Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #13 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[krkrjx]

I am leaning this way also, that she was in the home, someone was there, or she let them in and it went down hill from there. No shoes means something for me. If she was attacked in the home, she may not have had shoes on, as she was getting ready at the time. She was in her room, getting ready, taking a photo and texting her friend, something happened in a very short time frame. I think the scent was from a previous day, not that day. A dog can't tell you how old the scent is, can they? So if she was all over the home, she could have been taken out the front door into a car just outside, or even another door of the home.

My understanding is that scent dogs can discriminate between fresh scent and older scent. IOW, they track the freshest scent only. If that weren't the case, they would have tracked Sierra all the way to her bus stop given she had walked that way many times over several months.

 

[krkrjx]

OH MY GOSH. The typo's my phone creates. To clarify it is not mourners but peers were able to charge their phones. The amount of texting, myspacing and facebooking we did senior year was insane. Our phones probably hated the amount of times we had to re-charge throughout the day.

LOL. I read it and thought, I know some kids dislike school but...mourners?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

The inhaler and phone charger are big mysteries for me.

Leaving these 2 things at home, for me, indicate Sierra may never have left her home that morning. Someone assaulted her in the home and left the bag and phone as a diversion to shift the crime away from the home.
I believe he needed to make it seem as if Sierra was "kidnapped by someone at random" on her way to school.
LE may know this.

I am beginning to believe that the perp had to make it seem like she was taken on her way to school, because "he knew" Sierra, was allowed into the home by her, and this was something he did not want known, because it would narrow the suspect pool to include him. I am wondering if the door to the home was locked.
LE may not want the suspect knowing they believe it is someone she knew,saying her scent was picked up at the driveway.
He could have been in the house for a long time, knowing when her parents would be home. Let's face it , walking up to the home and spending the time while there to assault Sierra, would be a lot easier than risking being seen taking her from the road.
Then he packs her bag with clothes and books and takes her cell phone. Leaves the house with Sierra alive or dead at the time, plants the bag and phone to reinforce the "Kidnapping by an unknown" The inhaler and charger left behind was were he screwed up.
I only hope if this is so LE are playing along with his game, and are waiting until they get the right evidence to bring him in.:moo:

 

[Annie1004]

A ah-ha moment - the front door was locked, according to LE. But we don't know if it had a dead bolt. Wouldn't keys have been found - whether Sierra locked the door or the perp did if a deadbolt was involved? Are the grey shoes really missing? She could have left the charger and inhaler because she didn't need them at school, as she was planning on coming home after school. Doubt she used her phone so much that it would need a charge during school hours.

Since LE focused on her home immediately (SOP), there's an excellent chance clues were discovered establishing if someone unknown was in the house. And they are being mum. The throwing of the cell phone and purse are like red herrings after the fact. Unless the perp planned on grabbing her immediately outside the house, she could very well have gotten into a car willingly with someone she knew. That's the million dollar question.

Isn't it interesting that nothing else of substance has been released by LE or the family? Surely, evidence has been collected and analyzed, so they have (hopefully) been moving toward a POI and are putting together the pieces. JMO.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just one more thought...

How do I put this..so, I have been running this over and over in my mind. Maybe I've been exposed to this stuff too much...but this could have easily been an a situation where a kid has gone missing. Take away me seeing it. It could have easily been a situation where a kid goes missing...and nobody notices. And I saw it. Take that aspect out...do you know what I'm mean? Like Sierra - It could have been someone who saw something that day, but as you're saying, it's not normal for someone to ackowledge that type of thing. And seriously, some people just don't retain things..they just don't observe like some people would. Hard to digest. I think it is different, but maybe not so much. I saw something that very clearly could have been/be horrible. The reality of that just, I don't know.

People are interesting...not everyone observes like we're talking about in this case. Could be the same with Sierra. Not saying...not even theorizing..but man...to see something like that that 'could be' was very sobering. It makes me feel like 'okay' this is it...this is what simply happens. And then here we are searching for them and putting all of our hearts into finding them..I saw what possibly could be/have been potentially a tragedy.

I just can't get the visual out of my head. It's very real. I don't think I'm over reacting. It happens that simply.

BBM

That is a point I've tried to make over and over in the Kyron Horman case and now with Sierra. Aliens did not transporter either of them. They didn't go poof! and disappear. There were undoubtedly people who saw them but did not retain the memory.

The nature of most human beings is not to notice. Most people see but they don't process the vast majority of what they see. It just rolls right out of their brain.

A simple, every day example. If you are on the street and you notice someone look at their watch, ask them what time it is. Nine times out of 10, the person will look at their watch again. It's because when people look at their watches, they aren't really checking the time, they're busily calculating how much time they have left before X happens or how late they are running. They aren't thinking in terms of what time it really is, only about how the time relates to their lives just then.

So when you ask them what time it is, they have to check again because they didn't really notice what time it was. What they saw was more like "it's 10 minutes until I have to meet Judy" or "uh oh, I'm probably going to be 5 minutes late."

Human memory does not work like a video recording. It just doesn't. And predators know this, in a way that I think most people don't really understand it.

 

[JTribley]

The inhaler and phone charger are big mysteries for me.

Leaving these 2 things at home, for me, indicate Sierra may never have left her home that morning. Someone assaulted her in the home and left the bag and phone as a diversion to shift the crime away from the home.
I believe he needed to make it seem as if Sierra was "kidnapped by someone at random" on her way to school.
LE may know this.

I am beginning to believe that the perp had to make it seem like she was taken on her way to school, because "he knew" Sierra, was allowed into the home by her, and this was something he did not want known, because it would narrow the suspect pool to include him. I am wondering if the door to the home was locked.
LE may not want the suspect knowing they believe it is someone she knew,saying her scent was picked up at the driveway.
He could have been in the house for a long time, knowing when her parents would be home. Let's face it , walking up to the home and spending the time while there to assault Sierra, would be a lot easier than risking being seen taking her from the road.
Then he packs her bag with clothes and books and takes her cell phone. Leaves the house with Sierra alive or dead at the time, plants the bag and phone to reinforce the "Kidnapping by an unknown" The inhaler and charger left behind was were he screwed up.
I only hope if this is so LE are playing along with his game, and are waiting until they get the right evidence to bring him in.:moo:

I see where you are going...but I also feel if something happened to Sierra inside the house, some clues would have been found there....footprints left by perp....maybe blood, disarray of room or house....I just do not think she left the house deceased, as also that is another scent again the dogs would have picked up, am I correct in saying this? Dogs picked up Laci Peterson's scent out of her parking lot at home to the road then to warehouse office and then at Berkeley (did I spell this right?) Marina....but the dogs picked up Sierra's scent to end of driveway so I'm quite sure she got into a car that was parked there, in driveway or just by the gate.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Snipped for the thought that keeps running through my mind 90nine (thanks):

Just one more thought...

It makes me feel like 'okay' this is it...this is what simply happens. And then here we are searching for them and putting all of our hearts into finding them..QUOTE]



BBM

The SIMPLE FACTS we DO know:

1. NO charger taken with her
2. NO inhaler taken with her
3. Scent finishing at end of drive

WITH ONLY THESE FACTS KNOWN, IMO someone made her leave very quickly from that house and made her rush hence not having these items with her.

Go back to the beginning LEOS and think like a teenager.........who would get her to walk to the END of the driveway only without these items???????

Problem is, none of us knows enough about Sierra to know how typical or atypical these things were.

My husband has mild to moderate asthma but he forgets his rescue inhaler ALL THE TIME. Even in hay fever season (when his asthma is worst) I have to constantly ask him if he has his rescue inhaler with him.

And good luck if he needed to take a cell phone charger with him. I'm betting it would happen barely half the time. Like the cell phone itself.

At least 3-4 times a year, he goes to the store and has to come all the way back home (we live way out in the country) because he forgot his wallet.

So if he disappeared and I found his rescue inhaler, cell phone and wallet at home, would it mean anything? Maybe yet, probably no.

IF (notice the big if) it was absolutely unlike Sierra to forget her rescue inhaler or charger, then there's still a plethora of possibilities.

For one, maybe this was the first time she just happened to forget them.

For another, maybe someone she thought was safe came to the door, offered her a ride and in her surprise, she forgot the inhaler and charger.

Maybe Sierra did initially run away and it has gone terribly, horribly wrong. There's a reason, after all, that we all fear what can happen to a runaway teen and it's not just that they might forget to floss before bedtime.

All I know is that LE said prior to Sheriff Smith's statement on NG that Marlene, Steve and RG are cleared. In media articles since Sheriff Smith made that statement, the family is said to have been cleared.

 

[cluciano63]

LE needs to tell us something...
We really get off on tangents here, for lack of anything new...
JMO
Not complaining...I am all for trying to figure out something new from older info...but we need new info...

 

[GrainneDhu]

I know that a school in FL did it that way, had to be kept in the nurses office and a second one for home.

That'll last until some poor asthmatic kid has to be hospitalised because they didn't have fast enough access to their inhaler.

 

[krkrjx]

LE needs to tell us something...
We really get off on tangents here, for lack of anything new...
JMO
Not complaining...I am all for trying to figure out something new from older info...but we need new info...

At least for purposes of sleuthing, we need some info. Statements from parents and from LE in the early days are all we have. No updates even though some things could probably be updated now or elaborated upon. LE may have come up with more since those early days but until they make that known (I can understand why they might not want to) or until they name a POI, we cannot do much besides speculate. The "what if" scenarios are interesting to read but unfortunately often lead to someone stating it as fact at some point because they "read it somewhere." And sometimes that somewhere is here, where it had been posted as an opinion.

Case may not be anywhere near cold for LE but, until we have more to go on, it is going cold for us.

Remember though...Elizabeth Smart came home alive, as did Jaycee Dugard. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Sierra could too.

 

[krkrjx]

That'll last until some poor asthmatic kid has to be hospitalised because they didn't have fast enough access to their inhaler.

...or dies!

 

[Cottontop]

If in fact, a stranger took Sierra right in front of her driveway, it just blows my mind. If you look at where her house is situated, it would be so bold for a person to drive up close to her house. Although, it’s rural, there are houses along the street leading to her house and 7:15am or so is a busy time with people going to work, etc. And if it was quiet, then it’s all the more bold because, it seems, like a stranger would stick out like a sore thumb and sound would travel even more. And the street that leads to her house is almost like a driveway and just like if someone was driving down my driveway, a stranger would be noticed!

Just look at these pictures. I think it’s ok to link to it because it’s someone who is talking about the case.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=LamarMap4-fromTB.jpg&mediafilter=images

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...rrent=LamarMap3-fromTB.jpg&mediafilter=images

The random stranger scenario (although I know it happens), if true, is just mind boggling to me in it’s boldness and that no one saw anything, including a car on a closed off street where her bag was found. This happened in the day time, not middle of the night. Her area is rural, but not isolated. If anything, you can see out for miles, which is one of the reasons I love Morgan Hill so much.

I just can’t believe she hasn’t been found and that no one knows what happened to her. She is so beautiful and full of life and deserves to live it to her fullest. I’m very sad for her family and friends, as well as all of us parents out there who trust that our kids will, if for nothing else, be safe on their way to school.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I am leaning this way also, that she was in the home, someone was there, or she let them in and it went down hill from there. No shoes means something for me. If she was attacked in the home, she may not have had shoes on, as she was getting ready at the time. She was in her room, getting ready, taking a photo and texting her friend, something happened in a very short time frame. I think the scent was from a previous day, not that day. A dog can't tell you how old the scent is, can they? So if she was all over the home, she could have been taken out the front door into a car just outside, or even another door of the home.

No, a dog can't tell their handler how old the scent is but the handler can teach the dog to only indicate on the freshest scent.

It's actually a beginner level exercise.

I have done tracking with a couple of my dogs and in the beginning stages, I used the same field repeatedly, day after day. My dogs had no problems at all learning to ignore my earlier tracks and follow only the freshest scent. It was easy; they figured out really fast that the only scent that would get them what they wanted was the freshest one (dogs are downright geniuses at figuring out what gets them what they want).

So, fully trained trailing dogs are shown the scent the handler wants them to follow from some personal item handled by the victim (hairbrush, clothes, whatever). Then the dog is started from the last known location of the victim. For example, if the last known location of the victim was in the kitchen, that's where they start the dog from.

The dog then snorfles around, sorts out the freshest scent from all other scents and follows that freshest scent wherever it takes them.

In a department with access to more than one trained trailing dog (and we know this is so in Sierra's case), a second dog is then brought in and the same procedures are followed.

The two handlers then compare notes and if their dogs agreed, then the handlers agree that there is a very high probability (altho' not a certainty) that wherever the trail went is wherever both dogs agreed that it went.

 

[Tuba]

In the back of my mind, I always expected that one day there would be some information about the gardeners who keep up Paquita Espana. Even if the sheriff chose not to discuss this, the neighbors would if they thought it relevant and it would circulate among the local volunteers. Since no such information ever came to light, it's possible there was no outsider maintaining the grounds at Sierra's address. Since such a person or persons would have unquestioned access and likely keep early work hours, I'm sure investigators checked into it.

 

[katydid23]

I used to work for the LAUSD, the biggest California school district. Elementary students had to keep inhalers in the office, BUT if the student's asthma was severe, the teachers had one in their desks as well.

mMddle school students were not supposed to keep them in their possession, but the teachers would ignore it as long as the kid kept it zipped away. Same with those Bee sting eppi pens. If the student kept it tucked away then nobody would complain. But if a teacher saw one, they were supposed to report it, and take it to the health office. However, if a kid was very asthmatic or highly allergic, the parent would usually tell the teacher that their kid had an epi pen and/or an inhaler in their zipper pocket.

But high school students ARE allowed to have inhalers in their backpacks but ONLY if they have written notes from their doctors and prescriptions on file with the health office.

 

[Skully]

No, a dog can't tell their handler how old the scent is but the handler can teach the dog to only indicate on the freshest scent.

It's actually a beginner level exercise.

I have done tracking with a couple of my dogs and in the beginning stages, I used the same field repeatedly, day after day. My dogs had no problems at all learning to ignore my earlier tracks and follow only the freshest scent. It was easy; they figured out really fast that the only scent that would get them what they wanted was the freshest one (dogs are downright geniuses at figuring out what gets them what they want).

So, fully trained trailing dogs are shown the scent the handler wants them to follow from some personal item handled by the victim (hairbrush, clothes, whatever). Then the dog is started from the last known location of the victim. For example, if the last known location of the victim was in the kitchen, that's where they start the dog from.

The dog then snorfles around, sorts out the freshest scent from all other scents and follows that freshest scent wherever it takes them.

In a department with access to more than one trained trailing dog (and we know this is so in Sierra's case), a second dog is then brought in and the same procedures are followed.

The two handlers then compare notes and if their dogs agreed, then the handlers agree that there is a very high probability (altho' not a certainty) that wherever the trail went is wherever both dogs agreed that it went.

If SL came home Thrusday night and then stayed home, would the dogs then just track around the inside of the home and then not go outside to the driveway? Is that how they know she was there Thrusday night, got up, spent time in the home early Friday morning and then went out? So they are sure 100% she went out that door to the end of that driveway?

 

[JTribley]

In the back of my mind, I always expected that one day there would be some information about the gardeners who keep up Paquita Espana. Even if the sheriff chose not to discuss this, the neighbors would if they thought it relevant and it would circulate among the local volunteers. Since no such information ever came to light, it's possible there was no outsider maintaining the grounds at Sierra's address. Since such a person or persons would have unquestioned access and likely keep early work hours, I'm sure investigators checked into it.

I thought this too and also mentioned in a post weeks ago...but LE have not come out with anything to indicate this was a lead.

 

[SmoothOperator]

If the dogs tracked her scent to the end of this driveway, do they know that she even made it that far? If she went there each day to get on the bus, could the scent be from a previous day? Of do they know it was her on Friday?

So far I have read here, or in the MSM;

She took a picture of herself before she left
She used an inhaler, but left it home? or it wasn't with her purse that was found, but her books and some cloths were in the purse.
Her phone was thrown out of a car
She always took the charger, but this day it was left behind.
The cloths neatly folded could have been what she had on when she left the house, but yet the shoes or stockings, if any, where not found.
It doesn't appear as she ran away. I assume nothing was missing from her room that would indicate that.
She didn't say she was spending the night with a friend so the cloths in the purse wouldn't be for that, if they are not what she was wearing.
LE didn't say if there were other items in the purse, like house keys, makeup, comb or brush, or a toothbrush, but only the cloths were mentioned.

So as I type this out, if the person was a stranger, why did they let her leave the home with this purse and phone and extra cloths (if they were extra), but prevented her from getting the charger or inhaler? If it was someone known to her, I still don't know why she was not just forced out of the home without her purse and books? I am just not getting the right picture of all of this.

Maybe she didn't leave the house with shoes. She could have let someone in, and things went bad. She may not have had shoes on, and was taken out without them and they just grabed her belongings to make someone thinks she went to school, but never thought to take the inhaler or the charger.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Above BBM...this is one of my main theories..jmo..

 

[JDB]

If the dogs tracked her scent to the end of this driveway, do they know that she even made it that far? If she went there each day to get on the bus, could the scent be from a previous day? Of do they know it was her on Friday?

So far I have read here, or in the MSM;

She took a picture of herself before she left
She used an inhaler, but left it home? or it wasn't with her purse that was found, but her books and some cloths were in the purse.
Her phone was thrown out of a car
She always took the charger, but this day it was left behind.
The cloths neatly folded could have been what she had on when she left the house, but yet the shoes or stockings, if any, where not found.
It doesn't appear as she ran away. I assume nothing was missing from her room that would indicate that.
She didn't say she was spending the night with a friend so the cloths in the purse wouldn't be for that, if they are not what she was wearing.
LE didn't say if there were other items in the purse, like house keys, makeup, comb or brush, or a toothbrush, but only the cloths were mentioned.

So as I type this out, if the person was a stranger, why did they let her leave the home with this purse and phone and extra cloths (if they were extra), but prevented her from getting the charger or inhaler? If it was someone known to her, I still don't know why she was not just forced out of the home without her purse and books? I am just not getting the right picture of all of this.

Maybe she didn't leave the house with shoes. She could have let someone in, and things went bad. She may not have had shoes on, and was taken out without them and they just grabed her belongings to make someone thinks she went to school, but never thought to take the inhaler or the charger.

But than there would be evidence inside the house. Which as far as we know there is none.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

A ah-ha moment - the front door was locked, according to LE. But we don't know if it had a dead bolt. Wouldn't keys have been found - whether Sierra locked the door or the perp did if a deadbolt was involved? Are the grey shoes really missing? She could have left the charger and inhaler because she didn't need them at school, as she was planning on coming home after school. Doubt she used her phone so much that it would need a charge during school hours.

Since LE focused on her home immediately (SOP), there's an excellent chance clues were discovered establishing if someone unknown was in the house. And they are being mum. The throwing of the cell phone and purse are like red herrings after the fact. Unless the perp planned on grabbing her immediately outside the house, she could very well have gotten into a car willingly with someone she knew. That's the million dollar question.

Isn't it interesting that nothing else of substance has been released by LE or the family? Surely, evidence has been collected and analyzed, so they have (hopefully) been moving toward a POI and are putting together the pieces. JMO.

I agree with your statements, Annie.

Regarding the BBM:
I think there was evidence of someone being in the house, just that LE prefers to leave that out leading the perp to believe they are not on to him
The evidence might be from someone who would be expected to be in the house, so they must find other things to tie them into the abduction.

IF--this is someone she knows it will be easier for them to keep info close to the chest, so as not to let on to the perp they know. So I too hope they are moving closer to a POI>:moo: