CA CA - Skip, 55, & Joni Tillman, 51, La Canada, 7 Feb 2000

New Posts

  • #161
  • #162
fred&edna said:
Yes, good point... a county dump would certainly be a "less suspicious" location.

I didn't realize the McStays were buried near a county dump.... hmmmm... interesting. Do you think you (or anyone) might be able to find any kind of link between these families?? It might be worth a look-see :)
Click to expand...

I was just wondering....but if the killer had previously decided that the Tillman's were going to be murdered, and that the they were going to be buried. Would it not be better to have dug the graves prior? I would think that it would be much easier to explain digging a hole out in the middle of a dump, with no bodies in the truck, then it would be to explain having two bodies and dog. IYSWIM.

Am I reading this wrong? Shouldn't that confirm, or at least support, that the murder was premeditated? Would a first time killer have thought of something like that? Was there anyone in their lives who would have?
 
  • #163
Dewclaw said:
I was just wondering....but if the killer had previously decided that the Tillman's were going to be murdered, and that the they were going to be buried. Would it not be better to have dug the graves prior? I would think that it would be much easier to explain digging a hole out in the middle of a dump, with no bodies in the truck, then it would be to explain having two bodies and dog. IYSWIM.

Am I reading this wrong? Shouldn't that confirm, or at least support, that the murder was premeditated? Would a first time killer have thought of something like that? Was there anyone in their lives who would have?
Click to expand...

I was just agreeing about "location".

Yes, IMO it definitely supports premeditation in this case, and yes I believe the graves were dug prior.

And, I think it's possible that the perp/s visited the county dump on more than one occasion to dig the graves. (I have no facts to support this idea, tho)

Getting caught digging a grave at a landfill, yes... that would be suspicious, AND even more suspicious would be, as you said, getting caught digging graves with two bodies. But, visiting a county dump isn't a suspicious activity in and of itself, so that's the reason I did agree it's a less suspicious "location". (In comparison: A remote road/wooded area would be more suspicious because there would be no reason for the perp/s to be there unless they lived in the area... thus more likely to be noticed and look "out of place"). With a county dump there is at least somewhat of a reason for him/them to be there.

Did I explain what I was thinking or is this more confusing?? Sometimes what I'm thinking and what I post are worlds apart... ugh :(
 
  • #164
Dewclaw said:
I was just wondering....but if the killer had previously decided that the Tillman's were going to be murdered, and that the they were going to be buried. Would it not be better to have dug the graves prior? I would think that it would be much easier to explain digging a hole out in the middle of a dump, with no bodies in the truck, then it would be to explain having two bodies and dog. IYSWIM.

Am I reading this wrong? Shouldn't that confirm, or at least support, that the murder was premeditated? Would a first time killer have thought of something like that? Was there anyone in their lives who would have?
Click to expand...

Article said it was an old dump. Dump was moved somewhere else, and that land was eventually made into a park.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MAN,+WIFE+WERE+STRANGLED,+CORONER'S+OFFICE+CONCLUDES.-a083405426

The body of the couple's Maltese dog, Teddy, was discovered by a man walking his dog near the old Yucaipa dump at Oak Glen Road and 5th Street outside the city.
 
  • #165
The only unfortunate thing now is that when i send emails asking the detectives questions like this they don't respond. I had just always gone with the belief it was Hayes. Of course never thought until this site of so many other possibilities.
 
  • #166
If only detectives attended to detail and responded to questions like you all do. Thanks for being so amazing.
 
  • #167
Oddly enough, their group of friends were very meticulous, detail oriented, and some perfectionists, if anyone would have thought to dig the hole first it would be everyone they knew. I continued to feel like where they were buried was a "statement", for him/them stealing money, like leaving them like trash at the dump. Also now thinking there is someone who had to have seen something if they made more than 1 trip out there. Or at the house the night this happened, thinking how did the killers get to the house? It seems they took them out of the house in their Durango, or if not didn't neighbors notice strange vehicles there? If it was a green bronco, what color vehicles do park rangers drive in that area? Sorry so off track now. Without detectives to answer any of these questions or without seeing any reports I am not much help.
 
  • #168
I have to apologize, I have been back and forth through this so many times and am just now seeing some of your posts. Not sure why, but it isn't notifying me when people post. So again forgive me it was not my intention to ignore any of you.
 
  • #169
fred&edna said:
I think you're correct... belief that M/M Tillman vanished (of their own doing) would have had an effect on the lawsuits and their estate.

It would be helpful to know more about the Tillman's estate. Heck, I'm still confused as to why there was a switch of executor. While I know the Tillman's will has been discussed, I can't remember if tamijt4 has a copy.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly the first named executor was a lawyer friend to my dad, he declined. Jackie W. was handling it by the time I was notified about the case. I have a vague recollection of 1 conversation with her and she was so rude and condescending to me that I of course signed to have Karol Eller handle the estate. I have to look through old records and see if i still have it. I moved many times since then and the correspondence back and forth was overwhelming and I may have thrown it all away.
 
  • #170
Dewclaw said:
If the intent was that the bodies were never found, would that show some significance towards how their estate would have been handled? Wouldn't it be different if authorities thought that the couple had left of their own free will instead of being murdered?
Click to expand...

The life insurance would not have paid out if they were thought to be alive.
 
  • #171
fred&edna said:
Yes, good point... a county dump would certainly be a "less suspicious" location.

I didn't realize the McStays were buried near a county dump.... hmmmm... interesting. Do you think you (or anyone) might be able to find any kind of link between these families?? It might be worth a look-see :)
Click to expand...

I had sent the detectives a link to that case at the time I saw it on some crime TV show. No one ever replied or acknowledged I had said a thing
 
  • #172
StarrChance said:
Decided to go back to the first thread and look/ ask questions again:

A caller remembered something that might help detectives in the case. He remembers seeing two men in the wash a few days before the Tillman's bodies were found.

One of the men is a person of interest. He is described as a white male in his late 20s to early 30s. He had long brown or black hair and was wearing a baseball cap.

There was no description of the second man. They were travelling in a green Ford Bronco.

"That is the only lead that the investigators have. They believe that this person may of seen something. They may have some information. They are not saying necessarily that these men in the Bronco were involved in their murder,"

Q. Did any suspects own a green Ford Bronco at that time?

Post #21 say fingerprints were collected from the Tillmans car but did not find any match

Q. Are fingerprints continually run through the system or something that can be looked at again? It's hard to believe a possible killer would not have been caught for a crime before.

tamjit on post #24 you said the the impression was a "paid hit"

Q. Could we look at all known players and speculate who would be most likely to be involved with that kind of criminal?
Click to expand...

This is the first I recall hearing about fingerprints. My immediate first thought for people involved with this type of criminal would be the person momentarily in charge of their estate, Jackie W. she was/is a probation or parole officer. Probably way of the mark but where my deductive reasoning went. Hayes the clothing designer is who they had always said was a key suspect. Prior to you all looking at this I just thought that Hayes must have paid someone to do this, possibly someone from out of the country or out of the area at least, I had no idea of any other possibilities. I also, until now, was unaware of the answers floating around the internet to questions that I asked them and they have not answered or acted like that was priviledged information in the investigation. The finding of the bank robbing dentist gave a whole new light to possibilities I was unaware of.
 
  • #173
fred&edna said:
I hope this "new" detective is continuing to communicate with tamijt4. (I actually missed that post for several days!)

One thing that puzzles me... why the friend/attorney was not the executor of the Tillman estate? Why was it Jackie?? How did they know Jackie?? And, if I have the correct person... Jackie's spouse is/was a LE detective in a CA county not too far away... I suppose he couldn't assist with this case, tho??

I don't know whether to keep digging, wait for additional info from tamijt4, or ??

I guess for now I'm in a holding pattern.
Click to expand...

I was told the attorney originally asked "couldn't deal with the loss, or stress". I am trying to remember if I talked to him once. I did meet him as a child, but know nothing of their last 35 years together. Joni went to school with Jackie. She was married to a man in law enforcement. they divorced, she was later married (or with) a female partner and is now said to live alone. The new detective, when I sent another email recently, has decided to respond with an exact copy of the email he sent 2 months ago. He didn't bother to edit it or add to it just sent the exact same response verbatim. Back to square one.
 
  • #174
Dewclaw said:
Hello all
I am just now reading about this case. There have been some excellent posts above with great info. I am hoping to ask a few questions about potential leads.

1. I read that Mr Tillman was from Tacoma and Seattle. Is there any more info on where he lived, went to school, and who his friends might have been?

2. How did Mr Tillman find his clients?

3. I have also read that Glen Rothstein represented David Hayes in the lawsuit against Mr Tillman. Does anyone have an accurate resume for Rothstein? Or his fellow UCLA alumni and coworker at Greenberg Glusker, Ricardo Cestero, who also worked for Pellicano? Or another partner, Bert Fields? Or the private detective commonly associated with Fields, Anthony Pellicano?

Something to think about?

Could Hayes have understood that even if he won the lawsuit he wasn't going to receive his money back? Could he have opted instead to seek revenge?

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/04/13/pellicano-update-a-sigh-of-relief-at-greenberg-glusker/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allison-hope-weiner/pellicano-trial-greenberg_b_98101.html
Click to expand...

Thank you. I am still amazed at how amazing you all are. I had thought that them being dumped in a "garbage dump" was some sort of "statement" with regard to having supposedly stolen someone's money. If they were thought to have left the country the life insurance would not have paid out. So your line of thought matches mine to that extent. If only I could get detectives to read this page or answer anyone's questions, so far I have failed there.
 
  • #175
tamijt4 said:
This is all very new to me. I am very grateful for the opportunity. I was very upset to think we were making progress on the case and then in the blink of a promotion we were on the cold case floor. My heart goes out to everyone who has cases posted here. Thank you for all you do.
Click to expand...

Please forgive me for missing so many posts. Trying to catch up now and still learning how to use the site. I have bee responding to posts thinking that my answers are following the post. Now realizing that i don't think they are so I have started "replying with a quote" hoping that helps. Thought we had a new cold case detective who would get things going again. Sadly after waiting 2 months for a reply, I sent another email, the response was a duplicate to the message I was sent 2 months ago. Didn't bother to add to it or change it at all
 
  • #176
  • #177
  • #178
tamijt4 said:
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/latimes/obituary.aspx?n=alice-lucille-augspurger-sue&pid=17796510

I found this, it relates to Joni's step mom passing and mentions her brother whom I just assumed had no kids as well.
Click to expand...

Realizing I am really not good at this. The details seem to match and Skip and Joni are buried at Forest Lawn too, but this woman passed in 2006 and that doesn't match. Will stick to replying to posts at this point. Can't find an obituary for anyone even checking at Forest Lawn.
 
  • #179
StarrChance said:
Ok me again, last question- do any sleuths know if tamjit4 can find out COD report and how they suspected this?
Click to expand...

I am looking into getting a copy of the the death certificate/s. will take a bit, but i am trying, as detectives don't feel any of my questions deserve a a direct answer.
 
  • #180
fred&edna said:
Does anyone know if it's possible to:

Obtain info on ALL of the lawsuits filed against the Tillman's?

Obtain a copy of the Tillman's will?

If any of this is possible, would it have to be obtained by a family member or could any ol' Fred or Edna request it??
Click to expand...

I will ask the executor of the estates' wife. I do not know if they have any of the records or if the police do. I am told they used to have an "evidence room" just for this case. surely it has been downsized to a box or two now. I tried a little checking into public court records, but am constantly distracted. When the estate was paid out their things at the house were sold, their bills were all paid and David Hayes assistant (atleast) was paid. Then they dealt with family and friends. Of course David Hayes was not paid but I do no think his case had gone to court yet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

... and 130 more.
Total: 2,580 (members: 131, guests: 2,449)

Online statistics

Members online
131
Guests online
2,449
Total visitors
2,580
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
632,179
Messages
18,623,226
Members
243,046
Latest member
Tech Hound
Back
Top