Can this be used at the trial?

[Pollywog]

She knew it was Caylee. She knew the location the skull was found so she knew it was her. She got upset because she was found. I think KC thought if no body, no conviction.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Even I knew it was Caylee, I don't get it.

I get where Pirate is going with this because I went there on Dec. 11. I was at work when they found her and when I got home and found out, I said to myself to not get excited, because there had been so many times that it might have been her...but when I heard, after all the other times of KC being non-responsive and this time needing to be sedated, I knew it was really her, because of KC's reaction. She didn't react other times because she knew the other times that it wasn't Caylee because she knew where SHE put her.

And although I don't think that Clergy will be able to testify, the corrections officers certainly will!

ETA: If my daughter were missing and I really didn't know where she was, I would be devastated and wanting to know if it were my daughter EVERY TIME they found anything at all. Not just when they really found her.

 

[CBTampa]

I get where Pirate is going with this because I went there on Dec. 11. I was at work when they found her and when I got home and found out, I said to myself to not get excited, because there had been so many times that it might have been her...but when I heard, after all the other times of KC being non-responsive and this time needing to be sedated, I knew it was really her, because of KC's reaction. She didn't react other times because she knew the other times that it wasn't Caylee because she knew where SHE put her.

And although I don't think that Clergy will be able to testify, the corrections officers certainly will!

ETA: If my daughter were missing and I really didn't know where she was, I would be devastated and wanting to know if it were my daughter EVERY TIME they found anything at all. Not just when they really found her.

That is exactly right. Until she was postively identified I didn't get excited even though I felt like it was her.

KC was telling her parents that she felt she was still alive. Look where the Athonys were when the news broke. They were in NY and interviewing someone who thought they saw her. Accordig to JB she was under phyclogial watch. I would have thought this would have been the case since Caylee went missing. Instead we saw someone who was emotionless until the news hit about a small body being found, it wasn't about Caylee, it was still and continues to be about KC.

 

[texas77878]

I thought she said "I can't believe this is happening to me!".

 

[RR0004]

That is exactly right. Until she was postively identified I didn't get excited even though I felt like it was her.

KC was telling her parents that she felt she was still alive. Look where the Athonys were when the news broke. They were in NY and interviewing someone who thought they saw her. Accordig to JB she was under phyclogial watch. I would have thought this would have been the case since Caylee went missing. Instead we saw someone who was emotionless until the news hit about a small body being found, it wasn't about Caylee, it was still and continues to be about KC.

I was of the mindset that Casey may have thought the tide was turning with all the possible "sightings". I think she was banking on the "reasonable doubt" prior to the find. All that flew out the window when Caylee's body was located. I think that's what brought the strong reaction...and the "NOW" part of her statement.
FWIW, The As were in CA.

 

[CBTampa]

I was of the mindset that Casey may have thought the tide was turning with all the possible "sightings". I think she was banking on the "reasonable doubt" prior to the find. All that flew out the window when Caylee's body was located. I think that's what brought the strong reaction...and the "NOW" part of her statement.
FWIW, The As were in CA.

You are right about CA...my bad.

I wish I could find a link to the that report.

 

[RR0004]

You are right about CA...my bad.

I wish I could find a link to the that report.

I've been trying as well...it just takes so much time!

 

[ThoughtElf]

I've been trying as well...it just takes so much time!

Hey RR0004,

TRy starting here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67819&page=35 Last post on the page is 875, and continue forward from there. I am sure the report of her reaction will be in one of those links somewhere - those are all the media links from Dec. 11th

 

[panthera]

My reason in asking was very well explained by others- prior finds did not net the same reaction that this one did, according to what we heard.

If it is true that the find in the little econ was met with little reaction or concern while the find at Suburban was met with such a reaction- and a need for sedatives, before it was even confirmed that this body was that of a little girl, let alone that it was Caylee, it is clear that Casey knew that act 1 of her little play was over.

I agree it's like an admission that she knew Caylee had been found, but I also think the defense could try to explain it that somebody had successfully framed Casey by putting the body so close to the house. Not that I believe they'd succeed though! MOO

 

[Jersey*Girl]

In all fairness, I think we all knew it was Caylee, and even if it was presented at trial, I'm not seeing how it would prove anything? Enlighten me, please.

Even I knew it was Caylee, I don't get it.

Hi JBean & my_tee_mouse.:blowkiss: I know what Pirate is saying. KC didn't react to what was found in the river, KC didn't react to the bra & other clothes being found in the woods, & KC didn't react to the wallet & makeup bag being found...BUT...KC did react to them saying they found a bag with bones in it by her house. It's my belief that she didn't react to the others b/c she knew it wasn't Caylee that was found in the prior finds. Yes, it is my belief that they can use her reaction to such findings, as long as the defense isn't able to get some of that evidence thrown out. If even a partial amount of that evidence (from the crime scene) is thrown out, then I don't think they'd be able to use her reaction. I'm not sure, so don't freak out on me anybody, but I do think they can use her reaction to the find.

 

[JBean]

Hi JBean & my_tee_mouse.:blowkiss: I know what Pirate is saying. KC didn't react to what was found in the river, KC didn't react to the bra & other clothes being found in the woods, & KC didn't react to the wallet & makeup bag being found...BUT...KC did react to them saying the found a bag with bones in it. Yes, it is my belief that they can use her reaction to such findings, as long as the defense isn't able to get some of that evidence thrown out. If even a partial amount of that evidence (from the crime scene) is thrown out, then I don't think they'd be able to use her reaction. I'm not sure, so don't freak out on me anybody, but I do think they can use her reaction to the find.

Okay I am truly not trying to be troublesome, but who wouldn't react to a bag of bones found yards from their home?
I don't get the wallet or bones parallel at all.

 

[Gracenote]

Okay I am truly not trying to be troublesome, but who wouldn't react to a bag of bones found yards from their home?
I don't get the wallet or bones parallel at all.

I guess it comes down to whether some on the jury reason like you do or like the others do. Interesting that there can be so many different interpretations of things. Makes me worry a little about getting a conviction.

 

[JBean]

I guess it comes down to whether some on the jury reason like you do or like the others do. Interesting that there can be so many different interpretations of things. Makes me worry a little about getting a conviction.

what I mean is
1. we found a wallet and some clothes
2. we found the bones of a small child near where you live (and your child is missing).

How do they even compare? What am I missing?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Okay I am truly not trying to be troublesome, but who wouldn't react to a bag of bones found yards from their home?
I don't get the wallet or bones parallel at all.

what I mean is
1. we found a wallet and some clothes
2. we found the bones of a small child near where you live (and your child is missing).

How do they even compare? What am I missing?

B/c it was reported on the news that people were speculating those items could have belonged to KC, or that KC could have ditched them. She knew that she didn't, or that they couldn't be connected to her, so therefore she didn't react to those finds. It was on the news everytime something was found and she had no reaction to any of it, even when LP said he thought Caylee was put into the river & had divers down there. But when the bag of bones was found by her house, KC reacted, b/c she knew it was Caylee. KC didn't react to the bones found by LP in Little Econ River. Also, something to think about: KC knew several neighborhood pets were buried in those woods by her house. Why would she have a reaction to a bag of bones that could actually have belonged to an animal, since some kids throw the carcasses or deceased animals in garbage bags before they bury it, unless she knew it was her daughter? Does that make any sense or did I make it more confusing? Sorry if I did that. Keep in mind that when the call came in and was released, they (media) mentioned nothing about the clothing etc that was also in the bag...only the skull & bones. KC broke down, then it was reported that more items were in the bag (same night but a few minutes lapse in time inbetween media releases).

 

[miabellamoure]

There had been a few false alarms before. Supposedly this was the only time she reacted to something being found. Since she knew where the body was none of the other searches or reports of evidence were of any concern to KC.

Oh yeh, she reacted alright because, she didn't need to wait for Forensics...she already knew where Caylee was...right where she left her.

Simple as that...and I sure hope the Prosecution plays this up for the jury during the trial.

 

[lawlady84]

what I mean is
1. we found a wallet and some clothes
2. we found the bones of a small child near where you live (and your child is missing).

How do they even compare? What am I missing?

My thought was that KC kept saying Caylee was alive, safe somewhere with the Nanny- never said Caylee was in danger- that if she really believed that, she just wouldn't have believed this was Caylee.

The reaction would be, "that is so sad for that child, but I know its not Caylee, Caylee is in Tampa with Zanni!" - OR - a complete breakdown. If you really believe your child is alive, and you find out there were baby remains found near your house, you'd probably be wailing "NOOOOOO NO IT CANT BE" a total flip out, not "this can't be happening."


And then to the original poster, I think it can be admitted as evidence of state of mind - since it wasn't "testimonial."

Things are inadmissible as hearsay when they're introduced to prove the truth of the matter asserted - Like if A and B have a conversation, and B refuses to testify at trial, A can't testify to what B said. There are millions of exceptions, but that's the general gist.

 

[LambChop]

Think about what KC said, "This can't be happening, now."....Not "How can this be happening. I know ZG loved Caylee, she would have never done anythng to hurt her. Please tell me it is not Caylee." "This can't be happening now" speaks volumes of this can't be happening to me. This was not in the script.

If the jury gets to hear her on the tapes and once all evidence is presented, the above statement will give them the impression KC was only concerned about her own welfare. I would think.

No emotion on the Universal interview tapes jumps out at people right away. She really does not care whether LE finds her daughter or not.

 

[DotsEyes]

It was reported that she turned red in the face, got weak in the knees and said "Oh God, this can't be happening." Then the sedatives were given.

(there wasd no NOW or TO ME added)

The news that made her react this way was, if we just use the bare minimum of facts known at the time, "the skeletal remains of a child were found in the woods, right off of Suburban behind Mr. So&So's house on Hopesprings. The remains are consistent with a child of about 3 years of age with hair the color of Caylee's. The ME is examining the remains for identification, but a tentative ID has been made and LE is sure that this is Caylee."

IIRC KC was ordered back to her "dorm room" when the JBP dive search was on the TV.

So, it wasn't as if she just ignored the JBP news and turned away uninterested, preferring her room - she was sent there. Further, nothing was discovered from the search such that a pastor was called in to tell her the news. Even a idiot like KC can tell that something is amis when a pastor shows up after a skeleton is found.

I really don't think her reaction is indicative of much at all, except for turning red in the face. I am sure that she practiced what she would do if this moment ever came, however her face gave her away. People turn red from embarrasment or being "caught" in front of others. People blanch when they are emotionally shocked. KC turned red. Caught. In front of her only ally - JB.

 

[NancyT]

While I think Baez would be able to use this in his defense, the state can use it to contrast the difference between Casey's reaction to this, and the reaction she had when it was reported that LP found something in the Little Econ River.

 

[Ames]

It was reported that she turned red in the face, got weak in the knees and said "Oh God, this can't be happening." Then the sedatives were given.

(there wasd no NOW or TO ME added)

The news that made her react this way was, if we just use the bare minimum of facts known at the time, "the skeletal remains of a child were found in the woods, right off of Suburban behind Mr. So&So's house on Hopesprings. The remains are consistent with a child of about 3 years of age with hair the color of Caylee's. The ME is examining the remains for identification, but a tentative ID has been made and LE is sure that this is Caylee."

IIRC KC was ordered back to her "dorm room" when the JBP dive search was on the TV.

So, it wasn't as if she just ignored the JBP news and turned away uninterested, preferring her room - she was sent there. Further, nothing was discovered from the search such that a pastor was called in to tell her the news. Even a idiot like KC can tell that something is amis when a pastor shows up after a skeleton is found.

I really don't think her reaction is indicative of much at all, except for turning red in the face. I am sure that she practiced what she would do if this moment ever came, however her face gave her away. People turn red from embarrasment or being "caught" in front of others. People blanch when they are emotionally shocked. KC turned red. Caught. In front of her only ally - JB.

It was reported that after hearing that the divers had found something, she then turned around and left...on her own. Even IF she had of been ordered to leave...and she did NOT know if that bag contained Caylee's body or not , she would have been kicking and screaming to be able to see what it was that the divers pulled up. If my child was really missing...and thought to be dead...and I was in jail charged with her murder, watching the news about a bag of bones being brought up by a group of divers..I am not just going to turn around and walk out of the room. And if I am ordered out...I wouldn't leave without a fight. She just turned around and left. Because she KNEW that the bag of bones was NOT CAYLEE.