CA Schools Curriculum: Inclusive of Historical Accomplishments of Gay Men & Lesbians

[Chewy]

I think the point that is missed on the other side is that people are going to be picked SOLELY based on their sexual orientation, and it's a fairly broad definition. So if there's a requirement to teach kids about a famous transgendered person...and we can only find a recent examples, are we going to choose RuPaul? Because he's black and transgendered? so because he's "an American actor, drag queen, model, author, and singer-songwriter" ??? (and may even be responsible for introducing some of us to the Pre-Estee Lauder MAC make up line....)that's who gets chosen to fit a criteria?

Of course I'm being extreme, but the law is completely ambiguous and allows for teaching to kinders and up about transgender, bi, and gay people who are famous solely for their sexual behavior.

The fact that you have to be extreme to make the point is what I'm talking about. The gay rights movement is part of American history and there are members of that movement that are historical figures.

So we're just supposed to sweep that bit of the way we oppressed and continue to oppress homosexuals under the rug and pretend it's NOT part of American history?

It wouldn't BE a part of American history if people were not bigots.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Would some families still wish to opt out of a learning unit on "there's many ways to be a family" at k-5 level - assuming they were provided curriculum and materials in advance?

I'm not really understanding objections to that - but my understanding is based on my own experience.

The minute my little ones hit public school, I recall wanting/needing to talking about different kinds of families.

I realized I had to, because it was the right thing to do for them.

The families in their classes were often so different than ours - I wanted my children to ask ME and not their classmates why they didn't have a daddy, or why they lived with their grands - for example.

After a matter of fact chat, they accepted that kids could have different kinds of families. And that was that. No biggie.

I guess I don't understand why parents would feel compelled to opt their children out of a learning unit or age-appropriate story in the classroom on this topic. Parents enroll their children in school... then they have to expect it's going to come up naturally as the children get to know each other... and that's how their world begins to expand and that's how they grow and learn their place in their community.

And when it comes up naturally, parents can talk to their children about it. Just as you did. Just as I did.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

There are no bad gay people.

But there have been people who insist that gay people are bad. In a civil rights unit, it makes sense one or two of them would be included the history classes. :yes:

More to your point, while nobody's perfect, role modeling typically assumes the role models fall in the good people doing good things category...

So it's not going to be a true history class.

Because there are many bad people of every type in the world.

There were horrible straight people in history. Horrible white people in history. Horrible gay people in history. Horrible black people in history.

Our history books are full of horrible people.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

"IT" ? They are sharing the accomplishments of members of the LGBT community? Do you really think they are going to teach a bunch of five year olds how gay men have sex?

I love how (not you) but most people opposed to this are trying to spin it like they are going to force little children to learn about gay sex!! When you teach the accomplishments of heterosexual people do you break it down from the start by teaching them how to have sex the straight way?

I swear if it wasn't serious it would be so amusing.

Yes "it".

When you are referring to school subjects, it is often used.

Examples:
I hate math. IT is so hard.
I love science because IT interests me.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The fact that you have to be extreme to make the point is what I'm talking about. The gay rights movement is part of American history and there are members of that movement that are historical figures.

So we're just supposed to sweep that bit of the way we oppressed and continue to oppress homosexuals under the rug and pretend it's NOT part of American history?

It wouldn't BE a part of American history if people were not bigots.

Have you looked up the meaning of the word bigot???

Since many are intolerant to my personal beliefs or opinions, they too are bigots.

So I guess this world is just full of bigots on all issues.

People who have strong beliefs that the gay lifestyle is ok, and those who think it's not ok are all bigots.

Since we are all bigots, the word kinda loses it's punch.

 

[MargotKidder]

Since we are all bigots, the word kinda loses it's punch.

I agree. I feel the same way about the word "agenda". Everyone has one, but everytime I hear it associated with the "gay agenda", I giggle to myself and think...Those pesky gays! They are at it again! LOL:floorlaugh:

 

[Donjeta]

IMO, in the end, beliefs about whether or not gay lifestyle is morally OK have little or nothing to do with whether the children can be taught facts about what gay people have accomplished in this world. People may have done important things even if they've made choices that everyone doesn't approve of. There are some political movements I don't like but it doesn't mean that I'd like to stop the schools from telling my children about their contributions to the development of society, if they've made a difference in something. I don't want to opt out of the chance to let my children learn the facts, if the truth is that sometimes things are not wholly black and white.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

IMO, in the end, beliefs about whether or not gay lifestyle is morally OK have little or nothing to do with whether the children can be taught facts about what gay people have accomplished in this world. People may have done important things even if they've made choices that everyone doesn't approve of. There are some political movements I don't like but it doesn't mean that I'd like to stop the schools from telling my children about their contributions to the development of society, if they've made a difference in something. I don't want to opt out of the chance to let my children learn the facts, if the truth is that sometimes things are not wholly black and white.

BBM - Then you could simply not opt out.

I do want the choice to opt out.

But, I have a long time before I have to worry about it. Thank God I don't live in California.

I just feel for the other parents who have NO CHOICE in the matter.

 

[pghbrandi]

I believe you. And what if one of your kids is gay? Allowing a subject to remain unmentionable confers disapproval whether you mean it or not.

How does knowing that some families have two moms or two dads take away the "innocence" of children? YOU are (ETA inadvertently) the one making same-sex partnerships only about the bedroom. That is the problem.

I am not saying the subject is unmentionable. I just don't think it should be at a young age. I also don't see the point in labeling anyone. That's my whole issue with this. Not that someone is gay.
For my five year old I think it's too young. For my nine year old, knowing about gay people is more acceptable.
What I meant about the innocence was not about the gay thing, it was about the young age of the child they want to start teaching all of this to.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I have tried to tiptoe on this issue as to not offend.

But when I (and others like me) are called bigots because of what we believe as Christians, I am offended.

The fact that I (as a Christian) am not supposed to get into religious debates on WS kinda stunts my conversation on the view of this.

There are millions of Christians in America.
These are OUR children you want to "educate" on matters we feel should be taught at home.

The "families are different" thing is one of those things.

Yes, there are different families and children will notice that and need to be told about it. But SCHOOLS telling our children that it's a great thing is overstepping IMO.

To each their own. But I don't want my child taught that it's normal for two dads or two moms to have a child. I don't feel it is.
Like the book "And Tango Makes Three". I don't agree with using that book to tell very young children it's ok or natural for 2 male birds to have a baby bird.
It's not natural.

Call me a bigot if you wish. But I would much rather be called a Christian.

And I have rights too. Teaching my children about social/lifestyle issues is one of them.

JMO

 

[Charlie09]

I have tried to tiptoe on this issue as to not offend.

But when I (and others like me) are called bigots because of what we believe as Christians, I am offended.

The fact that I (as a Christian) am not supposed to get into religious debates on WS kinda stunts my conversation on the view of this.

There are millions of Christians in America.
These are OUR children you want to "educate" on matters we feel should be taught at home.

The "families are different" thing is one of those things.

Yes, there are different families and children will notice that and need to be told about it. But SCHOOLS telling our children that it's a great thing is overstepping IMO.

To each their own. But I don't want my child taught that it's normal for two dads or two moms to have a child. I don't feel it is.
Like the book "And Tango Makes Three". I don't agree with using that book to tell very young children it's ok or natural for 2 male birds to have a baby bird.
It's not natural.

Call me a bigot if you wish. But I would much rather be called a Christian.

And I have rights too. Teaching my children about social/lifestyle issues is one of them.

JMO

If the worst thing that gets said is a sneer about Christian beliefs, I'm ok with that, that means the argument has been lost and mockery is all that's left. It's the thought police actions of many and having to correct anyway of thinking that's not in lockstep that bothers me.

These are kids, not social experiments. At the end of the day, the law is ambiguous and open to interpretation from one extreme to another. Sneering and mocking from the condescending peanut gallery here at WS doesn't change that there will be abuse of what is acceptable in a normal educational setting.

Our schools need major overhauling. In fact, we may have to demo them completely and start over, I'm not sure it's fixable. Kids don't need to feeeeeeeeeeel better about themselves to learn, they just need to be taught the basics.

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/070128_scores.htm

 

[miimaa]

I have tried to tiptoe on this issue as to not offend.

But when I (and others like me) are called bigots because of what we believe as Christians, I am offended.

The fact that I (as a Christian) am not supposed to get into religious debates on WS kinda stunts my conversation on the view of this.

There are millions of Christians in America.
These are OUR children you want to "educate" on matters we feel should be taught at home.

The "families are different" thing is one of those things.

Yes, there are different families and children will notice that and need to be told about it. But SCHOOLS telling our children that it's a great thing is overstepping IMO.

To each their own. But I don't want my child taught that it's normal for two dads or two moms to have a child. I don't feel it is.
Like the book "And Tango Makes Three". I don't agree with using that book to tell very young children it's ok or natural for 2 male birds to have a baby bird.
It's not natural.

Call me a bigot if you wish. But I would much rather be called a Christian.

And I have rights too. Teaching my children about social/lifestyle issues is one of them.

JMO

THANK YOU

Many are hesitant to say this because that isn't politically correct... or would be accused of being intolerant or hateful or bigoted blah blah blah.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

THANK YOU

Many are hesitant to say this because that isn't politically correct... or would be accused of being intolerant or hateful or bigoted blah blah blah.

I've tried to avoid it. I really have because I do care about how everyone feels.

I'm just tired of being called a bigot because of my beliefs.

 

[Donjeta]

BBM - Then you could simply not opt out.

I do want the choice to opt out.

But, I have a long time before I have to worry about it. Thank God I don't live in California.

I just feel for the other parents who have NO CHOICE in the matter.

There is always the choice of homeschooling.

If children are told at school that there are some families that are different and some gay people have done some important things in this world I don't see anything to opt out of. The opposite is simply not true so why would anybody object to telling the children the facts? That's what we take them through years of school for, to learn. IMO it doesn't threaten the Christian worldview to know those things or to know anything else that is true, and it doesn't make children gays if they're not.

 

[Charlie09]

There is always the choice of homeschooling.

If children are told at school that there are some families that are different and some gay people have done some important things in this world I don't see anything to opt out of. The opposite is simply not true so why would anybody object to telling the children the facts? That's what we take them through years of school for, to learn. IMO it doesn't threaten the Christian worldview to know those things or to know anything else that is true, and it doesn't make children gays if they're not.

Homeschooling is an AWESOME choice. One that I can't speak highly enough of or recommend highly enough. Parents should have a right though, to be involved in the curriculum at the schools their children are attending that they help fund - and opt out as they choose.

 

[MargotKidder]

I have tried to tiptoe on this issue as to not offend.

But when I (and others like me) are called bigots because of what we believe as Christians, I am offended.

The fact that I (as a Christian) am not supposed to get into religious debates on WS kinda stunts my conversation on the view of this.

There are millions of Christians in America.
These are OUR children you want to "educate" on matters we feel should be taught at home.

The "families are different" thing is one of those things.

Yes, there are different families and children will notice that and need to be told about it. But SCHOOLS telling our children that it's a great thing is overstepping IMO.

To each their own. But I don't want my child taught that it's normal for two dads or two moms to have a child. I don't feel it is.
Like the book "And Tango Makes Three". I don't agree with using that book to tell very young children it's ok or natural for 2 male birds to have a baby bird.
It's not natural.

Call me a bigot if you wish. But I would much rather be called a Christian.

And I have rights too. Teaching my children about social/lifestyle issues is one of them.

JMO

I am a Christian, and I do not feel this way. There are lots of different types of Christians. There are probably some gay families that have children that are Christian, too. Since I am a Gay Christian I will mention I had a straight friend in High School that was raised by two Dads and they attended a gay-affirming Baptist church unaffiliated with The Southern Baptist Convention--that is one example that comes off the top of my head at the moment.

"There are millions of Christians in America"--I am quoting not to be snarky, but because I do not want to go back and edit the post, sorry--I agree, but not all of them subscribe to your type of Christianity. I am not saying that you are a bigot, but I do not think that just because someone is a Christian, that they should automatically be lumped into all the other Christians that would not support this new legislation.

 

[Charlie09]

I am a Christian, and I do not feel this way. There are lots of different types of Christians. There are probably some gay families that have children that are Christian, too. Since I am a Gay Christian I will mention I had a straight friend in High School that was raised by two Dads and they attended a gay-affirming Baptist church unaffiliated with The Southern Baptist Convention--that is one example that comes off the top of my head at the moment.

"There are millions of Christians in America"--I am quoting not to be snarky, but because I do not want to go back and edit the post, sorry--I agree, but not all of them subscribe to your type of Christianity. I am not saying that you are a bigot, but I do not think that just because someone is a Christian, that they should automatically be lumped into all the other Christians that would not support this new legislation.

But the ones that do subscribe to it, should not be called names simply because your version of Christianity disagrees.

 

[Donjeta]

Homeschooling is an AWESOME choice. One that I can't speak highly enough of or recommend highly enough. Parents should have a right though, to be involved in the curriculum at the schools their children are attending that they help fund - and opt out as they choose.

Right, and I'm not saying they shouldn't. And I totally get it when the curriculum has to do with matters of differing personal beliefs (eg. homosexual behavior is/is not morally abhorrent) but not when it's got to do with somewhat confirmed facts told in an age appropriate manner (eg. in 1967 there was this homosexual person who did something and it turned out quite important). I will tell my children my opinions and beliefs about things as I see fit but f I opt out of telling the children the facts whenever the truth is something I don't like I feel like I am lying to them by omission and forcing them to form their opinions on the basis of misleading or insufficient information. If my worldview is to be defensible and worth trying to pass it on to my kids it has got to be compatible with the facts of this world.

Not that anybody knows everything but if I made the choice to deprive my children of certain knowledge I'd have be thinking that it's a significant piece of information that could change the way they interpret things and if it is indeed so, I would fear I'd be setting them at risk of getting to the wrong conclusion, not being in the possession of all the pertinent information.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

There is always the choice of homeschooling.

If children are told at school that there are some families that are different and some gay people have done some important things in this world I don't see anything to opt out of. The opposite is simply not true so why would anybody object to telling the children the facts? That's what we take them through years of school for, to learn. IMO it doesn't threaten the Christian worldview to know those things or to know anything else that is true, and it doesn't make children gays if they're not.

It's not telling them they exist that bothers me.

It's teaching them that it's a good thing.

Not everybody thinks it is.

This should be left up to the parents.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I am a Christian, and I do not feel this way. There are lots of different types of Christians. There are probably some gay families that have children that are Christian, too. Since I am a Gay Christian I will mention I had a straight friend in High School that was raised by two Dads and they attended a gay-affirming Baptist church unaffiliated with The Southern Baptist Convention--that is one example that comes off the top of my head at the moment.

"There are millions of Christians in America"--I am quoting not to be snarky, but because I do not want to go back and edit the post, sorry--I agree, but not all of them subscribe to your type of Christianity. I am not saying that you are a bigot, but I do not think that just because someone is a Christian, that they should automatically be lumped into all the other Christians that would not support this new legislation.

I never intended to lump all Christians in one group.

I am speaking for MY FAMILY and many others like mine.

We treat all people with respect and love. I've mentioned several times that 2 of my best friends are gay and I have a gay person in my family. I love them all and it's not my business what they do.

I do not, however, think it's a school's job to tell my kids things are ok or not.

That's MY job.