GUILTY CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, fake abduction Nov 2016, ARREST MAR 2022 #26

[sassyblue]

A lawyer with extensive experience as a public defender (but no direct connection to the Papini case) who was interviewed thought that Papini was mentally ill. She described a psychiatric condition where the person creates a scenario and then comes to believe that it is literally true. If anyone caught the term that she used, please share.

SBM

It was defense attorney Mary Ellen Attridge and the disorder she cited was Factitious Disorder.

 

[Howl]

SBM
It was defense attorney Mary Ellen Attridge and the disorder she cited was Factitious Disorder.

Thank you! Do you have any thoughts on how this disorder may or may not apply to Sherri Papini?
Edit: I just looked up definitions. The various Munchausen diagnoses fall under this disorder category.

 

[bestill]

I wish you remembered the term used to describe her possible condition!

Good post but I disagree that she’s wholesome looking! She could have been. But to me there has been something unsettling about the way she looks, since the beginning. The poses and stuff I guess. The way she looks at the camera.

BBM, I agree with this! She looks like she's acting.

I really want to know what her family is thinking now and when do they think all of this started? The information that has been shared on here suggest that the mid teens seem to be trigger points.

 

[sassyblue]

Thank you! Do you have any thoughts on how this disorder may or may not apply to Sherri Papini?
Edit: I just looked up definitions. The various Munchausen diagnoses fall under this disorder category.

I didn't particularly find it to be a correct diagnosis for Sherri but I could see how a skilled defense attorney could use it in a trial. I think several posters have thrown out personality disorders that fit her better.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I didn't particularly find it to be a correct diagnosis for Sherri but I could see how a skilled defense attorney could use it in a trial. I think several posters have thrown out personality disorders that fit her better.

Agreed. I don't think factitious disorder fits either because the self-injury was not done in order to gain attention and sympathy and medical care. In fact, she got herself out of the hospital ASAP.

The self-injury was done purely to get herself out of a jam which is a different matter entirely. I think a defense attorney could sell it as factitious disorder if they went about it the right way and convinced the jury that the entire escapade was planned in advance as a factitious manipulation - that Sherri planned the entire dramatic kidnapping and miraculous return with her tale of torture from the beginning and that the entire event was a factitious episode from start to finish. That might even work, actually. She'd still be guilty of the charges, of course, but the sentence may be more lenient.

But I don't personally think it was a planned factitious event. I think she ran away without a concrete plan and just made up a tale on the fly to get herself out of the situation she was in. And that lands squarely in antisocial territory. IMO

 

[gitana1]

I didn't particularly find it to be a correct diagnosis for Sherri but I could see how a skilled defense attorney could use it in a trial. I think several posters have thrown out personality disorders that fit her better.

I just read a description of histrionic applied to Amber Heard in the JohnnyDepp case and that seems to really fit.

Who knows? I will never forget a verified psych expert on the Chris Watts threads explaining that these diagnoses were really created for billing purposes and that it is common that a person doesn’t nearly fit into any one category. So their doctors diagnose them with what fits the best. She said that quite often people for parts of various disorder categories.

It would be interesting to see what a psych assessment would reveal. I imagine a variety of things?

“Histrionic personality disorder, according to Mayo Clinic, is a condition "characterized by dramatic, overly emotional or unpredictable thinking or behavior." In her testimony, Dr. Curry said that those with the condition can tend to take on a "victim" or "princess" role with false stories.”

Doctor Who Evaluated Amber Heard for 12 Hours Says Actress Showed Signs of Personality Disorders

 

[gitana1]

Agreed. I don't think factitious disorder fits either because the self-injury was not done in order to gain attention and sympathy and medical care. In fact, she got herself out of the hospital ASAP.

The self-injury was done purely to get herself out of a jam which is a different matter entirely. I think a defense attorney could sell it as factitious disorder if they went about it the right way and convinced the jury that the entire escapade was planned in advance as a factitious manipulation - that Sherri planned the entire dramatic kidnapping and miraculous return with her tale of torture from the beginning and that the entire event was a factitious episode from start to finish. That might even work, actually. She'd still be guilty of the charges, of course, but the sentence may be more lenient.

But I don't personally think it was a planned factitious event. I think she ran away without a concrete plan and just made up a tale on the fly to get herself out of the situation she was in. And that lands squarely in antisocial territory. IMO

She planned it for an entire year. She got the ex boyfriend involved as well and planned how he would pick her up, having a friend of his rent a car, where he would go to pick her up, using burner phones (one of which she sent him).

After, she kept up the charade, giving bits of “information” to her husband, a little at a time, over the span of months, about the “abduction”, that he called the authorities with each time she revealed more info, in order to help the authorities solve the case.

She also saw a psychologist and pretended the whole time that she was a victim.

I think she didn’t stay in the hospital long because they had no reason to keep her. Her wounds weren’t serious.

However, I think she did lie low to some degree - no public statements nor media interviews- because she saw that few in the public believed her. And she probably didn’t want to press her luck.

But based on the other stories she’s told in the past, and per reports from those who know her, she craves attention and will make up stories to get it.

 

[cujenn81]

I just read a description of histrionic applied to Amber Heard in the JohnnyDepp case and that seems to really fit.

Who knows? I will never forget a verified psych expert on the Chris Watts threads explaining that these diagnoses were really created for billing purposes and that it is common that a person doesn’t nearly fit into any one category. So their doctors diagnose them with what fits the best. She said that quite often people for parts of various disorder categories.

It would be interesting to see what a psych assessment would reveal. I imagine a variety of things?

“Histrionic personality disorder, according to Mayo Clinic, is a condition "characterized by dramatic, overly emotional or unpredictable thinking or behavior." In her testimony, Dr. Curry said that those with the condition can tend to take on a "victim" or "princess" role with false stories.”

Doctor Who Evaluated Amber Heard for 12 Hours Says Actress Showed Signs of Personality Disorders

I agree that it sounds like histrionic. Also! I just remembered how the mother of the missing Smith girl described SP’s behavior when they came over for dinner after she was “rescued”. She said SP appeared very anxious and shaky the entire time and said that Keith even had to accompany her to the bathroom because they said her PTSD was triggered by strange bathrooms or some such nonsense as that.

ETA — this was also on the Dateline episode

 

[Eloise]

I just read a description of histrionic applied to Amber Heard in the JohnnyDepp case and that seems to really fit.

Who knows? I will never forget a verified psych expert on the Chris Watts threads explaining that these diagnoses were really created for billing purposes and that it is common that a person doesn’t nearly fit into any one category. So their doctors diagnose them with what fits the best. She said that quite often people for parts of various disorder categories.

It would be interesting to see what a psych assessment would reveal. I imagine a variety of things?

“Histrionic personality disorder, according to Mayo Clinic, is a condition "characterized by dramatic, overly emotional or unpredictable thinking or behavior." In her testimony, Dr. Curry said that those with the condition can tend to take on a "victim" or "princess" role with false stories.”

Doctor Who Evaluated Amber Heard for 12 Hours Says Actress Showed Signs of Personality Disorders

BBM - Correct! the various editions of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, authored by the American Psychiatric Association but used internationally) and also the ICD (International Classification of Diseases, developed by the WHO) are created so that clinicians can use standard diagnoses, which can then be used by health jurisdictions and other authorities for statistical and billing purposes. Ultimately though, people are individuals and nobody is going to perfectly fit neatly into little boxes. And they get updated, so you can have a diagnosis one year that is changed in the next. For example, Aspergers became a part of ASD in the latest DSM (DSM-5) but you will still hear people diagnosed with Aspergers in the past use that term even though its now deprecated, because it is understood that it became a part of people's identity.

When my son was diagnosed a few years ago, his school put it best - we need that diagnosis on paper, because bureaucratically the school system needs that official diagnosis on paper. But once the kids enter the school gate, they are looked at as individuals, not a diagnosis. I know its the same for therapy too - yes, court and legal systems and education systems etc need to see that 'official' diagnosis but when it comes to therapy etc its about what works for the individual person and there's no one size fits all. And you can have no diagnosis or fit no specific category, but still benefit from therapy etc.

e: for relevance to Sherri... while discussing what mental illness or personality disorders she may have can be 'fun' (I guess), really the only person who can do that is a clinician trained in such diagnosis, sitting with her one on one face to face. Nobody here can do it, and ultimately its not really relevant to what she did IMO, JMO. It is all super interesting though.

 

[gitana1]

I agree that it sounds like histrionic. Also! I just remembered how the mother of the missing Smith girl described SP’s behavior when they came over for dinner after she was “rescued”. She said SP appeared very anxious and shaky the entire time and said that Keith even had to accompany her to the bathroom because they said her PTSD was triggered by strange bathrooms or some such nonsense as that.

ETA — this was also on the Dateline episode

Dang. That’s so sick. She put on a show for attention with the family of an actual missing person. Horrid.

 

[gitana1]

BBM - Correct! the various editions of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, authored by the American Psychiatric Association but used internationally) and also the ICD (International Classification of Diseases, developed by the WHO) are created so that clinicians can use standard diagnoses, which can then be used by health jurisdictions and other authorities for statistical and billing purposes. Ultimately though, people are individuals and nobody is going to perfectly fit neatly into little boxes. And they get updated, so you can have a diagnosis one year that is changed in the next. For example, Aspergers became a part of ASD in the latest DSM (DSM-5) but you will still hear people diagnosed with Aspergers in the past use that term even though its now deprecated, because it is understood that it became a part of people's identity.

When my son was diagnosed a few years ago, his school put it best - we need that diagnosis on paper, because bureaucratically the school system needs that official diagnosis on paper. But once the kids enter the school gate, they are looked at as individuals, not a diagnosis. I know its the same for therapy too - yes, court and legal systems and education systems etc need to see that 'official' diagnosis but when it comes to therapy etc its about what works for the individual person and there's no one size fits all. And you can have no diagnosis or fit no specific category, but still benefit from therapy etc.

e: for relevance to Sherri... while discussing what mental illness or personality disorders she may have can be 'fun' (I guess), really the only person who can do that is a clinician trained in such diagnosis, sitting with her one on one face to face. Nobody here can do it, and ultimately its not really relevant to what she did IMO, JMO. It is all super interesting though.

True. And it would be unethical for any actual psych experts to diagnose someone they haven’t examined!!

But it is interesting to contemplate. And I think it’s natural that we try to figure out how someone like this happens. Especially us websleuthers!

 

[cujenn81]

Sherri Papini's Husband Files for Divorce as New Details In Case Get Revealed by 'Dateline'

She told investigators she had pulled out her own hair while being abducted at gunpoint to leave as a clue for her husband — which in and of itself struck investigators as odd.

"When you look at just the hair alone, hindsight, it was theatrical and not really what fit what she said in her story," Wallace tells Dateline. "I think, ultimately, being able to look at each piece of evidence now with the clarity of what was going on, not just in the moments, but the drama or the theatrics that Sherri brought with every step of this investigation was really part of the undoing."

Papini added an element of racism to the whole thing when, upon her return, she described her captors as two Hispanic women who spoke mostly Spanish and listened to "annoying Mexican music." She claimed they had beaten and branded her.

As KRON4 notes, there is some weird history that locals in the Redding area brought up regarding Papini's possible racist attitudes, and the creation of her fictional kidnappers. Via the FBI affadavit, a 2007 MySpace post by a Sherri Graeff was attributed by some to Papini. The post talked about growing up in Shasta Lake and being harassed by "Latinos" in school. "I used to come home in tears, because I was getting suspended from school all the time for defending myself against the Latinos," this Sherri Graeff wrote. "The chief problem was that I was drug-fee, white and proud of my blood and heritage. This really irked a group of Latino girls, which would constantly rag and attack me.'"

Shasta County Sheriff Michael L. Johnson sounded fully done with the case, and Sherri, in recent comments to the US Sun.

"The bottom line is, this case was about some very strong narcissistic behavior, along with deception, deceit and selfishness. I have a very hard time believing she’s sorry," Johnson said. "She had several opportunities to come clean during the various phases of this investigation and she never did it. Now all of a sudden we’re supposed to believe she’s remorseful for what she did? Well, I just don’t believe that."

 

[Kemug]

But based on the other stories she’s told in the past, and per reports from those who know her, she craves attention and will make up stories to get it.

You would think that her husband would know her best, wouldn't you, but he was one of her major victims. She really played him for a sucker.

 

[evelezrn]

@cujenn81

I totally agree.

RSBM

She told investigators she had pulled out her own hair while being abducted at gunpoint to leave as a clue for her husband — which in and of itself struck investigators as odd.

As for her pulling out her own "signature blonde hair" to leave a clue for her husband while being abducted at gunpoint...

WOW. She had the time and presence of mind to intentionally pull out some hair then wrap up her earphones and place them neatly on top of her phone. Then she laid the phone on the ground AFTER pulling out said "signature blonde hair" to leave as a clue for her husband.

How is that possible?

Sherri Papini's Husband Files for Divorce as New Details In Case Get Revealed by 'Dateline'

She told investigators she had pulled out her own hair while being abducted at gunpoint to leave as a clue for her husband — which in and of itself struck investigators as odd.

"When you look at just the hair alone, hindsight, it was theatrical and not really what fit what she said in her story," Wallace tells Dateline. "I think, ultimately, being able to look at each piece of evidence now with the clarity of what was going on, not just in the moments, but the drama or the theatrics that Sherri brought with every step of this investigation was really part of the undoing."

Papini added an element of racism to the whole thing when, upon her return, she described her captors as two Hispanic women who spoke mostly Spanish and listened to "annoying Mexican music." She claimed they had beaten and branded her.

As KRON4 notes, there is some weird history that locals in the Redding area brought up regarding Papini's possible racist attitudes, and the creation of her fictional kidnappers. Via the FBI affadavit, a 2007 MySpace post by a Sherri Graeff was attributed by some to Papini. The post talked about growing up in Shasta Lake and being harassed by "Latinos" in school. "I used to come home in tears, because I was getting suspended from school all the time for defending myself against the Latinos," this Sherri Graeff wrote. "The chief problem was that I was drug-fee, white and proud of my blood and heritage. This really irked a group of Latino girls, which would constantly rag and attack me.'"

Shasta County Sheriff Michael L. Johnson sounded fully done with the case, and Sherri, in recent comments to the US Sun.

"The bottom line is, this case was about some very strong narcissistic behavior, along with deception, deceit and selfishness. I have a very hard time believing she’s sorry," Johnson said. "She had several opportunities to come clean during the various phases of this investigation and she never did it. Now all of a sudden we’re supposed to believe she’s remorseful for what she did? Well, I just don’t believe that."

 

[gitana1]

Sherri Papini's Husband Files for Divorce as New Details In Case Get Revealed by 'Dateline'

She told investigators she had pulled out her own hair while being abducted at gunpoint to leave as a clue for her husband — which in and of itself struck investigators as odd.

"When you look at just the hair alone, hindsight, it was theatrical and not really what fit what she said in her story," Wallace tells Dateline. "I think, ultimately, being able to look at each piece of evidence now with the clarity of what was going on, not just in the moments, but the drama or the theatrics that Sherri brought with every step of this investigation was really part of the undoing."

Papini added an element of racism to the whole thing when, upon her return, she described her captors as two Hispanic women who spoke mostly Spanish and listened to "annoying Mexican music." She claimed they had beaten and branded her.

As KRON4 notes, there is some weird history that locals in the Redding area brought up regarding Papini's possible racist attitudes, and the creation of her fictional kidnappers. Via the FBI affadavit, a 2007 MySpace post by a Sherri Graeff was attributed by some to Papini. The post talked about growing up in Shasta Lake and being harassed by "Latinos" in school. "I used to come home in tears, because I was getting suspended from school all the time for defending myself against the Latinos," this Sherri Graeff wrote. "The chief problem was that I was drug-fee, white and proud of my blood and heritage. This really irked a group of Latino girls, which would constantly rag and attack me.'"

Shasta County Sheriff Michael L. Johnson sounded fully done with the case, and Sherri, in recent comments to the US Sun.

"The bottom line is, this case was about some very strong narcissistic behavior, along with deception, deceit and selfishness. I have a very hard time believing she’s sorry," Johnson said. "She had several opportunities to come clean during the various phases of this investigation and she never did it. Now all of a sudden we’re supposed to believe she’s remorseful for what she did? Well, I just don’t believe that."

Neither do I, sir.

 

[gitana1]

You would think that her husband would know her best, wouldn't you, but he was one of her major victims. She really played him for a sucker.

Yes! I think it’s typical of women like her to pick husbands that are more passive or accepting. It’s like they pick someone who can act as a foil or backdrop to whatever scene they want to act.

I remember reading about this in a book about Mary Beth Tinning, IIRC.

In this case, you can see from the complaint that her husband kept calling authorities with bits of information that his wife would suddenly “remember”. Sounds like the guy was desperate to help solve it? Super gullible?

And it sounds like she enjoyed the high drama of being too distraught to speak directly to authorities, of having her husband protect her from trauma, and having sudden, terrifying recollections of some part of her abduction, that she could reveal with much emotion to her super concerned husband, who would then immediately contact the detectives with another piece of the puzzle.

 

[cvaldez1975]

@Arkay, attorneys are listed at the top of the document.

Re: use of the term "community." I expect that Cali is a community property state, and the term community means that the family of 4 lived there together.

We called Gitana a few posts back, I don't want to bother her again but will try @cvaldez1975 for an interpretation.

I like the straightforward language!

jmho ymmv lrr

yes ca is community property state.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes. It’s up to the judge and the parties.
There are two types of custody in CA- legal and physical. Legal has to do with decisions like medical/educational regarding the kids and who gets to make those decisions.

Physical has to do with where the kids live, primarily.

Sole legal is more rare these days as the courts want both parents to make decisions regarding the children. Sole physical is also a bit more rare now and mostly has to do with whether a parent who has the children most of the time, can easily move far away, or not. With joint physical custody- which is very generally, parents sharing time either equally or up to about 65/35% split- it’s harder for a parent to move out of state with the kids or far within state. With sole physical custody it’s easier.

If one parent has sole physical custody, that doesn’t mean the other has no court-ordered time with the kids. Visitation, which we tend to call “parenting time” now, with the non-custodial parent, can be supervised by a professional or a relative, can be “reasonable visitation” which tends to be what the custodial parent determines, and/or can be set times including things like every other weekend, mid week visits, half the summer, etc.

When it comes to an incarcerated parent, the best interests of the children is what rules. It’s a legal concept that the judge interprets and each side argues why what they request is in the kids’ best interest.

What can go into that equation is:
1. The age of the child.
2. Will the child be traumatized by prison visits?
3. The relationship between incarcerated parent and child.
4. The accommodations for prison visits at the prison. What the environment is like there.
5. The desires of the child.
6. What the parent is in for.
7. Whether the parent is harmed the child.
8. The distance to prison, schedule of the child and cost of transporting the child.
9. Whether visitation has been ordered to be supervised. Then costs and logistics of having someone monitor the prison visits to make sure the parent is behaving properly during visits, is considered. Who pays for that?

I find prison visits to be rarely ordered. Same with phone calls.

If you’ve got an older child who is close with the parent and has not been harmed by them, it’s more likely to be ordered by the court against the other parent’s will.

Thanks so much G for this info.

 

[girlhasnoname]

You would think that her husband would know her best, wouldn't you, but he was one of her major victims. She really played him for a sucker.

Yes she did. The poor guy really believed her, I feel so sorry for him and the kids.

 

[gitana1]

@Arkay, attorneys are listed at the top of the document.

Re: use of the term "community." I expect that Cali is a community property state, and the term community means that the family of 4 lived there together.

We called Gitana a few posts back, I don't want to bother her again but will try @cvaldez1975 for an interpretation.

I like the straightforward language!

jmho ymmv lrr

I like straightforward language in legal pleadings as well. But that’s a lot of typos and misspellings that make the attorney seem disorganized.