Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #18 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[SweetT]

It's been my belief that AGT took Sierra to that shed, and forced her to comply to his wishes once inside. He then made it like he was keeping her clothes there in her Juicy bag and showed her that the bag was being left outside protected by cacti so it would be there when he brings her back to let her go....
This was a all ruse to get her to so she would go with him (naked except for sneakers she had on) not knowing he had no plans to ever bring her back...

If that were the case, I would think there would be DNA evidence linking them to that shed and we have not heard this. I mean I agree this scenerio is possible, but have not heard that they ever connected them to that shed. Which is why I feel he took her somewhere else and then dumped the clothing there later. I don't think he drove around with a naked body in his car. So Either he planted it to throw off LE, or he meant to come back and get it later for whatever reason.

 

[LBrennanVW]

Two related articles:

Sierra LaMar death questioned by Marc Klaas: Why he's wrong
http://[link removed]/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981362922

Search-and-rescue volunteers donate their time to seek the missing
http://www.mercurynews.com/los-gatos/ci_20729350/search-and-rescue-volunteers-donate-their-time-search

 

[stillwatersc]

If that were the case, I would think there would be DNA evidence linking them to that shed and we have not heard this. I mean I agree this scenerio is possible, but have not heard that they ever connected them to that shed. Which is why I feel he took her somewhere else and then dumped the clothing there later. I don't think he drove around with a naked body in his car. So Either he planted it to throw off LE, or he meant to come back and get it later for whatever reason.

We don't hear everything that LE knows and what is reported is often not accurate. How many theories revolved around SL being abducted in her driveway when it turned out that she was mid-way down the street?

 

[LLLindsayy]

Just some thoughts currently crossing my mind.

:twocents:

I saw that it was reported that AGT told his family he had been out fishing the morning Sierra disappeared. I also know that LE has searched Uvas multiple times. Was the connection made hereon WS that LE is searching Uvas because he TOLD his mom that's where he was fishing, or was it reported that this is why? Any link?

I don't think I saw this particular connection reported, so going on that basis, I continue my thought below.

If LE had 24/7 surveillance on AGT since the of March, and as has been speculated, in hopes that he'd lead LE to Sierra, maybe he did. Kind of. Maybe LE noticed AGT going back to Uvas often to fish or whatever he did. Perhaps if she is in the water she isn't in the exact same location in which AGT put her anymore (thus LE unable to located her), but maybe he went back often because that's where he put her. Maybe LE has made this connection themselves and THAT'S why they have gone back a few times?

Again, just thinking (probably confusingly) out loud.

 

[krkrjx]

I cannot see him taking her, driving a little ways away, having her get out, undress, or he undressed her, and now even her naked in the car unless she is in the trunk. What would happen if a truck passed by and seen a girl naked in the car? What if he stopped with her where the bag was found and made her undress, wouldn't he be risking another car going by at that location?

Or he drove her to another location with her clothes on, had her undress, and she placed them in her bag, he kills her, (wherever that was) and thought about keeping the items as a trophy but changed his mind on his way home? Did he leave them in that spot because he wanted her family to find them, more torture or his "I'm sorry" episode.

The phone I think he flipped out the window very quickly. I don't know anymore...too much now and not enough to go on. All I know is, he is an A-Typical macho machismo, arrogant, !

I have to go along with this for the most part. Except for the placement of her bag...I think he put it there as an afterthought. After the crime, when he was on his way home he noticed he still had her bag in the car. It makes sense to me that he was "otherwise" occupied at the actual crime scene and gave Sierra's belongings in his car no thought at that time.

I believe he drove to wherever he committed the assault, had Sierra undress and maybe even let her wear her shoes so he could have her walk from the car into the woods or into some structure. She would probably be more compliant walking with shoes on.

I think the bag was put where it was because he was near that intersection (on his way home) when he realized he still had the bag. For him to have neatly folded her clothes is sort of a stretch, IMO. For her to have folded the clothes is more believable for me (stalling, perhaps). For him to have left her bag anywhere hoping to make it look like she was a runaway doesn't really compute for me...I mean, wouldn't a runaway be expected to take their bag with them? And for him to have assaulted Sierra at that shed is really iffy, IMO. It's sort of remote but not so much that there was any guarantee a car would not pass close enough, or that someone would not see something from afar from their home, etc. I think he would have chosen an area with more cover than that.

All JMO... and of course anything is possible, even the possibility that Sierra's scent could have been at that shed and LE decided for purposes of their investigation not to reveal that info.

 

[Lera213]

The only other explanation I have for the bag with clothes is what if he took them home, washed and folded them, the next day he put them on Fisher road.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The problem with the shed being the scene of an assault is that tracking dogs found no trace of Sierra away from her bag.

The area is a good one for holding scent, lots of vegetation of varying heights, the weather was good for preserving scent (cool and damp), it's just really hard for me to believe that dogs would miss a big scent pool like a sexual assault scene.

I suppose it's possible that he had her in the trunk, opened it up and murdered her at the sheds but that just doesn't feel right to me.

I think if he tased her, the taser itself would work quite well as a threat to keep her quiet. He'd have more control over her if she were in the passenger footwell with a blanket thrown over her.

This is also consistent when him grabbing her cell phone away from her and tossing it out the window, to keep her from using it.

If he is a power assertive rapist, he didn't set out with the intention of killing her. Once he killed her, I think he would have flipped into appeasement type behaviour fairly quickly (as he has been observed to do on other occasions).

If I am correct, then the reason he didn't throw the bag away was because that would feel too disrespectful to the "good son" of the family.

I think he put her body in a grave and concealed it, then drove home and didn't discover her bag until he was close to home. He knew he couldn't show up at home with the bag but he couldn't just put it in the trash. So he thought of a place that was secluded, no regular foot traffic and where the bag would be somewhat protected.

 

[Lera213]

I just don't know anymore. <modsnip>when there is a break in this case then what we have now. LOL

 

[krkrjx]

The only other explanation I have for the bag with clothes is what if he took them home, washed and folded them, the next day he put them on Fisher road.

Yes, I had thought of that too, before I knew who the suspect was. Toward the beginning I was thinking the perp could have been a neighbor from one of the homes near Sierra's home and that he had taken her there, and then washed her clothes in hope of removing evidence prior to stashing the bag. With this perp, though, I am not so sure he would have done that. I suppose it depends on if he normally had any "alone" time during the day at his residence.

 

[houndstooth]

We don't hear everything that LE knows and what is reported is often not accurate. How many theories revolved around SL being abducted in her driveway when it turned out that she was mid-way down the street?

What do you mean "it turned out that she was mid-way down the street'?
All they did was state that, the same way they stated before her scent ended at the driveway!

Is one statement more credible than another with nothing to back it up?

Why did they say that in one instance and that it ended near the front door in another if neither was true?

It's not as if the dog can take the stand, is it?

 

[Tuba]

The way I think about the metal shed is that it was the chosen spot for "adjustments" but not much more. I admit to being put off by the filthy, disorganised mess there and I assume anyone would be. However, that cannot be correct or there wouldn't be such an accumulation of mattresses and household items. Evidently, some found the place usable; maybe A.G.-T. did too.

The railroads have grant deeded an amazing number of rail lines and rail corridors for conversion into hiking trails. Even though they are sheltered by trees, they are easily passable. A.G.-T. may have used such a trail. They are mapped.

 

[OldSteve]

The problem with the shed being the scene of an assault is that tracking dogs found no trace of Sierra away from her bag.

The area is a good one for holding scent, lots of vegetation of varying heights, the weather was good for preserving scent (cool and damp), it's just really hard for me to believe that dogs would miss a big scent pool like a sexual assault scene.

I suppose it's possible that he had her in the trunk, opened it up and murdered her at the sheds but that just doesn't feel right to me.

I think if he tased her, the taser itself would work quite well as a threat to keep her quiet. He'd have more control over her if she were in the passenger footwell with a blanket thrown over her.

This is also consistent when him grabbing her cell phone away from her and tossing it out the window, to keep her from using it.

If he is a power assertive rapist, he didn't set out with the intention of killing her. Once he killed her, I think he would have flipped into appeasement type behaviour fairly quickly (as he has been observed to do on other occasions).

If I am correct, then the reason he didn't throw the bag away was because that would feel too disrespectful to the "good son" of the family.

I think he put her body in a grave and concealed it, then drove home and didn't discover her bag until he was close to home. He knew he couldn't show up at home with the bag but he couldn't just put it in the trash. So he thought of a place that was secluded, no regular foot traffic and where the bag would be somewhat protected.

Always enjoy your analysis! I wonder if LE is holding back info about the shed and what dogs may have found? They did hold back about the Jetta, etc...

The shed seems a likely place where he assaulted, and maybe even killed poor Sierra... he was probably looking to act upon his evil desires as soon as he had her...

 

[GrainneDhu]

What do you mean "it turned out that she was mid-way down the street'?
All they did was state that, the same way they stated before her scent ended at the driveway!

Is one statement more credible than another with nothing to back it up?

Why did they say that in one instance and that it ended near the front door in another if neither was true?

It's not as if the dog can take the stand, is it?

Dogs can't take the stand but their handlers can.

A good handler keeps meticulous training logs that can be analysed to show how accurate the handler's interpretation of the dog's behaviour is under various conditions.

In the course of that training, handlers use a wide variety of helpers and carry out a wide variety of exercises, including a good many "blind" ones (where the helper knows where the track or item is but the handler does not at the beginning of the exercise).

So a given dog/handler pair can show an accuracy rate over time, the same way that accuracy rates can be shown for many other technical tools.

I'm not going to go back and look but I think LE stated that Sierra was tracked "to the end of the driveway." I, for one, made the leap that the track ended there even though that's not really what was stated at the time.

 

[cluciano63]

Always enjoy your analysis! I wonder if LE is holding back info about the shed and what dogs may have found? They did hold back about the Jetta, etc...

The shed seems a likely place where he assaulted, and maybe even killed poor Sierra... he was probably looking to act upon his evil desires as soon as he had her...

I think she would have been left there.

 

[houndstooth]

Dogs can't take the stand but their handlers can.

A good handler keeps meticulous training logs that can be analysed to show how accurate the handler's interpretation of the dog's behaviour is under various conditions.

In the course of that training, handlers use a wide variety of helpers and carry out a wide variety of exercises, including a good many "blind" ones (where the helper knows where the track or item is but the handler does not at the beginning of the exercise).

So a given dog/handler pair can show an accuracy rate over time, the same way that accuracy rates can be shown for many other technical tools.

I'm not going to go back and look but I think LE stated that Sierra was tracked "to the end of the driveway." I, for one, made the leap that the track ended there even though that's not really what was stated at the time.

Of course dogs don't take the stand!
Was it the handler who said the scent ended at her driveway?
Was it the handler who stated that the scent ended near the front door area?
Was it the dog handler who now says it stopped in the middle of the cul-de-sac?
I haven't heard from the dog handler.
I've heard from the Sheriff and the LE spokesperson.

It's not the dog's accuracy that concerns me. It's the people who speak for the dog.
If her scent ended in the middle of Paquita Espana then LE should have said, it ended in the middle of Paquita Espana or no comment.
It's just that simple.
I know the front door area is no where near to being confused with the middle of the cul-de-sac.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

What do you mean "it turned out that she was mid-way down the street'?
All they did was state that, the same way they stated before her scent ended at the driveway!

Is one statement more credible than another with nothing to back it up?

Why did they say that in one instance and that it ended near the front door in another if neither was true?

It's not as if the dog can take the stand, is it?

BBM: :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Oh ... I think it is "worth a shot" to put the dog on the stand ... the pooch would probably be a good witness ... lol ! :woohoo:

Seriously though ... I remember when this story first came out LE said :

- The scent "stopped at the end of the driveway" ...

- THEN -- the scent stopped at the "front door of the house" ...

- NOW -- that they have a "suspect" in custody -- the scent stopped "mid-way down the street" [per the "Statement of Facts"] ...


:waitasec:

:moo:

 

[houndstooth]

BBM: :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Oh ... I think it is "worth a shot" to put the dog on the stand ... the pooch would probably be a good witness ... lol ! :woohoo:

Seriously though ... I remember when this story first came out LE said :

- The scent "stopped at the end of the driveway" ...

- THEN -- the scent stopped at the "front door of the house" ...

- NOW -- that they have a "suspect" in custody -- the scent stopped "mid-way down the street" [per the "Statement of Facts"] ...


:waitasec:

:moo:

It almost seems as if they don't plan to bring this evidence to court.
At least not any that has been spoken of so far.
It appears they are hanging their hat on pressuring the person they've arrested to confessing.

Please let there be a trial. Oh please, oh please let there be a trial based solely on the evidence they are stating.
Because they have to make a case for Sierra, as the Sheriff says, throwing her bag away (PC).
That would put her in the front seat, right?
What was she wearing if her clothes were in the bag?

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Of course dogs don't take the stand!
Was it the handler who said the scent ended at her driveway?
Was it the handler who stated that the scent ended near the front door area?
Was it the dog handler who now says it stopped in the middle of the cul-de-sac?
I haven't heard from the dog handler.
I've heard from the Sheriff and the LE spokesperson.

It's not the dog's accuracy that concerns me. It's the people who speak for the dog.
If her scent ended in the middle of Paquita Espana then LE should have said, it ended in the middle of Paquita Espana or no comment.
It's just that simple.
I know the front door area is no where near to being confused with the middle of the cul-de-sac.

BBM: Whoa -- good point : the dog handler has NEVER spoken about where the dog tracked the scent to ...

JMO here ... but the LE spokesman and Sheriff have made so many conflicting statements in this case it's "mind boggling" !

I will wait to hear from the dog :crazy: :floorlaugh: ... the dog has no reason to lie and has no agenda ... oops ... I mean the dog's handler ... :crazy:
:moo:

 

[stillwatersc]

What do you mean "it turned out that she was mid-way down the street'?
All they did was state that, the same way they stated before her scent ended at the driveway!

Is one statement more credible than another with nothing to back it up?

Why did they say that in one instance and that it ended near the front door in another if neither was true?

It's not as if the dog can take the stand, is it?

My point was just that we can't take these little tid-bits of information as conclusive fact. Or if some evidence is not revealed to the public, assume it does not exist. I feel they may have found video to reach the more recent theory of where Sierra was abducted. Are they now claiming the dogs trailed her mid-street?

 

[sayd]

Hmmm...I hadn't realized that the dogs didn't pick up Sierra's scent anywhere except at the bag. Now I'm leaning towards that he ditched her bag after he assaulted her.

Wherever the assault site was, she was just left with her shoes. He could have driven her to a very remote location and then made her walk way further to a more remote location, one not accessible by motor vehicle. She could be a long, long ways from where ever he drove her to that morning. I hadn't thought of that before.