cadaver dog hits in Irwin home~search warrant served on family home #5

[KCMommie]

Has anyone gotten to the bottom of WHO was the last potentially credible person to see little Lisa alive?? WHEN? Thanks!!

 

[CN2Souls]

The only fence I am on now is:

Which one did it....?

And /or If it was DB solely,

Is JI involved or is he just really guilible...

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Yes if the blood or urine is from a DECEASED person.
No hit if the blood or urine is from a LIVING person.
Big difference.

Not true, according to trial testimony I've heard from a cadaver dog handler. According to him, if you cut your finger and bled on the ground, and the blood began to decompose...a dog might hit on that.

Just telling you what a cadaver dog handler has said. I have zero knowledge personally.

 

[sarx]

Ok, this thread is flying really fast...
Gonna try to answer everyone's questions, if I missed one or more, please ask again!
No, an HRD dog should not hit on the fluids from water breaking.
No, an HRD dog should never hit on urine, diapers or anything of the sort.
No, a body does not have to bleed out or lose it's bladder or anything else for a dog to still be able to hit on it.
Yes, a dog can smell what they are looking for quite possibly from the moment of death, or even as the body is in it's final moments/seconds. (You don't get a lot of volunteers for this one, kwim?)
No, the body does not need to have been in that spot for hours. Think of something rotten in your fridge. You open it up, how long do you need to hold the door open to smell it? Dogs have ten fold the power.
Decomp dogs, Cadaver Dogs, HRD dogs, the name changes depending on who you are talking to and largely how long they've been around. The standard with those that are constantly progressing with the field is HRD dogs. Oh and there are now groups that are straight up making up their own names, which for some of us is good for a laugh, but in reality makes it really confusing for the rest of the world.

Did I miss anything?

 

[keeponsearching]

I think I have finally caught up, was gone all day on a fieldtrip. I have nothing to input at this moment.

 

[*~Aimee~*]

There was some speculation that those pictures with the tubs in them were taken long ago, at her baby shower (or of baby shower gifts after the fact). Not sure if that was ever proven or not.

there is a video with a reporter in the house and the plastic tubs and pink baby tub on top is in the video. So it is recently.

 

[Lera213]

Getting here late...did anyone try to magnify those images of the search warrant yet? If so, can you post them please? (I'm still reading @ page 4 of this thread.)

Let me know when you get to this post...I'm off to do dishes and I know I'll be backed up a few pages.

Mods, Thank you for your understanding, help, concern, and all you do!

To MK :floorlaugh:

 

[marge_rita]

Not true, according to court testimony I've heard from cadaver dog handlers. According to him, if you cut your fingers and bled on the ground, and the blood began to decompose...a dog might hit on that.

Just telling you what a cadaver dog handler has said. I have zero knowledge personally.

Id like to see that please. I'm close to someone who handles and trains cadaver dogs and we talked about this at length last night.

 

[21merc7]

Getting here late...did anyone try to magnify those images of the search warrant yet? If so, can you post them please? (I'm still reading @ page 4 of this thread.)

Full documents in pdf format:

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

 

[matou]

Please I'm not picking on anyone but I want to make a point here:

DB has lied about a lot, so how come many here are believing her story that she was DRUNK? How can you believe anything she states as true? Do you not see how her attorney had her make this statement so they have a defense?

I'm totally with you Lera. Great timing that DB has a lawyer now, KWIM? She has lied and will continue to lie. I really thought she would have broken down and confessed by now and I can't believe she is still playing dumb about everything.

 

[krimekat]

please attack the post and not the poster... :seeya:

nursebeeme (MODs) rocks! Wow - glad I've not missed much noooo. This is too sad! Is this the house they lived in or are living now?

Thanks!

 

[liz b.]

ah, but she said there was no accident.

"that's what 911 is for" to quote Deb

Never believed she had an accident with Lisa...MOO

 

[believe09]

Ok, this thread is flying really fast...
Gonna try to answer everyone's questions, if I missed one or more, please ask again!
No, an HRD dog should not hit on the fluids from water breaking.
No, an HRD dog should never hit on urine, diapers or anything of the sort.
No, a body does not have to bleed out or lose it's bladder or anything else for a dog to still be able to hit on it.
Yes, a dog can smell what they are looking for quite possibly from the moment of death, or even as the body is in it's final moments/seconds. (You don't get a lot of volunteers for this one, kwim?)
No, the body does not need to have been in that spot for hours. Think of something rotten in your fridge. You open it up, how long do you need to hold the door open to smell it? Dogs have ten fold the power.
Decomp dogs, Cadaver Dogs, HRD dogs, the name changes depending on who you are talking to and largely how long they've been around. The standard with those that are constantly progressing with the field is HRD dogs. Oh and there are now groups that are straight up making up their own names, which for some of us is good for a laugh, but in reality makes it really confusing for the rest of the world.

Did I miss anything?

So if this was a HRD, we can be reasonably sure of it's accuracy, but if it was some other kind of dog perhaps not? Thanks Sarx!!

 

[sarx]

Oh, and I would be very surprised if they only had 1 dog. These folks know what they are doing and I can't picture them not bringing other dogs in for blind confirmation.

 

[nursebeeme]

Thank you-it says blood, urine and feces with human scent on it, hence my confusion.

What about urine or feces that has been on the carpet for a while?

Did they bring another dog in to confirm the hit?

ETA: From the same link I posted before:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Human Remains Detection Dog
This Detection Dog is a specialist and has never been trained to look for live humans. They specialize in crime scenes, old cases, small scent sources and residual scent. These dogs have been trained to exclude fresh human scent along with all other animal scents."[/FONT]

So a cadaver dog has not been trained to exclude fresh human scent?

sarx and oriah can answer this better than that article imhoo... but this comes up every time with cadaver dogs...

they hit on putriscene and cadaverine which are produced by dead human bodies.. these substances are not found in urine and blood of a living person.

hope that helps and hope sarx and oriah get back in here quick :escape:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Id like to see that please. I'm close to someone who handles and trains cadaver dogs and we talked about this at length last night.

The handlers name was Forgey, and he testified in the Caylee Anthony trial. You could look up his testimony in trial transcripts, I guess. I don't have a link handy. Sorry.

 

[believe09]

I would be surprised as well, sarx, but there doesnt seem to be a mention of another one.

 

[4Jacy]

He is in Iraq.

Thank you curositycat. I'm glad he's not here but sorry he's in Iraq.

 

[Patty G]

PLEASE, if you post a MSM link here, kindly add it to the Media thread as this is a solid thread for reference when we need something.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151102"]Media links~NO DISCUSSION PLEASE - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[stillwatersc]

The witnesses who saw the man with the baby at midnight - if it had been JI they saw, would we likely have caught wind of that by now?

JI was definitely at work at midnight - hasn't that been verified?

I am off the fence with this news. My guess is an accidental death while mom was intoxicated. Maybe Lisa found pills and overdosed or drowned in the bath. A 10 month old can crawl and can pull themselves up to standing.