Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #13 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[houndstooth]

You make sense. Really. But the phone they found had her contacts in it, her messages to and from her mom and her friends, and probably music, twitter, and photos that indicated it was her phone. And her mom said it was her phone, it was only one person on Twitter who said it wasn't, right?

There was a discussion amongst a few of her friends.

How do I know what was on the phone they found?
Where did these friends of Sierra get the idea it wasn't
her phone?

I just wondered when Sierra got this phone.
You would assume it was to replace the stolen phone.
But, I don't really know where it came from, or when.
I just know I haven't seen any tweets from Sierra about
this "beloved phone", at all.

 

[mck16]

I've lived in over 5 states. Every single one held parents legally accountable for their child's attendance. All children in these states are aware of this. When your child skips school in these states, you are able to be prosecuted and send to jail. It is suggested (and that means if you don't you're likely to look much worse in court) that you inform the police department when your child skips school and of your effort to locate them. If your effort fails the police department then assists you (knowing you are not compliant in the truancy) in finding the child and punishment is normally negotiated between LE and the parents based on the child's past.

So yes, if my child skips school, I WILL be calling the police. Not might. Not if it gets too bad. EVERY time.

Also, be aware, a child not arriving at school doesn't mean they skipped. All the more reason to make LE aware of your attempt to locate your child.

Wow. I had no idea. But, if I was in one of those states I certainly would do the same as you. Thanks for the information.

 

[LisaB]

There was a discussion amongst a few of her friends.

How do I know what was on the phone they found?
Where did these friends of Sierra get the idea it wasn't
her phone?

I just wondered when Sierra got this phone.
You would assume it was to replace the stolen phone.
But, I don't really know where it came from, or when.
I just know I haven't seen any tweets from Sierra about
this "beloved phone", at all.

I still believe she lost an iPod Touch, not an iPhone. I think SOME of the items that show up as "sent from iPhone" did come from the iPod Touch.
I do not know for sure which Samsung Galaxy phone she had. It could be brand new or a little older. If she got it after the move to MH, her Fremont friends would not know about it. IF she had an iPhone before that may be the last phone they knew her to have.

I don't know why she got the Samsung Galaxy, although cost may have been a factor. At any given time, certain phones are a LOT cheaper than others when you take on a 2-year contract. If this phone was "free" and she actually HAD lost a prior phone, her parents may have said they were not paying full price to replace the iPhone (which is one of the few devices Verizon does not allow with an early renewal).

I also don't KNOW she had Verizon. Where I live, most people do.

 

[JDB]

All I think we all are getting frustrated right now with lack of information or new news coming out. Call it the Dog days of this for now. I know I am . I have a firm beleive in the LE in this case. I know they are working as hard as they can to do the one thing we want Find Sierra. Becuase they are not opening thier mouths to us does not bother me one bit.
I made this reamrk on another thread over the weekend when I watched this Forum come together as one. When a members duaghter went missing. And I am going to make it agin. Throw stones if you want.
I noticed through that whole ordeal we never got snappy with each other we all had one goal and that was to find her. My hope was when we venture back out to other cases we could and would keep that going and I lnow we can.
My self I am guilty the last few days an I am sorry for that.
Now lets see if we can figure out what really happened to Sierra and bring her home/:truce:

 

[Seek&Find]

To all discussing the school bus card idea, it does exist, and is used in some areas.

The buses will have Zonar GPS units to track student ridership. Students will have a card or a ZPass that will track their use of the bus.

Douglas County Schools will have to pay $221,000 in three equal installments over the next three years to fully implement the GPS tracking technology. That cost covers the system as a whole.

link

It's certainly not the schools' faults when kids go missing on their way to school, but I'm sure families and LE would benefit from knowing ASAP when something is wrong. It's terrible that abductors can get almost a full day's lead when they take a child just prior to the school day starting.

Praying Sierra is somehow safe and found soon!

 

[katydid23]

Put a bar code on each student ID. Have those that take the bus swipe their id's as they get on. Then each student that walks in the doors of the school have to swipe as they go in - sort of like a turnstile - it will turn or whatever when the id is swiped.

Swipe ID to leave also (same thing - turn stile or whatever)

Then you would have them getting on the bus, getting to school, leaving school, getting back on the bus.

Any ID's not swiped by a certain time (1st period, 2nd period, etc) would get a text, call, email that the student's card had not been swiped. Somehow this would intermingle with the parents who have called in for their student. Again, it would go into the computer via ID#. If a notation made or call made, then it would nullify the text, email, or call.

Computers are great and using a barcode/id# system would probably work. The trick would be getting everyone in the doors by a certain time. Or out. Maybe have each room have a scanner/swiper and in 1st period you have to swipe the card.

But I think in no time you would have kids paying other students to swipe their bar code for them so they could goto the beach instead. :crazy:

 

[Plumeria5]

But I think in no time you would have kids paying other students to swipe their bar code for them so they could goto the beach instead. :crazy:

Ok I guess we will have to do the thumbprint thing. :banghead:

 

[cluciano63]

A swipe wouldn't have made any difference really...the bus driver knew Sierra did not get on the bus by 7:20AM or so...it is what is done with that knowledge that would/might have helped. Maybe if bus drivers were in touch with a school staff person via walkie-talkie or something and let them know as they drove on to the next stop who didn't show up and calls were made right then, I guess...

But anyway, we can collect all the data we want, but if it is not used efficiently, it hardly matters, JMO

 

[Sjsleuth83]

But, but, but, what about her beloved Samsung Galaxy phone?
Why would she be using everybody else's when she apparently has this?

There was some discussion on Twitter, not naming names that this wasn't Sierra's phone that was found.
That her mother didn't recognize the phone.

How did such "rumors" get started?
Or better still, WHY would they get started?
Why would her friends buy into this Galaxy that was found not being hers?
They ought to know if she had one or not.

This bugs me.
I wish there was a description of what the Galaxy looks like, colorwise.

My only problem with this, is that rumors are just rumors.. Im sure LE questioned her friends and family to confirm that the phone found was her phone. And the phone was found based on its "pings".

Its quite possible SL had another phone that someone had given her, or even an iPod touch, so she could post tweets after her phone shut off.

Its also possible that she was at a friends house and her battery was dead so she posted using their phone.

If you notice, all the tweets done from SL's home are usually stating "twitter via web", and a few say "twitter via Mac", but none say "twitter via iPhone".

I also think LE would have no reason to make us believe this was SL's phone that was found if it wasn't.

IF LE lied about the description of the phone that was found, the only plausible explanation would be to keep inside information so that someone couldn't falsely confess later on, not knowing what the actual phone model was. But I HIGHLY doubt that.

 

[Sjsleuth83]

I'll look through SL's twitter later to see if I can find anything about the phones on there.

I think I saw the original tweet where her friend stated "Its not her phone" and IIRC it was my impression that her friend was saying this as a statement of denial, because she knew it was her phone, and that it meant something bad had happened. But i'll look back a ways on twitter and see if I can see if SL's twitter postings suggest any changes in phone usage.


Also, as a side question, does anyone know how Facetime works? In the picture, SL is facetimming herself. Is it possible to call yourself with Facetime, or would you have to be using two phones/devices?

 

[GrainneDhu]

There was a discussion amongst a few of her friends.

How do I know what was on the phone they found?
Where did these friends of Sierra get the idea it wasn't
her phone?

I just wondered when Sierra got this phone.
You would assume it was to replace the stolen phone.
But, I don't really know where it came from, or when.
I just know I haven't seen any tweets from Sierra about
this "beloved phone", at all.

Houndstooth, there was no stolen cell phone.

Sierra's iTouch was stolen in January, according to Sierra's tweets. An iTouch is not a cell phone, it has no cell capacity. iTouches do have wifi, so they can be used to Skype or Facetime but they cannot be used to make ordinary phone calls.

Since an iTouch has no cell capacity, it makes perfect sense for her to have a cell phone in addition to the iTouch. Since the Android is a smartphone, it would also make sense to me if Sierra's parents decided not to bother replacing the iTouch.

As to where Sierra's friends got the idea that the phone that was found was not really Sierra's cell phone? I have no idea.

I suspect it's a combination of rumours run amok conflated with teen drama.

 

[TxLady2]

Plumeria, I am sure that your idea will be adopted by some school systems.

But I hope that each school system will be allowed to decide for themselves whether such a system is important for them or not.

For instance, I live in a rural area in a rural state. I'm a local property owner and I am well aware that the life or death of a small town is dependent upon having a school and a library. In turn, that small town affects my property values, so I attend the local school board meetings when I can.

Every few years, someone gets all huffed up about installing security cameras at the local schools (the entire school district serves fewer than 1000 students). "It's for the SAFETY OF OUR CHILDREN!!!" is how it's always presented.

There is no way to reach that town without going on gravel roads. There is no problem with truancy. There hasn't been a murder in my county in over 50 years. So far as I know, there has never been a kidnapping or abduction in the 150+ years of recorded history.

So every few years, the school board listens to the pros and cons at the budget meeting and votes it down.

If the only factor to consider was safety, then I'm sure everyone would be all for it. But safety is not the only factor. Money is a huge factor and there is only so much money to go around. Most of the money is taken up in fulfilling state mandates (which are a good thing and I do not disagree with them).

The relatively small amount of money leftover is usually used for things that enrich student experience directly. Like increasing the school nurse's hours. Or purchasing a couple more computers for student use. Or bussing the freshmen and sophomores to a series of career days in the nearest big city, that show kids what sorts of jobs are out there in science, arts, math, etc.

I happen to think that those things are a lot more important than security measures that, statistically, will never be needed.

Other school districts have different sets of conditions to consider and may well decide that it's a good investment.

You are so right!! I live in a small community as well and while our school system has done its best to keep up with the times, money is still a BIG issue. I have to laugh every time I hear JVM spout, "Put a camera on every road and every street corner in America!!" Good idea, but WHO is going to pay for all those cameras and the upkeep on them? As well as monitoring them? While it's a great idea, it's not practical for many places.
My husband and I were driving through our very small town the other day and noticed two young teen girls, maybe 13-14, walking down the street. I remarked how nice it was that they could walk around in the streets, and their parents not be worried about them being kidnapped. It's true, I cannot recall any child ever being kidnapped here. If it's ever happened, it was before my time, or it was resolved pretty quickly. I guess we are very fortunate to live in the place we do.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Can we go back to these? It makes life a lot less complicated. lease:

http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/rotary_dial_mobile.jpg

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

You know what....I do agree!:rocker:

 

[meganx3xo]

Experiment: I have an iPad and iPhone. I tweeted from my iPad, using the Internet. Under my tweet, it said via mobile web. When I tweeted from my iPad Twitter app, it said via Twitter from IPad. When I tweeted from my iPhone twitter app, it said via Twitter for iPhone.

Also, I am completely addicted to my iPad, iPhone, and twitter. I was having problems with my twitter app, so my brother told me I should log back out and log back in. I googled, I looked, I pushed buttons, I deleted the app and redownloaded it, but I STILL could not figure out how to log out of the Twitter app. IMO, it would be almost impossible to share an iPhone/iPod touch with a friend, if they had their own twitter account.

I'm not sure what this proves, but in March almost ALL of her tweets were via web (normal computer) txt (text messages from her cellphone) and a few were from Twitter for Mac. I THINK I saw her use an iPhone on March 2, 11, and 13. (via Twitter for iPhone)

Just my 2 cents, opinion, etc.

 

[Eileen730]

Put a bar code on each student ID. Have those that take the bus swipe their id's as they get on. Then each student that walks in the doors of the school have to swipe as they go in - sort of like a turnstile - it will turn or whatever when the id is swiped.

Swipe ID to leave also (same thing - turn stile or whatever)

Then you would have them getting on the bus, getting to school, leaving school, getting back on the bus.

Any ID's not swiped by a certain time (1st period, 2nd period, etc) would get a text, call, email that the student's card had not been swiped. Somehow this would intermingle with the parents who have called in for their student. Again, it would go into the computer via ID#. If a notation made or call made, then it would nullify the text, email, or call.

Computers are great and using a barcode/id# system would probably work. The trick would be getting everyone in the doors by a certain time. Or out. Maybe have each room have a scanner/swiper and in 1st period you have to swipe the card.

My kids do not ride the bus every day! Sometimes they miss it or if its raining i drive them so they are not out in the rain. I expect a call from my kids when they get to school if i dont hear from them i call the school , If they are not in school the school calls me right after 1st period. Just my :twocents:

 

[Sjsleuth83]

Experiment: I have an iPad and iPhone. I tweeted from my iPad, using the Internet. Under my tweet, it said via mobile web. When I tweeted from my iPad Twitter app, it said via Twitter from IPad. When I tweeted from my iPhone twitter app, it said via Twitter for iPhone.

Also, I am completely addicted to my iPad, iPhone, and twitter. I was having problems with my twitter app, so my brother told me I should log back out and log back in. I googled, I looked, I pushed buttons, I deleted the app and redownloaded it, but I STILL could not figure out how to log out of the Twitter app. IMO, it would be almost impossible to share an iPhone/iPod touch with a friend, if they had their own twitter account.

I'm not sure what this proves, but in March almost ALL of her tweets were via web (normal computer) txt (text messages from her cellphone) and a few were from Twitter for Mac. I THINK I saw her use an iPhone on March 2, 11, and 13. (via Twitter for iPhone)

Just my 2 cents, opinion, etc.

Interesting. I might have to play around with this. But a non apple device might display "twitter via web" if you use the browser and go to twitter.com.

But if on an iPhone, you cant log out of twitter, then I really am wondering who's iPhone some of her tweets came from???

 

[Eileen730]

To all discussing the school bus card idea, it does exist, and is used in some areas.

link

It's certainly not the schools' faults when kids go missing on their way to school, but I'm sure families and LE would benefit from knowing ASAP when something is wrong. It's terrible that abductors can get almost a full day's lead when they take a child just prior to the school day starting.

Praying Sierra is somehow safe and found soon!

The school is responsible once they get on the bus!
We are responsible to get them on it!

 

[wasalurker]

My kids do not ride the bus every day! Sometimes they miss it or if its raining i drive them so they are not out in the rain. I expect a call from my kids when they get to school if i dont hear from them i call the school , If they are not in school the school calls me right after 1st period. Just my :twocents:

Right and that is why I and the others say it has to be swiped when they get to school - so if they do take the bus it would be swiped there, but if they miss the bus or don't ride the bus, then it would be swiped when they got to school. Those that do take the bus would have it on the bus and at the school.

Sorry if this has been discussed - just catching up again.

 

[curious girl]

Right and that is why I and the others say it has to be swiped when they get to school - so if they do take the bus it would be swiped there, but if they miss the bus or don't ride the bus, then it would be swiped when they got to school. Those that do take the bus would have it on the bus and at the school.

Sorry if this has been discussed - just catching up again.

That would be an easier way to take attendance.

How about a fingerprint scanner instead though?

I can imagine kids giving their cards to their friends to swipe for them.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I'm not normally one to continue to go back and forth on an issue, but this is one that I feel could actually be of importance. *I am not seeing how there can be any opinion about the iphone issue. *The iphone and the itouch do not have the same body, not even close. *In her picture from March 10 it is clearly an iphone in the picture.

Now comes the question of where did it come from? *I have heard absolutely nothing verified that it was her sister's phone (her sister would have had to give it to her as they weren't living together, and then what phone would her sister be using?)*

This one I find perplexing and concerning.

I have a thought on the iPhone discussion. *The same day the picture on twitter of SL facetiming herself with an iPhone she also went out to dinner with her friend. (Initials CF). * Im willing to bet that it was her friend's phone in the picture, and her friend who accidently posted the tweet. *Im torn on whether the tweet was her account hacked, or if someone accidently tweeted it. *And if SL had been using this phone that night (maybe her phone's battery was dead), she may have still been logged into twitter and her friend didn't realize it.*

I did notice that a lot of SL's tweets and picture uploads were "from iPhone" but I dont think this was ever when she was at home.

Thats my opinion on the phone situation. *Im pretty sure her mom or friends would know if she had an additional phone, and by now LE would have ran a trace on this other phone.

But, but, but, what about her beloved Samsung Galaxy phone?
Why would she be using everybody else's when she apparently has this?

There was some discussion on Twitter, not naming names that this wasn't Sierra's phone that was found.
That her mother didn't recognize the phone.

How did such "rumors" get started?
Or better still, WHY would they get started?
Why would her friends buy into this Galaxy that was found not being hers?
They ought to know if she had one or not.

This bugs me.
I wish there was a description of what the Galaxy looks like, colorwise.

Are they always black?

See here's the thing. She lost her i-touch in January. Borrowed her sister's. Then at some point she got this "beloved Galaxy"?

Are there any tweets or posts about how awesome it is? How much she loves this phone? How about the day she got it? Noting the first time she used it? How much she'd been wanting one?

How come there are people coming out trying to explain how this phone she's holding must be somebody else's phone? Why is she always using somebody's I-phone when she had her beloved Samsung Galaxy?

Why are kids tweeting about the phone found wasn't hers? That the mom said this? Well even if the mom did or didn't say it, they ought to have known and said "Of course she had a beloved Samsung Galaxy phone!"

I haven't seen this. Nor have I seen her in her any pics with a black phone as you have shown.

You make sense. Really. But the phone they found had her contacts in it, her messages to and from her mom and her friends, and probably music, twitter, and photos that indicated it was her phone. And her mom said it was her phone, it was only one person on Twitter who said it wasn't, right?

**The above quoted posts are revolving around the cell phone, iPod and posts/tweets made from these phones/devices.. Instead of answering each one individually under each quoted post I've chosen to address them chronologically in order but all together below**

I believe that many of the posts that came via iPhone in earlier weeks and months prior to the disappearance came from Sierras iPod touch..This as we know will show up as posted via iPhone rather than iPod.. So IMO many of those earlier tweets or posts that are labeled as via iPhone were sent from Sierra's iPod touch..Sierra's iPod touch from which IMO many of her tweets/post came from.. This iPod touch was stolen from Sierra sometime in/around January.. Sierra then used her sisters iPod touch. <@cccairuh tweet Jan. 11 Sierra states her iPod had been stolen at some date prior and she was tweeting from sisters iPod touch which had her missing her iPod that had been stolen>&#8230; this IMO is obviously why and how there are tweets from Sierra that are posted via iPhone in the months and weeks prior to her disappearance..

With regards to Sarx concerns specifically of the white cased iPhone that Sierra is clearly seen using in the photo she posted the weekend prior to her disappearance..

These tweets/posts made 3/9,10,11 that are labeled via iPhone(including the photo Sarx is referring to with Sierra clearly holding and using a white cased iPhone 4/4s) were made when Sierra was staying with her friends in Fremont for the weekend celebrating friends bday).. It is moo that this is very likely the source for which these tweets/posts were made..
Below is the info from video along with the link which includes video interview of CF, her friend from Washington HS in Fremont whose bday it was that they were celebrating and that Sierra had spent her final weekend with prior to her disappearance.
<snipped link and info>
http://www.ktvu.com/videos/news/fremont-search-expands-to-missing-teens-former/vGbDr/
-Sierra's whereabouts on the weekend prior to her abduction(3/9, 10,11) were in Fremont. *CF, *a friend and classmate from WashingtonHS is interviewed in the video and she states that it was her bday that weekend and that Sierra was with her celebrating her bday and that Sierra was upbeat and happy when they(CF and other friends from Fremont) last spent time with her less than a week before her disappearance.<snipped link and info from previous post in thread #12>

Just as sjsleuth states above in his/her post that I had quoted above you can verify for yourselves that Sierra posted this specific photo in question where she is holding the white cased iPhone 4/4s during her time spent in Fremont with friends celebrating CF's bday(3/9,10,11).. This too IMO explains why or where such photos as the pink bedroom that Sierra can be seen in is easily explained and is a home/bedroom of friends in Fremont with whom she spent the weekend of 3/9,10,11 with celebrating a friends bday..

Moving on to tweets such as ones posted within days, as in the week of her disappearance and where/how/why they are posted via iPhone..such as the one on 3/13 via iPhone that it was sent by Sierra during school hours by using a friends iPhone..

The other issue combined with those tweets/posts such as the one on 3/13 is what houndstooth posts above that I quoted in questioning why in the world would Sierra be posting*or tweeting from friends iPhone when she had an Android Galaxy smartphone that not only had Internet access but also has the android compatible twitter app available for her to have used on her droid smartphone..

Imo This issue without question is due to the fact that the iPhone just simply trumps in spades the Android Galaxy.. Before anyone gets offended I have both(btwn hubby and I) and I know it from having the opportunity for over 6mos to compare their features, ease of use, battery life, and compatibility.. And i can say hands down that the iphone(if even an older model such as 3GS) absolutely trumps in spades the Droid Galaxy.. The top concern, the number one complaint(just as many droid owners have as well) is the fact that the phone's battery life is extraordinarily BAAAD!!!.. Especially if its used to access internet features(which as we all know is what Sierra lived for minute by minute of everyday).. The battery would be drained by lunch period imo.. And for certain if Sierra was regularly popping in on her SM(and not necessarily even posting/tweeting but rather just checking in) that alone done throughout the day would be enough to drain that battery.. Again*as I'd made mention of several threads back several/many of the droid phones are absolutely known to have extraordinarily short battery life(many who had experience with some android phones posted their similar issue).. Actually its not even limited to the droid phones as I can attest from my having an android tablet as well whose battery life pales in comparison to the ipad or other well known tablets.. And again this is Especially true when the Internet is accessed from the android tablet/phone you can bet with confidence that it's battery will not last a full school day without having to be recharged at some point.. This IMO lending credence toward Sierra having absolute motive and reason for possibly posting/tweeting from friends at school's iPhones..

These details IMO answer easily the questions in the posts that I've quoted above..
-(Q) the white cased iPhone Sierra is seen holding in a photo that was posted the weekend prior to her disappearance..
-(A) With the information that Sierra spent the weekend(3/9,10,11) in Fremont with friends from Washington HS celebrating friend, CF's bday.. IMO this makes perfect logical sense as to whose phone was likely seen in the photo(a friend from Fremont).. Along with the pink bedroom in a photo posted is likely one of the friends with whom she was staying with for the weekend of 3/9,10,11..

For me personally there is no hinkiness, no unusual or unexplained details related to the question/answer of who/where/how Sierra is pictured in tweet holding a white cased iPhone 4/4s..

-(Q) Why and how are there many tweets/posts from Sierras SM that are via iPhone..
-(A) this IMO is thoroughly explained in that Sierra herself had an iPod touch up until in/around January when it was stolen.. Up until then she was posting via her own iPod which as we know posts as via iPhone.. IMO perfect logical sense as to why some posts/tweets were via iPhone..
And then we have the info that Sierra tweeted on 1/11 that she was using her sister, Danielle's iPod touch.. Again IMO easily explaining while any of her posts/tweets would show up as via iPhone.. Makes Perfect logical sense IMO.

(Q) who/why/how did Sierra post/tweet via iPhone on such occasions such as 3/13 where it shows it was via iPhone.. Tho we know she, herself had an Android Galaxy smartphone..*
(A) in knowing first hand that the android battery life is unusually short I not only find it perfectly logical that she would be posting/tweeting via a friends iPhone at school... but*I can tell you that when hubby and I are out and about that he will 100% of the time have me use my iPhone rather than his droid smartphone to look up anything, email anything, etc, etc.. As in any task that requires the accessing of the Internet.. And that is an absolutely hands down given that is 100% of the time that my iPhone is used for all Internet related tasks strictly due to the fact that he knows that a few tasks accessing Internet from his droid will leave him damn near close, if not completely drained and dead battery before we ever get home..

For me without question I completely understand Sierra using friends iPhones to post/tweet for many of the reasons above described..

Last thing.. As houndstooth mentioned in above quoted post why was there not a time where Sierra was bragging or excitedly posting and tweeting about her getting an Android Galaxy Smartphone.. When we get our anxiously awaited Twitter Tweets Spreadsheet I believe that it was in an early on tweet that Sierra does make mention of her having gotten the new droid smartphone.. I do know that there was SM posted by her where she specifically makes mention of her getting the droid smartphone and if not on that spread sheet I will personally do the digging to locate where/when this info was posted by Sierra..

For me these above given details and information more than adequately explain the issues and questions surrounding the iPhone in photo, the posts/tweets via iPhone, as well as that Sierra, herself had an iPod touch, after it was stolen continued using an iPod that belonged to Danielle, and that at the time of her disappearance IMO Sierra only had ONE phone/device and that was her Android Galaxy that was located the day after she disappeared(on 3/17 at the corner of Santa Teresa Blvd) and appeared to have been discarded by tossing out of a moving vehicle..jmo..

Hope that Helps any/some/or even one who may be questioning and/or confused about any/all of the issues covered in this post

**ETA: my reasoning for quoting LisaB was NOT for the purpose of explaining or answering her post but rather that just as sjsleuth's post that I quoted and referred to..IMO LisaB's post better helps explain some of the issue at hand especially with regards to houndstooth's questions**