CA CA - William Cierzan, 58, Santa Clarita Valley, 26 Jan 2017 #2

[GigTu]

The SUV clearly leaves the driveway going left towards Festividad, the same way it came in. When leaving, once on Festividad it makes the most sense that the driver then headed left towards Bouquet Canyon Road, since turning right would take them to Las Mananitas Drive and deeper into the subdivisions.

Does anyone local know how many lanes each way on Bouquet Canyon Road? What is the distance to each signal?

How many lanes are there on Newhall Ranch Road?

 

[GigTu]

I have wondered about Whitney Canyon Park as a location. Many years ago (80's) I ran a paintball field up there and it was so vast and the terrain was rough with hills and dales. I see it's a park now but looking at pictures online it's still remote and vast and I wonder how much of it is used by hikers because there is a lot of area to cover out there. There was a body discovered out there by players one weekend but I wasn't working that day so I missed that experience.

How long would it take to get to your old paint ball site from the area of Cuatro Milpas Rd? Are there any homes or cars around there? What's the traffic like around there?

 

[sassyblue]

How long would it take to get to your old paint ball site from the area of Cuatro Milpas Rd? Are there any homes or cars around there? What's the traffic like around there?

I don't know how to post a map but the directions from 26810 Cuatro Milpas to Whitney Canyon Park, 20303 Newhall Ave, Newhall, CA 91321 says the distance is 5.8 miles, about 13 minutes driving time to the park.

From WC's drive a person would turn left onto Festividad Dr, then turn right at the 1st cross street onto Bouquet Canyon Rd, continue onto Railroad Ave then a slight left onto Newhall Ave which ends at Whitney Canyon.

I haven't been there since about 1990 but from pictures on the internet it looks the same...dirt road going in, large parking area and then hiking trails going in different directions. Doesn't look like there are homes up there either. Just wilderness. I am no longer local so I can't really answer many questions about what it is like now.

 

[liz b.]

I think only one person is involved in this. I'd love to hear what other people think, based on the video alone.

If you watch the video over and over and over and focus on one thing, then watch over and over and over to focus on something else, soon things start to become detectable.

For one, it's definitely a white person driving, you can see their hand, arm and face color. Keep trying, soon you see what seems a mop of hair, very light.

Keep rewatching, there is no one else in the SUV.

Look at the wheels. Fat, aftermarket rims and wide tires.

And so on. The SUV is very distinctive, the driver is detectable.

What features can you guys make out when you watch the video?

Also, who's car is already in the driveway when the SUV pulls up?

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/01/31/valencia-man-disappears-under-bizarre-circumstances/

Sometimes it looks like one person, sometimes two. But the thing that leaps out of this video : who is parked in WC's driveway, and when did that vehicle get there ? Wonder when WC;s wife would normally get home ? Was the vehicle already parked in the driveway gone when she got there ? If so, it would be caught on video, right ? Or is the vehicle already parked in the driveway a vehicle belonging to WC and/or his wife ?

I hope Le has pinged everyone's cell. Everyone's. jmo

 

[GigTu]

This is a great question I think that time, traffic and daylight have very little to do with the situation, however. Imagine you have the body of someone close to you in your car, at this point your freaking out trying to figure what your going to do with him. I think their minds were searching for place rather than worrying about anything else at that moment. Ive lived in this area for about 6 years but I did not grow up here and I am assuming that someone who did knows a few spots that accessible but only to those who know the area.

With that being said I definitely think they would have gone left onto Bouquet Canyon Rd. This takes you out to some very remote areas with little to no traffic. Its a desert area so there is not much cover so they had to have gone pretty far out, perhaps getting over onto Sierra Hwy which is very remote with no traffic and a bit more coverage.

Had they turned right there is a little turn off off of Bouquet Canyon Rd called Springbrook Ave that has a little industrial area, large trash bins and mountainy area etc. A small road leads pretty far back onto that mountain. This is next to a highly public area so I am not sure they could have done this during the day but in the cover of night it may have made a good dumping spot. They could have also gotten onto the 5N fwy where there is a very large lake (Pyramid Lake) and nothing but mountains.

Santa Clarita is in a valley so we are literally surrounded on all sides by mountains. No matter which direction they chose to go they could have found a remote area where very few people frequent. Its unfortunate but lets hope he is found and soon.

Revisiting this post. Thank you, xmsmadex. These are really good observations. Can you clarify a few things for me? Once on Bouquet Canyon Road, how many lanes are there to go left?

In looking through old posts, it sounds like TMS searched in the Drayton/Springbrook area, It seems like there's total fencing around the back with zero access to those mountain roads. Is there another way in there, or is it a monitored piece of property?

 

[GigTu]

I don't know how to post a map but the directions from 26810 Cuatro Milpas to Whitney Canyon Park, 20303 Newhall Ave, Newhall, CA 91321 says the distance is 5.8 miles, about 13 minutes driving time to the park.

From WC's drive a person would turn left onto Festividad Dr, then turn right at the 1st cross street onto Bouquet Canyon Rd, continue onto Railroad Ave then a slight left onto Newhall Ave which ends at Whitney Canyon.

I haven't been there since about 1990 but from pictures on the internet it looks the same...dirt road going in, large parking area and then hiking trails going in different directions. Doesn't look like there are homes up there either. Just wilderness. I am no longer local so I can't really answer many questions about what it is like now.

Wow. Great info. Thanks? Even though you are pretty out of the loop, do you think you could guesstimate how much time it would take to get to the paintball site when leaving on a Thursday at 5:12 pm, in January... with no roll off areas and all the traffic in SCV is getting off Hwy. 14 right there?

 

[GigTu]

I'm really interested in hearing everyone who is local give a % breakdown of if they'd go left or right at each intersection. We know for a fact the SUV headed left from the driveway up to Festividad. From there, what % left and what % right for each intersection. Remember, we're assuming the driver was in PANIC MODE with a body in the back.


For example:
Festividad - 100% left, 0% right
Bouquet Canyon - __% left, __ % right


And so on.

 

[GigTu]

Its huge... and it depends on the time of year, but even then not really. Its pretty remote, right now probably not that busy.

Castaic lake is closer. You have to head north on the Golden State Freeway ( 5 for about 10 miles. Driving to either lake would be too risky. Vehicle driving in those areas would likely be noticed.

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You are right it is closer, the water level is just really low there right now. And I agree I doubt its a place they would have gone, someone just asked about bodies of water near by. Those areas arent really patrolled and you have to take your vehicle in order to get to the water, theres only 1 road that leads to each lake so it wouldnt be viewed as odd at all.

The closet body of water is actually Bouquet Reservoir. It is several miles continuing on Bouquet Cyn Rd which is the road you turn off of to get into the tract of homes where Will ( and I) live. It is in the Angeles Crest Forest on the back way to Palmdale. If I remember clearly the reservoir is surrounded by chain link fencing.


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What would it take to hold down 140 to keep it from floating up? Remember Stacy Peterson? After awhile, her body bloated and broke apart and eventually floated up to the surface in pieces. Grotesque.

 

[GigTu]

I don't know how to post a map but the directions from 26810 Cuatro Milpas to Whitney Canyon Park, 20303 Newhall Ave, Newhall, CA 91321 says the distance is 5.8 miles, about 13 minutes driving time to the park.


From WC's drive a person would turn left onto Festividad Dr, then turn right at the 1st cross street onto Bouquet Canyon Rd, continue onto Railroad Ave then a slight left onto Newhall Ave which ends at Whitney Canyon.


I haven't been there since about 1990 but from pictures on the internet it looks the same...dirt road going in, large parking area and then hiking trails going in different directions. Doesn't look like there are homes up there either. Just wilderness. I am no longer local so I can't really answer many questions about what it is like now.

On Google maps, Newhall is a main entry into the Santa Clarita subdivisions there, which would make it a major offramp. Can anyone local verify that this is a super busy offramp or not?


When getting a closer look, I also see it ends as a developed parking lot.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

What would it take to hold down 140 to keep it from floating up? Remember Stacy Peterson? After awhile, her body bloated and broke apart and eventually floated up to the surface in pieces. Grotesque.

Didnt some up that happening have to do with her unborn son?
May they rip together.
Also, hubby kept checking where she was found.

 

[xmsmadex]

On Google maps, Newhall is a main entry into the Santa Clarita subdivisions there, which would make it a major offramp. Can anyone local verify that this is a super busy offramp or not?


When getting a closer look, I also see it ends as a developed parking lot.

It is actually, Newhall Ranch road is a huge 4 lane road with 50 mile an hour speed limit. And although its rarely empty it doesnt get backed up ever and most people are headed south. Had they chose to go this wY but avoid the 5 fwy, the 126 takes you to some very rrmote places. Tgere are roads that lead you back into the mountains with no one on them and thrres another lake in Piru which is typically empty. No matter where they chose to go there would have been people on the road this is unavoidable unless they headed out towards palmdale or lancaster. Roads like Sierra hwy are typically empty and have quite a bit of coverage. But at this point no one knows who they are or that WC is even missing. So their options are almost unlimited.

 

[nonanks]

I think only one person is involved in this. I'd love to hear what other people think, based on the video alone.

If you watch the video over and over and over and focus on one thing, then watch over and over and over to focus on something else, soon things start to become detectable.

For one, it's definitely a white person driving, you can see their hand, arm and face color. Keep trying, soon you see what seems a mop of hair, very light.

Keep rewatching, there is no one else in the SUV.

Look at the wheels. Fat, aftermarket rims and wide tires.

And so on. The SUV is very distinctive, the driver is detectable.

What features can you guys make out when you watch the video?

Also, who's car is already in the driveway when the SUV pulls up?

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/01/31/valencia-man-disappears-under-bizarre-circumstances/

Only one person in the vehicle, the driver. I also see the arm of a white person.

 

[xmsmadex]

The SUV clearly leaves the driveway going left towards Festividad, the same way it came in. When leaving, once on Festividad it makes the most sense that the driver then headed left towards Bouquet Canyon Road, since turning right would take them to Las Mananitas Drive and deeper into the subdivisions.

Does anyone local know how many lanes each way on Bouquet Canyon Road? What is the distance to each signal?

How many lanes are there on Newhall Ranch Road?

Bouquet Canyon Rd. has 4 lanes going left and 3 going right. Newhall Ranch Rd. is another large street with 4 lanes going left and right. Both streets have 50 mph speed limit. Bouquet Canyon Rd. does eventually turn into a 2 lane hwy and leads out to some very rural areas and lots of little roads, some dirt, that take you deep into the mountains.

 

[xmsmadex]

Sometimes it looks like one person, sometimes two. But the thing that leaps out of this video : who is parked in WC's driveway, and when did that vehicle get there ? Wonder when WC;s wife would normally get home ? Was the vehicle already parked in the driveway gone when she got there ? If so, it would be caught on video, right ? Or is the vehicle already parked in the driveway a vehicle belonging to WC and/or his wife ?

I hope Le has pinged everyone's cell. Everyone's. jmo

I do think that's just another one of their vehicles, in news report videos outside the home you see that same car parked next to Linda's car. So they must have 3 cars total is my only guess.

 

[SmartSassyBBW]

From what I remember Magic Mountain was closed in January of 2017 during weekdays and that's the reason WC was considered a part time employee and watching golf on a Thursday. I just checked their calendar and the park won't be open for weekdays until the last week of March. So I doubt there was any way anyone was able to get into the park using badges if the whole park was closed. JMO.

Places like that are closed to the public but have staff still working onsite.


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[xmsmadex]

Only one person in the vehicle, the driver. I also see the arm of a white person.

What doesn't make sense to me is how they got WC into the car alone? I haven't seen and updated pics of who we suspect but they weren't very big, neither is WC but dead weight is heavy and tricky to maneuver. Maybe someone was in the back seat? I wish we knew whether or not the suv was seen coming to the house earlier that day or if its the first time its seen? The video must have supported the nephews statement or LE would be questioning him hard and he would be POI. This case just doesn't make sense to me!

 

[xmsmadex]

Revisiting this post. Thank you, xmsmadex. These are really good observations. Can you clarify a few things for me? Once on Bouquet Canyon Road, how many lanes are there to go left?

In looking through old posts, it sounds like TMS searched in the Drayton/Springbrook area, It seems like there's total fencing around the back with zero access to those mountain roads. Is there another way in there, or is it a monitored piece of property?

4 lanes go left. Good job for finding that I did not know they had searched there and I didn't know it was fenced off. So I am not sure if it is monitored, it was just the closest place to WC's house that seems plausible.

 

[liz b.]

I do think that's just another one of their vehicles, in news report videos outside the home you see that same car parked next to Linda's car. So they must have 3 cars total is my only guess.

I think you're right.

 

[SmartSassyBBW]

I'm local. Live a couple of streets over. Not sure why someone was asking how much traffic and how many lanes in each directions on local roads. It is a suburb of lots of tracts homes with large fast moving roads to get around and to the freeways which are within 3-4 miles of our tract of houses.
Our tract of houses is very close to wilderness areas. If someone did harm to Will, the drive to bury him would only be a few minutes to find an open undeveloped area. Lots of choices for the bad guys. It is one reason this area is a known dumping area for bodies that come in from other areas. I don't see how the number of lanes on a road would be pertinent. Bodies of water. Bouquet reservoir. Castaic Lake. Pyramid Lake. Lake Piru. All within 30-45 minute drive.
Reservoir is closest but may be fenced off. Speaking of fences. As I was pulling onto Festividad off of Bouquet Canyon Rd I noticed a jogger running along the sidewalk in Bouquet Canyon Rd along the fence that encloses the empty lot behind Will's house (where a gas station used to be). I noticed that the fence dwarfed her. It is at least 6 feet tall. FYI.


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[GigTu]

I'm just trying to get a feel for the area, and try to figure out where a vehicle in a mad hurry would go on Thursday at 5:12 pm - in the heart of commuting time - to go hide something as soon as possible and then get home to have an alibi.