Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #13 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

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  • #181
I feel confident that the leads, tips and info that the LE have will soon bring some answers. I think there are so many people out there angry and sickened that this has happened again, including this membership on WS and as a result everyone is putting in their own theories or tips to LE. I also have a strange feeling they know more, but are keeping it quiet for a reason. Somehow, somewhere this case will and has to be solved. Enough is enough!

People and communities care about every case on here...but sadly the level of caring does not seem to mean that a case will be solved...otherwise there would be an answer about Kyron, Hailey, Haleigh, Ayla, Holly, and so many more...JMO
 
  • #182
She can't have been facetiming from an iphone/pod to a mac because the screen capture is taken on a device which cannot be seen. It cannot physically take a photo of itself, and the other device can be seen in the photo.

A few weeks ago, a lot of people here were saying they felt confident this case would be solved, Sierra would be found...wondering if that is still such a strong feeling?

(I seldom have that feeling...hope the best of course, but I am more surprised, lately, when people are found...)

JMO

I don't have a clear feeling. If it is someone known to Sierra, it's more likely, but by no means a given. After any period of time offline, I log on and google news search her name and hope she's found. Now I also search for Isabel Celis. I used to do it for Hailey Dunn and Keisha Abrahams but only one of them has been found, and it took about 7 months for them to find Keisha even though they had pretty compelling physical evidence she had died in the home, they waited and followed her murderers to her body.
 
  • #183
People and communities care about every case on here...but sadly the level of caring does not seem to mean that a case will be solved...otherwise there would be an answer about Kyron, Hailey, Haleigh, Ayla, Holly, and so many more...JMO

True...I agree but I just have a feeling about this case for some reason....that there will be some answers soon.
 
  • #184
I am sure they will reslove this case. These LE are sick and tired of this carp. They have had to deal with it too much up here.

The got quiet in the Michelle Le case; they had their eyes on who did it the entire time...and they got her.
 
  • #185
I am sure they will reslove this case. These LE are sick and tired of this carp. They have had to deal with it too much up here.

The got quiet in the Michelle Le case; they had their eyes on who did it the entire time...and they got her.

But they always had a suspect in Michele's case, right from the start, plus blood, and knew she had been killed...LE has never even been clear in Sierra's case as to whether she was kidnapped for sure, just that they "believe" she was.

I am not doubting LE's commitment to finding her and the perp...but it doesn't mean they will...JMO
 
  • #186
A nearly perfect device: it's an iPhone without that pesky cell phone feature. iTouches do have wifi, which prevents the problem with people actually telephoning you.
Thanks for the explanation Grainne.. Sierra had many material things a teen would dream of.

1.Iphone
2.Itouch
3.Mac laptop

Cutting off her phone @ 9:00pm makes no sense. Was that supposed to be some form of discipline or structure?
 
  • #187
WoW watching NG now and Mark Lunsford is talking about how LE will lie to parents in attempts to get info of what happened to themissing child.. he says in his case LE told him that his daughter, Jessica's blood was found on his father's (Jessica's grandfather's) shirt!! ! And as he said of course there wasn't an ounce of truth in that ... My God what horrible mindgames that these poor parents go through on top of thefact that their child has beenstolen, raped, tortured, and murdered.. to then be told that your missing child's blood is on your own fathers clothing...canyou even imagine? I cannot.. I understand why police do such tactics but my God what trauma to inflict on top of top of the trauma they're presently living through..

I mean what if Mark Lunsford in his deep desperation, pain and anguish somehow believed that to be true and he went and killed a man who LE has directly told him that he had his daughters blood on his dads clothing.. I meantalk about RE-victimization to an extreme.. I don't knowquite how I feel about this...I get LE motive but seriously? Idk?
 
  • #188
That is horrific about Jessica's case.

I will put my neck out here, but I do not believe Santa Clara County Sheriff or Morgan Hill police would act that way. I have a lot of respect for law enforcement here... after living in Chicago and SoCal for parts of my life I realize that is not always the case.
 
  • #189
LE will do what they have to do, to shock people into honest reactions...I've seen a few cases on TV (true cases, not fictional dramas) where LE lies to the family and/or suspects and POI's in an attempt to get their reactions on tape. Doing so can be cruel, but can probably also rule someone out fairly quickly in some cases...anyway, they have to do what they can for the missing person, the only victim until they can say with confidence that the family members are not involved.
JMO
 
  • #190
WoW watching NG now and Mark Lunsford is talking about how LE will lie to parents in attempts to get info of what happened to themissing child.. he says in his case LE told him that his daughter, Jessica's blood was found on his father's (Jessica's grandfather's) shirt!! ! And as he said of course there wasn't an ounce of truth in that ... My God what horrible mindgames that these poor parents go through on top of thefact that their child has beenstolen, raped, tortured, and murdered.. to then be told that your missing child's blood is on your own fathers clothing...canyou even imagine? I cannot.. I understand why police do such tactics but my God what trauma to inflict on top of top of the trauma they're presently living through..

I mean what if Mark Lunsford in his deep desperation, pain and anguish somehow believed that to be true and he went and killed a man who LE has directly told him that he had his daughters blood on his dads clothing.. I meantalk about RE-victimization to an extreme.. I don't knowquite how I feel about this...I get LE motive but seriously? Idk?

Amber DuBois's stepfather was suspected because of a number of things, all of which turned out to be perfectly innocent actions on his part.

An indirect casualty of that crime was his marriage to Amber's mother, who believed LE.

After watching his interview, I have to wonder if that man will ever be able to trust again. After all, the person he loved most refused to believe him when he most needed it.

Like you, I get it... but I don't necessarily like it. I hope that as forensic science continues to progress that there will be far fewer mindgames. A lie detector test that was actually more accurate than flipping a coin would be a wonderful thing (single scan brain scans show promise).

And I have to wonder if officers who resort to such tactics ever feel guilty. Or if they ever apologise to the victim they re-victimised?
 
  • #191
Dangerous tactic in Lunsford case, imo. Who's to say an innocent father distraught over his missing daughter might take the law into his own hands after hearing such info from LE? Thankfully this did not happen.

Also, LE in Lunsford has more to feel guilty about...such as not thoroughly investigating the home of a neighbor (the killer, who had a live Jessica hidden in the closet).

~jmo~
 
  • #192
She can't have been facetiming from an iphone/pod to a mac because the screen capture is taken on a device which cannot be seen. It cannot physically take a photo of itself, and the other device can be seen in the photo.

We see the iphone/ ipod in the picture but the other device could potentially could be a Mac as you can take a screenshot from the Mac which would produce the results in the picture (bar the icons at the bottom of the screen which indicates to me that it was another iphone or ipod touch). Or am I going mad lol
 
  • #193
There is a growing body of independent studies on the subject of LE lying during 'interviews', and the consensus has been that the tactic is more likely to elicit a false confession from a typically unprepared, trusting innocent than it is to get anything from a usually prepared guilty person.

In computer programming, a basic principal is GIGO - garbage in, garbage out. The same principal applies when it comes to LE lying, IMO.

As an added note, studies have shown that standard LE interview training makes them react aggressively to the natural, defensive reactions of an innocent person, and that they are no better at telling if they are being deceived than the average citizen.

All JMO.
 
  • #194
LE will do what they have to do, to shock people into honest reactions...I've seen a few cases on TV (true cases, not fictional dramas) where LE lies to the family and/or suspects and POI's in an attempt to get their reactions on tape. Doing so can be cruel, but can probably also rule someone out fairly quickly in some cases...anyway, they have to do what they can for the missing person, the only victim until they can say with confidence that the family members are not involved.
JMO

Well, that's the kind way to put it. Sometimes... not always, thank goodness... LE develops tunnel vision and make up their minds right off the bat that the parents are responsible. A few of them are just downright lazy and won't investigate any other possibility. Maybe the parents didn't buckle under the pressure or didn't react the way they thought they should, so they hammered at them and lied to them to get them to crack. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it's not always just to clear the family, once in a while they find out months or years later, they were wrong. The case of Riley Fox is one good example. They beat a confession out of Kevin Fox and he had nothing to do with it. ("Beat" is a figure of speech, btw.) Sometimes, in some cases, they simply want somebody to pin it on because unsolved cases don't look good when it's time for an election. The sheriff and the DA are elected officials, and they want to look like they're doing their jobs.
They can lie all they want to while the investigation is ongoing but they CANNOT lie once they get to court. If they told the parents that they had proof, or physical evidence that tied them to the crime, and they get a confession out of them, they better be able to produce that evidence, because if that was the basis for getting an arrest warrant and an indictment and it later comes out in trial that there was no such evidence at the time of that confession... their case is down the drain. A good defense lawyer can get that confession thrown out and convince a jury that it was coerced by LE, or that the evidence did not exist at all and therefore not admissible.
So, that lying to the family can work both ways, it can sometimes come back and bite them in the butt.
 
  • #195
Thanks for the explanation Grainne.. Sierra had many material things a teen would dream of.

1.Iphone
2.Itouch
3.Mac laptop

Cutting off her phone @ 9:00pm makes no sense. Was that supposed to be some form of discipline or structure?


4. Juicy Couture Bag
5. Sharks Jersey

And yes, I suspect it was to give her time to do homework or chores and/or a time after which her mom felt was too late to be getting calls. I had time limits on my DD's phone too. I think in High School it was 9pm until her senior year. I recall as a high school student myself getting lectured if a guy called after 9.
 
  • #196
Well, that's the kind way to put it. Sometimes... not always, thank goodness... LE develops tunnel vision and make up their minds right off the bat that the parents are responsible. A few of them are just downright lazy and won't investigate any other possibility. Maybe the parents didn't buckle under the pressure or didn't react the way they thought they should, so they hammered at them and lied to them to get them to crack. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it's not always just to clear the family, once in a while they find out months or years later, they were wrong. The case of Riley Fox is one good example. They beat a confession out of Kevin Fox and he had nothing to do with it. ("Beat" is a figure of speech, btw.) Sometimes, in some cases, they simply want somebody to pin it on because unsolved cases don't look good when it's time for an election. The sheriff and the DA are elected officials, and they want to look like they're doing their jobs.
They can lie all they want to while the investigation is ongoing but they CANNOT lie once they get to court. If they told the parents that they had proof, or physical evidence that tied them to the crime, and they get a confession out of them, they better be able to produce that evidence, because if that was the basis for getting an arrest warrant and an indictment and it later comes out in trial that there was no such evidence at the time of that confession... their case is down the drain. A good defense lawyer can get that confession thrown out and convince a jury that it was coerced by LE, or that the evidence did not exist at all and therefore not admissible.
So, that lying to the family can work both ways, it can sometimes come back and bite them in the butt.

But, isn't their whole point of getting a confession to avoid trial.
That's the dirty secret.
Plea bargains are the name of the game.
They aren't interested in Perry Mason cases where they have to prove a case.
Everybody remembers OJ.

In which case where you stated above about even if they lied to get a confession, they better be able to back it in court, is not going to happen.
They want that confession to avoid the courts altogether and NEVER show their hand.
 
  • #197
I guess the case has hit the doldrums until the AMW show hits the airwaves.

I hope we get to hear from Rick...finally.
 
  • #198
Well, that's the kind way to put it. Sometimes... not always, thank goodness... LE develops tunnel vision and make up their minds right off the bat that the parents are responsible. A few of them are just downright lazy and won't investigate any other possibility. Maybe the parents didn't buckle under the pressure or didn't react the way they thought they should, so they hammered at them and lied to them to get them to crack. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But it's not always just to clear the family, once in a while they find out months or years later, they were wrong. The case of Riley Fox is one good example. They beat a confession out of Kevin Fox and he had nothing to do with it. ("Beat" is a figure of speech, btw.) Sometimes, in some cases, they simply want somebody to pin it on because unsolved cases don't look good when it's time for an election. The sheriff and the DA are elected officials, and they want to look like they're doing their jobs.
They can lie all they want to while the investigation is ongoing but they CANNOT lie once they get to court. If they told the parents that they had proof, or physical evidence that tied them to the crime, and they get a confession out of them, they better be able to produce that evidence, because if that was the basis for getting an arrest warrant and an indictment and it later comes out in trial that there was no such evidence at the time of that confession... their case is down the drain. A good defense lawyer can get that confession thrown out and convince a jury that it was coerced by LE, or that the evidence did not exist at all and therefore not admissible.
So, that lying to the family can work both ways, it can sometimes come back and bite them in the butt.

BBM

Not only did they coerce a false confession from Kevin Fox, they IGNORED the fact that the perpetrator left his shoes, complete with his last name written on them, at the scene of the crime. Those shoes were not a common make, they are bought in bulk and issued to inmates of the Illinois Department of Corrections.

Ignoring those shoes and focusing on Kevin Fox allowed the perpetrator to go free long enough to rape another little girl.

The Innocence Project were the real heroes in that case.
 
  • #199
'America's Most Wanted' to feature search for Sierra LaMar

Sierra went missing on her way to school on March 16th. Investigators say they believe she was kidnapped.
That theory brought the national TV crime show America's Most Wanted to the LaMar home, and the volunteer center.
A show featuring her case is set to air May 11th.
Sierra's mother Marlene LaMar said she appreciated the effort.
"It's important for everybody, locally and on a national level, to be aware that we are continuing the search," said LaMar. "That we are hopeful and we are not giving up."

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/sierra/nMh58/
 
  • #200
We see the iphone/ ipod in the picture but the other device could potentially could be a Mac as you can take a screenshot from the Mac which would produce the results in the picture (bar the icons at the bottom of the screen which indicates to me that it was another iphone or ipod touch). Or am I going mad lol

JMO here....
I think she IS using an Iphone and a Mac combo.. it seems to me that the picture we are looking at (https://twitter.com/#!/cccairuh/status/178643362805579776/photo/1) is the screen shot from the iphone, and heres why i think that... (besides the fact that twitter says the picture was uploaded via twitter for iphone....
The device she is using to take the screen shout would be the Iphone, being that her picture in the top right corner is from the front facing camera on the Iphone (you can tell the placement of the picture and how she is looking at the phone camera)
To take a screen shot you have to push the top right power button and the bottom round button at the same time.. it looks to me like her left arm in the picture is reaching over to push the bottom round button, while using her right hand thumb to push the top power button. the angle of the big picture leads me to believe shes got the mac sitting on her bed right in front of her, somewhat pointed up at her, with her Iphone in hand...
that's just my :twocents:
does it make any sense???
 
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