE worst by those in power (women, blacks, gays, Jews, Christians etc.....SO many people and groups of people have been treated terribly over the course of history based on a collective belief that they are somehow "less than" that we have plenty of examples to choose from).

I just wouldn't place left-handers in that group - that's all I meant in my original post!

 

[pghbrandi]

I hear you. I'm sure it depends on the family. Because we do have gay friends and relatives, my very young kids always had a pretty natural understanding of it, and I have never felt like it harmed their innocence.

As I said in my earlier post, any school besides home school is going to "shove" (though that's not necessarily the word I'd use) it's particular curriculum as my kids. For me, 5 year olds learning about laudable homosexuals is no more threatening to their innocence than learning about laudable blacks or whites or Hispanics or Jews (or whatever) or learning about the life cycle of a butterfly.

I'm sure the powers that be aren't going to get into anything inappropriate or hardcore or sexual with 5 year olds!

I figured it wouldn't get to hardcore with five year olds! (Atleast I hope not!!:crazy I think having kids exposed to different cultures is fantastic. I don't home school either. Not saying it wrong to do, but personally I would not do it. I think it's important for kids to meet others and experience a world not so sheltered and different from there own, but I do feel teaching that at a young age is a mistake. Again, just my opinion

 

[Nova]

I'm curious why another thread was started when there's an active thread in the Political Pavilion?

Probably because many of us don't read or post there any more.

 

[Nova]

Following the logic that claims bulling would be reduced by teaching gay history, perhaps we should begin with historical figures who were obese, or just overweight, the uncoordinated, nerds, and those who were ugly. It's a false claim IMO.


"What the bill calls for is for the contributions of LGBT people to be included," Leno said, adding, "We wrote it broadly for a reason. We would be subject to more criticism than we've already been getting if we were more dictatorial."

Leno said the mandates apply broadly, though, telling reporters it would affect kindergarten through high school curriculum, "and, of course, in an age-appropriate way."



Kindergarten? Really?

I haven't found the precise text of the bill, but per media coverage it doesn't require that gay history be taught in kindergarten or any other specific grade.

But if you a kid in your kindergarten class with two moms or two dads (an increasing possibility whether posters here like it or not), you might very well want to say something. Probably no more than "some people have two moms or two dads" at that age.