Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[news.talk]

now you're getting it but distributors drive beemers and meet in nicer establishments. peddlers go to bars distributors meet at the Hilton.

Do you have any basis for this - analysis?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Personally, I'm skeptical they have found the bodies and haven't disclosed it. Given the OB's have such a strong faith, they will be eager to properly lay their loved ones to rest and I doubt LE would deny them that right indefinitely. Given that there are already so many rumours floating around town, I doubt that any service/memorial/ceremony could be kept quiet/secret. (MOO, even if they were asked to forego "regular" processes such as an obituary, public announcement, etc, that they would feel compelled to do a prayer service at minimum)
On another note, also MOO, LE must have something in their cache of evidence that leads them to believe there are bodies and that they have a good chance of recovering them.

I feel the same way and agree, I just don't think they've been found yet.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I agree. I'm also not sure what would be gained by withholding the information that the victims' remains have been recovered.

IMO, and as others have stated here, I believe the volume of blood at the Liknes home was enough to believe the victims to be deceased, and that LE waited for DNA testing to reveal if the blood was from 1, 2 or 3 victims. At that point, they lifted the Amber alert as it was clear NO was also dead. Sometimes the amount of blood can lead only to the conclusion that death has occurred - I think the phrase used is to say the injuries to cause that amount of blood loss would be "incompatible with life". IMHO

Agree with this also, blood volume probably helped with their conclusion and I think they'll be found intact.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

He would just need to know one person to sell it to in bulk. It's just like any other manufacturing. He could have even been approached by someone that knew he was a chemist and asked him or hired him to make meth. Then he was paid for his services and the guy who paid him broke it up into medium sized baggies and sold it to 10 people and those 10 people broke it up into 50 small baggies and sold it to a bunch of drug addicts in the bars and on the streets.

Which brings it back to Stan's original point. Thank you. If it were only that easy to just sell it without LE catching on, or the competition taking exception... It's an organized occupation.

 

[winnnancy]

I am 99% sure this is NOT a working farm. With only 40 acres it would be a losing proposition. It costs too much to run machinery, pay fertilizer, etc. if anything, I could see the land rented out but that's about it or maybe pasture. Besides everything was way too overgrown to be a working farm. MOO

40 acres is not a farm!!!!its an estate. Locally, we're seeing the smaller farms swallowed up and most appear to be 2500 to 3500 acres now. Who will spend a quarter of a million dollars for machinery to combine 40 acres? The land may be rented out but 40 acres is not going to generate very much income!
When they moved it was rural living ( healthy for the kids) with maybe a chicken coop and a good sized vegetable garden.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Awesome find PennyM. For those who question DG's intellect - how say you now?

Just words, I work in the health field and know my medical terminology and can toss some big, hard to pronounce words around but that doesn't make me a doctor

 

[Sillybilly]

For those who questions gangs or organized crime (and yes, mafia) in Alberta, the following info is from the John Howard Society of Alberta (including info from Criminal Intelligence Service of Alberta):

http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/pub/gangs.htm#trad

HA has been in Alberta since 1997 (not sure how long their Calgary clubhouse has been there). They have the province wrapped up pretty tight (same as other territories they are in), so most of the lesser gangs are either puppet clubs or prospector clubs (or risk elimination)

Some violence associated with just two of the lesser gangs in Calgary:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/pdf/FOBFKgraphic.pdf

IF IF IF DG was manufacturing drugs to any extent, the word would be out on the street and if he was known to be stepping on toes, well ... probably wouldn't have toes left, or whatever. So, again IF he was manufacturing, it would most likely be with the blessing of somebody in the biz.

 

[news.talk]

Which brings it back to Stan's original point. Thank you. If it were only that easy to just sell it without LE catching on, or the competition taking exception... It's an organized occupation.

It's important to note, that by all reports and court documents, DG and his meth lab was not linked to any other source. For all we know, it was a small-time operation that was not very successful.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Put me in the camp with stan laurel and lynck. I also think such a crime would take two people. I makes sense that in the logistics the person in the green truck was acting as lookout as he drove around the neighbourhood, and then picked up the bodies and the second person/other people.
To leave the green truck in the driveway, in the back alley, or even down the street would be foolish in a pre-meditated crime.

I've also been on the fence of an accomplice. But the LE statement of one suspect had me try to focus on DG. But now I'm thinking maybe it's possible that LE is just saying one suspect to put the other at ease and under surveillance with 'covert assets'. Maybe LE is playing dumb for an accomplice to be watched, but wouldn't DG have turned on his partner if there was one? Why would he take all the charges and let his partner run free?

 

[stan laurel]

DG would be a manufacturer, not a distributor. manufacturers always make less. When you buy a new car who makes more money, the factory or the dealership?

no kidding.

 

[news.talk]

For those who questions gangs or organized crime (and yes, mafia) in Alberta, the following info is from the John Howard Society of Alberta (including info from Criminal Intelligence Service of Alberta):

http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/pub/gangs.htm#trad

HA has been in Alberta since 1997 (not sure how long their Calgary clubhouse has been there). They have the province wrapped up pretty tight (same as other territories they are in), so most of the lesser gangs are either puppet clubs or prospector clubs (or risk elimination)

Some violence associated with just two of the lesser gangs in Calgary:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/pdf/FOBFKgraphic.pdf

IF IF IF DG was manufacturing drugs to any extent, the word would be out on the street and if he was known to be stepping on toes, well ... probably wouldn't have toes left, or whatever. So, again IF he was manufacturing, it would most likely be with the blessing of somebody in the biz.

Not necessarily... Anyone with the ability to Google can set up a meth lab. Doesn't make him part of organized crime and a larger conspiracy.

In my experience, cases that have organized crime components and many layers like some are suggesting in this case, don't have charges levelled so quickly and definitively as in this case. If it did, the Crown and LE would have waited and brought other charges.

 

[Sillybilly]

Not necessarily... Anyone with the ability to Google can set up a meth lab. Doesn't make him part of organized crime and a larger conspiracy.

In my experience, cases that have organized crime components and many layers like some are suggesting in this case, don't have charges levelled so quickly and definitively as in this case. If it did, the Crown and LE would have waited and brought other charges.

Thus my wording "IF IF IF DG was manufacturing drugs to any extent ...."

We don't even know if anything was found at the farm to indicate he is currently involved in any drug production or activity.

ETA: By "to any extent" I meant on a grand scale (I think my age is showing by the use of that term )

 

[otto]

Yes. The neighbours of Dellen Millard's mother were interviewed about her habits. The parents of the Calgary student made a statement to express their sympathies with the victim. The parents of the Boston bombers,one son'wife and her parents were all the subjects of news reports.

The Lanzas, parents of the Sandy Hook killer, were the subject of a major New Yorker profile earlier this year not to mention everything that went before.

It is normal that people want information about the families of the accused in cases like these.

Excluding media reporting surrounding criminal activities in other countries, it sounds like there were some gossiping neighbours in an Ontario case (everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame), and De Grood, a 33-year veteran of the Calgary Police Service, publicly expressed his condolences to the families of his son's victims. I think that the families of the accused are in many ways the first victims of the person that commits murder, and that they deserve privacy.

 

[stan laurel]

I've also been on the fence of an accomplice. But the LE statement of one suspect had me try to focus on DG. But now I'm thinking maybe it's possible that LE is just saying one suspect to put the other at ease and under surveillance with 'covert assets'. Maybe LE is playing dumb for an accomplice to be watched, but wouldn't DG have turned on his partner if there was one? Why would he take all the charges and let his partner run free?

maybe he has. maybe it was his partner that I.D'd the truck before the public were shown it.

you know what's funny and completely unrelated to the quote (too lazy to make a new post, sorry),, I sleuthed "m Hartley" which brought me to a phone number in lethbridge, no big deal, so then I sleuthed the number which brought me to a soil testing company (legit) but later sleuthing did not place an m Hartley with the company.

 

[otto]

"It wasn't me" defense.

I think the line is "I wasn't there, but if I was I didn't do it, and if I did it, it's because I had no choice."

 

[stan laurel]

Thus my wording "IF IF IF DG was manufacturing drugs to any extent ...."

We don't even know if anything was found at the farm to indicate he is currently involved in any drug production or activity.

ETA: By "to any extent" I meant on a grand scale (I think my age is showing by the use of that term )

a young man was killed in Vancouver for selling a very small amount of pot on someone else's territory and I don't think that was ever solved.

there is a likelihood that a competitor of DG tipped off the cops to his tiny insignificant lab and then he departed. meth is massive in the lower mainland and I'm sure it was likely he was connected to set up or help set up facilities while on the lam.

 

[stan laurel]

maybe he has. maybe it was his partner that I.D'd the truck before the public were shown it.

you know what's funny and completely unrelated to the quote (too lazy to make a new post, sorry),, I sleuthed "m Hartley" which brought me to a phone number in lethbridge, no big deal, so then I sleuthed the number which brought me to a soil testing company (legit) but later sleuthing did not place an m Hartley with the company.

DG as MH soil tested with cantest

 

[otto]

He would just need to know one person to sell it to in bulk. It's just like any other manufacturing. He could have even been approached by someone that knew he was a chemist and asked him or hired him to make meth. Then he was paid for his services and the guy who paid him broke it up into medium sized baggies and sold it to 10 people and those 10 people broke it up into 50 small baggies and sold it to a bunch of drug addicts in the bars and on the streets.

The meth charge was from 22 years ago. It doesn't seem like there are any meth charges or associations today.

 

[news.talk]

maybe he has. maybe it was his partner that I.D'd the truck before the public were shown it.

you know what's funny and completely unrelated to the quote (too lazy to make a new post, sorry),, I sleuthed "m Hartley" which brought me to a phone number in lethbridge, no big deal, so then I sleuthed the number which brought me to a soil testing company (legit) but later sleuthing did not place an m Hartley with the company.

Or maybe, it was as simple as a member of the Liknes/O'Brien/Garland family that identified it? I am certain his own sister would have been able to ID it quickly.

It has always been my experience, and that of members of my family that are in LE - That, the answer is usually the one that you can connect with the straightest line.

 

[otto]

We know Russell Williams and Bernardo went to school together.

Didn't they attend the same university and have nothing to do with each other? They are convicted murderers, not the family of the murderers. Books about them probably describe their families. Perhaps someone will write a book about this case and research the families of the accused and victims more thoroughly.