CA - Stephon Clark, 22, unarmed, fatally shot by Sacramento police, 18 March 2018

[Woodland]

And the police say that they can't factually prove that, at this time the believe it. And for a black man to run from police. In the US I don't find that unusual at all sadly.

I recently turned down an invitation to go to Phoenix in mid-April. Thanks but - nfw.

 

[otto]

And the police say that they can't factually prove that, at this time the believe it. And for a black man to run from police. In the US I don't find that unusual at all sadly.

Forget about skin color. Anyone who is told by police to stop and raise their hands better listen. Running and refusing to listen, regardless of skin color, will only make things worse, especially when handling what can be mistaken as a gun.

 

[jjenny]

Furthermore, why can they safely apprehend a man who has killed 17 children, but have to shoot someone who may have broken into cars 20 times?!

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By they time they apprehended a man who killed 17 people he didn't have a gun. He left the gun at school. He also didn't run from them.

 

[DatelineFan]

By they time they apprehended a man who killed 17 people he didn't have a gun. He left the gun at school. He also didn't run from them.

Fair point. This man didn't have a gun either, and hadn't hurt anyone.

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[Woodland]

Fair point. This man didn't have a gun either, and hadn't hurt anyone.

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Good one.

 

[DatelineFan]

Forget about skin color. Anyone who is told by police to stop and raise their hands better listen. Running and refusing to listen, regardless of skin color, will only make things worse, especially when handling what can be mistaken as a gun.

If you're a police officer, you should know the difference between a gun and an iPhone. And if you don't know for sure, you should do better than 10 gun shots each into a human being who has not threatened your safety!

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[katydid23]

Once again, jumping to a conclusion not even drawn by LE yet -

“Everything indicates he was, but you can’t say factually it was him yet. We don’t have those facts yet.”

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206442339.html

He was answering this specific question:

Sacramento Police Chief Daniel Hahn said Wednesday he believes Clark was the man a neighbor four doors down reported was breaking car windows.

“Do I believe he was the one based on what we know now? I believe that, yeah, but can we factually say it yet? No. But when and if we can, we will put that out,” Hahn told The Sacramento Bee.


Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206442339.html#storylink=cpy


He was asked about the car windows, specifically. That happened BEFORE the police held was on the scene. But they did see him break into a neighbors sliding glass door.



"Deputies in the helicopter said they witnessed that man break the back sliding glass door of the house with a "tool bar."


The helicopter then began filming the man in infrared. He can be seen jumping a fence into the next yard, which is where Clark was living.

Body camera footage then shows police confronting Clark in that driveway before chasing him into the backyard and shooting him dead."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...#storylink=cpy

 

[bluesneakers]

Forget about skin color. Anyone who is told by police to stop and raise their hands better listen. Running and refusing to listen, regardless of skin color, will only make things worse, especially when handling what can be mistaken as a gun.

Can police officers shoot at fleeing individuals?

Only in very narrow circumstances. A seminal 1985 Supreme Court case, Tennessee vs. Garner, held that the police may not shoot at a fleeing person unless the officer reasonably believes that the individual poses a significant physical danger to the officer or others in the community. That means officers are expected to take other, less-deadly action during a foot or car pursuit unless the person being chased is seen as an immediate safety risk.

In other words, a police officer who fires at a fleeing man who a moment earlier murdered a convenience store clerk may have reasonable grounds to argue that the shooting was justified. But if that same robber never fired his own weapon, the officer would likely have a much harder argument.

“You don’t shoot fleeing felons. You apprehend them unless there are exigent circumstances — emergencies — that require urgent police action to safeguard the community as a whole,” said Greg Gilbertson, a police practices expert and criminal justice professor at Centralia College in Washington state.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/can-police-use-lethal-force-fleeing-suspect

Constitutionally, "police officers are allowed to shoot under two circumstances," says criminologist David Klinger of the University of Missouri St. Louis. The first circumstance is "to protect their life or the life of another innocent party" — what departments call the "defense-of-life" standard. The second circumstance is to prevent a suspect from escaping, but only if the officer has probable cause to think the suspect poses a dangerous threat to others.
https://www.vox.com/2014/8/13/59943...-investigation-legal-police-kill-force-murder

I can't find anything specifically saying they can shoot you if you don't raise your hands, but I don't think it qualifies as one of the two reasons listed above.

 

[bluesneakers]

If you're a police officer, you should know the difference between a gun and an iPhone. And if you don't know for sure, you should do better than 10 gun shots each into a human being who has not threatened your safety!

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People carrying cellphones (pens, pencils, wallets, etc.) are arrested every day without being murdered.

 

[katydid23]

And the police say that they can't factually prove that, at this time the believe it. And for a black man to run from police. In the US I don't find that unusual at all sadly.

When the helicopter first spotted him, he was not running from police. He was breaking into a neighbors sliding glass door. He only began running when he saw the hell overhead, putting their spotlight on him/

What was he doing in the neighbors back yard in the middle of the night?

 

[katydid23]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/23/us/sacramento-police-shooting-stephon-clark/index.html

(CNN)Stevante Clark says his 22-year-old brother was a devoted father who had recently changed his life, and he wasn't a thief.

He has a criminal history. Recidivism rates are very high.

 

[Woodland]

When the helicopter first spotted him, he was not running from police. He was breaking into a neighbors sliding glass door. He only began running when he saw the hell overhead, putting their spotlight on him/

What was he doing in the neighbors back yard in the middle of the night?

You have not provided a working link to this statement.

 

[katydid23]

I didn't realise breaking into a car was a death penalty offense.

Of course not. But he wasn't shot for breaking into cars.

 

[Woodland]

Of course not. But he wasn't shot for breaking into cars.

Do you have a working link for this statement?

 

[katydid23]

You have not provided a working link to this statement.

"Deputies in the helicopter said they witnessed that man break the back sliding glass door of the house with a "tool bar."



Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206442339.html#storylink=cpy

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206442339.html

The above link works for me.

if it doesn't work for you google this title:
Sacramento police chief believes black man killed by cops was alleged burglar from 911 call

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206442339.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Strangeworld]

If you're a police officer, you should know the difference between a gun and an iPhone. And if you don't know for sure, you should do better than 10 gun shots each into a human being who has not threatened your safety!

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So I'm curious because I'm in Australia - if he had entered the home of a citizen who owned a gun for protection, and he reached into his pocket, would he have been shot? I'm guessing in many cases yes. I absolutely believe there are dodgy shootings by police officers, but at what point do they need to put their lives at further risk and not go home to their families? From what reporting says, the dude was told to raise his hands - reaching into his pocket, regardless why, means the police have to assume the worst because their lives and others may, in the next instant, be at risk. This guy had a choice and he made it with devastating consequences, but that's not the cops' fault. I am basing this all on current reporting and IMO.

 

[jjenny]

So I'm curious because I'm in Australia - if he had entered the home of a citizen who owned a gun for protection, and he reached into his pocket, would he have been shot? I'm guessing in many cases yes. I absolutely believe there are dodgy shootings by police officers, but at what point do they need to put their lives at further risk and not go home to their families? From what reporting says, the dude was told to raise his hands - reaching into his pocket, regardless why, means the police have to assume the worst because their lives and others may, in the next instant, be at risk. This guy had a choice and he made it with devastating consequences, but that's not the cops' fault. I am basing this all on current reporting and IMO.

It depends on the state. In some states if he entered a home he didn't even need to put his hand in his pocket, because of stand your ground laws. Ca doesn't have such law.

 

[otto]

You have not provided a working link to this statement.

This link was already posted:

"Deputies in the helicopter said they witnessed that man break the back sliding glass door of the house with a "tool bar."

The helicopter then began filming the man in infrared. He can be seen jumping a fence into the next yard, which is where Clark was living.

Body camera footage then shows police confronting Clark in that driveway before chasing him into the backyard and shooting him dead.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206442339.html

 

[SuziQ]

When confronted by police, it sounds like the prowler first ran away, and then decided to pull out his cell phone rather than raise his hands. Police said "stop, show me your hands", they pursued him some more, again called for him to show his hands. When he pulled something out of his pocket, rather than raise his hands, officers thought it was a gun and there are shots fired. Officers are trained to respond, not to give suspects time to check their pockets prior to showing their hands.

What exactly should the officers have done differently under the circumstances? What do the protestors want police to do differently?

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/3/22/17151960/stephon-clark-sacramento-police-shooting-video

Exactly!!!! I guess wait for a gunman to shoot first, determine the perp is armed, and THEN shoot back. And it was so dark.

 

[katydid23]

Do you have a working link for this statement?

Although the case remains under investigation, veteran Sacramento civil rights attorney Mark Reichel reviewed the videos for The Bee and said he cannot see evidence that would lead to criminal charges against the officers.

Reichel, a former vice president of the Sacramento American Civil Liberties Union, said other key evidence may be the helicopter footage, which appears to show Clark advancing on the officers the moment they open fire with 20 shots.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article206459449.html#storylink=cpy