Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[Krystine]

I think you're very right and I'm not certain that everything was for sale. If they were moving to a small house or condo they might only need their bedroom suite but likely had several in the house. Maybe just a small dining area in the new house. They lived in the house for a long time .... gosh, if I downsized I would need to sell off a lot of duplicates but would keep what was essential to move on.

The furniture could have been sold throughout the week, since they were advertised on Kijiji. We have no way of knowing how much was sold that day, and what was sold beforehand.
Things like used mattresses, IMO would not sell easily in an affluent city like Calgary, so I am assuming the bedroom furniture might have remained in the home. They were asking a lot for the older sofas, IMO, and again, doubt the people of Calgary would be lining up to buy someone else's upholstered furniture.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I suspect that if the accused was up close and personal with Alvin Liknes, where the only weapon was a rag, Alvin would have had the upper hand.

Thinking if it was a situation where the toxin soaked rag and weapon were used in unison otto. But it is all so inconceivable how anyone could do this without injury to themselves or noise. Very confusing sadly.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

The furniture could have been sold throughout the week, since they were advertised on Kijiji. We have no way of knowing how much was sold that day, and what was sold beforehand.
Things like used mattresses, IMO would not sell easily in an affluent city like Calgary, so I am assuming the bedroom furniture might have remained in the home. They were asking a lot for the older sofas, IMO, and again, doubt the people of Calgary would be lining up to buy someone else's upholstered furniture.

I concur that the prices for the kijiji items were rather high for the age of the items. As well, for the amount of items listed on kijiji in comparison to what KL said to the neighbor up thread ref selling everything in the home, they did not post many items on kijiji. I suppose they were hoping for traffic and impulse buys or collectors and/or thrift store buyers to scoop up their household items.

 

[bakerlady]

Anyone know why this case is still in the missing section when they have been declared deceased? I have seen several other cases moved over this week and this one still remains here. Just wondering....

Also during the family press conference one statement stood out to me. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...nathan-o-brien-and-his-grandparents-1.2694198

Can I ask another question? Do you feel Nathan is out there and he can hear what you say?

(RO) I think so. Because Nathan wasn't suppose to there. So...
(JO) I know he is out there. That's why.
(RO) He's out there.
(JO) I know he's out there.

So does that mean they are certain this was a very personal attack on KL and AL, implying they DID have a know enemy or perhaps someone DID recently make threats to them? IMO it does.

Could NO be the one person who LE thought left alive?

Could this explain why there are only 2 homicides listed at the Liknes home on the Calgary crime map?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I think you're very right and I'm not certain that everything was for sale. If they were moving to a small house or condo they might only need their bedroom suite but likely had several in the house. Maybe just a small dining area in the new house. They lived in the house for a long time .... gosh, if I downsized I would need to sell off a lot of duplicates but would keep what was essential to move on.

This explains why the family friend has stated that the family needs to put the household items in storage at this time. I would surmise that not a lot was actually sold within the home whether by design or by happenstance it didn't sell as well as they had hoped.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Otto, I see your point. It's quite possible that it was first situated on a double lot, and then the house on one side or the other was subdivided from the original large lot.
If I recall in your drawing, they don't have a huge side yard, on either side.
I think it could have been modified to a split level, with the addition on the garage side, and a few stairs added to connect to the area behind the garage, with a hallway to the garage. I think the side door would be through the garage.
I have seen many older 3 level splits with the bedrooms in the third level down. Early split levels had just a crawlspace and not a full fourth level.
The bedrooms of a 4 level split are always on the highest level to the side or back of the house. Which made me really question the whole split level theory. The kitchen is at the back to the right, because of the large square centre light you can see through the front door.
If it were a 4 level split the roof would be a higher pitch, (slanted) with the highest part, (bedrooms) 6? steps up, the main level would include a bath,kitchen and living area, and the lower level would have one bedroom (sometimes 2) with another bath, all with windows.
The home was not originally a split, but I concede that it has been changed into some form of split. Some agents might call it a 2 storey/split, as sometimes with additions they defy accurate descriptions.
MOO




]

If someone had time to sift through the Glenbow and City of Calgary archives we could probably find out

 

[otto]

Just because everything was for sale does not mean it was actually sold.

IMO it's obvious that the side door was used to avoid detection.

I still don't see why it matters where they were in the home. Wherever it was DG found them and killed them.

I helped at a garage sale a couple of weeks ago where the intention was to get rid of everything that was for sale. In the last hours of the sale, a "free" sign was posted. Everything was gone by late afternoon at the one day sale. People that are leaving the country are usually motivated to get rid of everything, so I can't imagine that there was anything left after a three day sale ... other than things that were of no use or interest to anyone.

Regarding crime scene floorplans, some people are interested in them because they want to visualize how the crime occurred, and others are interested in different aspects of the crime. I like to visualize the scene and time line of the crime, so I'm inclined to create and share maps, floorplans, and 3D models of crime scenes. For example, it may be true that the side door was used to avoid detection. Similarly, the door to the deck could have been used, or a vehicle could have been parked in the alley (next to the quiet park) rather than the front parking pad. Without understanding the layout, there is not obvious reason that the front parking pad was used instead of the back alley.

 

[Crystalina5]

The house is one of the crime scenes, which makes it important. With an approximation of the layout, we can better understand the location of the entrances, where the victims could have been at the time of the attack, why the side entrance was used to remove the victims, and why the victims were unable to escape. Given that the house contents had been liquidated, it's possible that they were camping out in a living room on the lower level - behind the garage. That would be on the same level as the side door.

Regarding the sale of all house contents:

"Neighbour Lindsay Bumanis stopped by the sale several times on Friday afternoon. Just about everything in the residence was for sale, she said. "I chatted with the owners ... the wife was really chatty and friendly, and she said she was selling everything and they were moving to Mexico."

http://www2.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/story.html?id=aa646819-1f2b-49a6-903d-af2255cb57fb

Well said!!!

 

[Sillybilly]

It was not that he drove by that i was meaning. He drove by 2 hours after JO arrived there and still did not know his brother was missing and possibly hurt.

Just to keep the record straight, "2 hours" is incorrect. It was said that CL arrived at the home in the morning some time after LE arrived .. so we don't know if he arrived at 10:30 in the morning or 11:59, or ...

from:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...l-mysteriously-vanished-after-an-estate-sale/

Cliff Liknes said he decided to pay a visit to his brother’s home in southwest Calgary on Monday morning after Alvin didn’t answer his phone.

When Cliff arrived, though, his brother was gone, and police were all over the scene. That’s how he found out.

 

[Mrs.White]

[modsnip] That seems odd to me. [modsnip]

 

[otto]

Otto, I see your point. It's quite possible that it was first situated on a double lot, and then the house on one side or the other was subdivided from the original large lot.
If I recall in your drawing, they don't have a huge side yard, on either side.
I think it could have been modified to a split level, with the addition on the garage side, and a few stairs added to connect to the area behind the garage, with a hallway to the garage. I think the side door would be through the garage.
I have seen many older 3 level splits with the bedrooms in the third level down. Early split levels had just a crawlspace and not a full fourth level.
The bedrooms of a 4 level split are always on the highest level to the side or back of the house. Which made me really question the whole split level theory. The kitchen is at the back to the right, because of the large square centre light you can see through the front door.
If it were a 4 level split the roof would be a higher pitch, (slanted) with the highest part, (bedrooms) 6? steps up, the main level would include a bath,kitchen and living area, and the lower level would have one bedroom (sometimes 2) with another bath, all with windows.
The home was not originally a split, but I concede that it has been changed into some form of split. Some agents might call it a 2 storey/split, as sometimes with additions they defy accurate descriptions.
MOO

I've added a couple of models I made based on the plan and elevation views of the house. They are loose approximations of the floor plan that were made a couple of weeks ago. At some point, I'm going to map the kijiji photos onto the floorplans to figure out where the three sofa sets are located. At this time, I think one is in the main floor living room, one is in the second living room on the same level as the garage, and a third set is in the office.
I have been verified as an Architecture Instructor, so I'm basing my opinion that this house was built as a four level split on that experience.

 

[kaley]

Anyone know why this case is still in the missing section when they have been declared deceased? I have seen several other cases moved over this week and this one still remains here. Just wondering....

Also during the family press conference one statement stood out to me. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...nathan-o-brien-and-his-grandparents-1.2694198



So does that mean they are certain this was a very personal attack on KL and AL, implying they DID have a know enemy or perhaps someone DID recently make threats to them? IMO it does.

Could NO be the one person who LE thought left alive?

Could this explain why there are only 2 homicides listed at the Liknes home on the Calgary crime map?

Yes! This is my thought. I believe NO was taken from the home alive which is why LE asked people to search wells, sheds etc. I think LE assumed DG stashed NO somewhere.
Their hopes of finding him alive dwindled as time went by. IMO

 

[Tealgrove]

My sentiments exactly. I would call the police and then everyone else in the family and I would expect them to all call each other as well. 2 hours is a long time for CL to not know there was a bloody scene in his brother's home.

This is a large, close knit family and not to mention CL lives in Calgary AFAIK. He would be one of the first people I would call.

I don't believe that 2 hours is a long time for CL not to know what's going on at his brother's place. I turn off my ringer on my phone at night and sometimes forget to put it back on thus missing calls and catching up several hours later. He could have been "out and about" and again just not heard the phone. There are lots of reasons why it took two hours for him to find out. I really don't think 2 hours is a lot of time and as soon as her knew he was there.

 

[otto]

If someone had time to sift through the Glenbow and City of Calgary archives we could probably find out

I spent time sifting through city map archives and found a 1955 map of the area. Unfortunately, not all of the maps have been digitized and the house in question is exactly on the edge of one map and not on the other. It is on the far right edge of this map, roughly halfway down. The green space directly below the house is the playground where Nathan spend time on the day of the estate sale.

http://contentdm.ucalgary.ca/cdm4/i...&REC=1&DMROTATE=0&x=940.9099731445312&y=64.25

 

[Tealgrove]

Yes! This is my thought. I believe NO was taken from the home alive which is why LE asked people to search wells, sheds etc. I think LE assumed DG stashed NO somewhere.
Their hopes of finding him alive dwindled as time went by. IMO

IMO I don't think it was "time that went by" that dashed their hopes. I believe it was forensic (DNA) evidence at the Parkhill house that determined that they were ALL dead. To be perfectly honest, I believe wholeheartedly that LE believed that they were dead from the beginning. They held out hope that perhaps NO was being held in the belief that someone wouldn't kill a 5 year old child just because he was there.

When I look back at some of the pictures of JO and RO in the early days, RO could not stop crying and JO was beyond numb. Her eyes were dead. In retrospect, they knew. Their grief was so palpable it actually aches me to look at those early day pictures now. I can't even begin to imagine.

I'm sorry, I don't believe time was the issue. I believe that the crime scene told a very violent and graphic story. I think LE tempered their comments in the off chance that NO had been kidnapped however the evidence told a different truth.

This is all my own opinion.

 

[Mrs.White]

Oops, wasn't sure when I posted if that was crossing the line or not. It must be a fine line because I see comments about other family members that don't get removed? Learning as I go.

Will DG get credit for double time served while he is waiting for trial? I found conflicting articles online as to whether that still happens or not.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Oops, wasn't sure when I posted if that was crossing the line or not. It must be a fine line because I see comments about other family members that don't get removed? Learning as I go.

Will DG get credit for double time served while he is waiting for trial? I found conflicting articles online as to whether that still happens or not.

Comments about family members that appear negative will usually be deleted. I did see the post though and just wanted to say that it's easy to judge what you would or wouldn't do while your parents are missing (still missing at that point.) After my husband died I realized that the sad thing is that life still goes on .... I had friends take me out in the weeks after and it was nice to pretend sometimes that life was normal.

 

[otto]

This is the same image enlarged

 

[bakerlady]

If I was bankrupt and unemployed I would not purchase 2 homes. That reminds me of people who live in public housing and drive a BMW.

A home in Edmonton and one in Mazatlan could easily be at the very least $300,000. By my calculations it would be more like $600,000.

IMO AL was part of some secret business ventures.

 

[otto]

Oops, wasn't sure when I posted if that was crossing the line or not. It must be a fine line because I see comments about other family members that don't get removed? Learning as I go.

Will DG get credit for double time served while he is waiting for trial? I found conflicting articles online as to whether that still happens or not.

That point is currently being debated. Pre-trial jail time used to be 2 for 1 ... one day in jail counted as two off the sentence.

Apr 11 2014
"The Criminal Code allowed sentence credits of 2-to-1 for each day in pre-trial custody, sometimes even rising to 3-to-1 in exceptional circumstances.

But the federal Conservatives argued the justice system had become too soft on criminals at the expense of victims. They knocked the credit down to a day-for-a-day, or 1-to-1. The maximum credit allowed would be only 1.5 days credit for a day served pre-sentence.

In a unanimous 7-0 decision, the high court Friday agreed the law sets out a new starting point, that 1:1 is the general rule.

But it said the limit could be exceeded in many cases, rising to the 1.5 -1 maximum, to reflect the fact pre-trial remand time doesn’t count toward parole or early release eligibility.
...
The court left open for another day the issue of whether the law might be challenged on Charter grounds as unconstitutionally harsh."

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...t_restores_credit_for_pretrial_jail_time.html