Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[PonderingNS]

Was it verified that AL was seen alive on Sunday ? I cant remember what the news stories said about him being in the garage watching NO play across the street in the park was that Sunday or Sat ?
Thx

 

[kaley]

It was Sunday he was seen watching NO as he played at the park. I'll look for the link.

 

[PonderingNS]

Do you mean that DG was revenging others (not only himself) who had been creditors of AL in the past? This doesn't make sense given his history of various cheating/fraudulent behaviours towards others which imply that, first, he doesn't feel morally accountable to others and second, that he himself knows a few means to 'sail into the sunset' too, so why begrudge someone who he thinks is doing this (and why not just do the same himself). If the debt could be linked specifically from DG to AL then this would make more sense. All just IMO.

Regarding motive- apparently a family member stated the grudge that may link DG to the murders is - "
The grudge that may, according to family members, link Douglas Garland to the alleged murders of a Calgary couple and their grandson was over nothing more tangible than recognition.

Murder victim Alvin Liknes was a businessman and inventor who had filed several patents since the mid-‘70s. His most recent inventions focused on ways to prolong the life of natural gas and oil wells by removing water.

According to a relative of Mr. Liknes, Mr. Garland altered one of the patents and believed he should have been included as one of the inventors. Mr. Liknes paid for the work, but would not give Mr. Garland credit for the invention, said the family member, who described the dispute as “petty.”

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/tag/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/18/nathan-obriens-grandfather-had-petty-dispute-with-douglas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says&pubdate=2014-08-03&t=alvin-liknes

 

[otto]

No kidding...that seems to be the expectation of a lot people. Douglas Garland is innocent until proven guilty and not before. There have been many cases that have been built up against people out of circumstantial evidence and an innocent party tried and convicted, only 25 years later to be released and told ... "Oops...our mistake...sorry dude". Here's some money for your troubles...meanwile he's spent 25 years in prison for a crime he did not commit. I'm sorry, but if LE make a mistake or want to save face by "bringing in a killer"...sometimes "Oops" and "our apologies for causing you infixable damage and we're sorry are just not enough, Sometimes...there isn't anything that could possibly be given or done for someone who has been wrongly convicted. I think we can wiat for the trial to find out what evidence do the LE reqlly have. Something isn't sitting right with me about the whole thing. Something is definitely very strange with the entire incident.\

What isn't sitting right?

 

[otto]

I couldn't agree more. Something very 'off' with this to me also. I think there is way more to this than DG and I'm still wondering if 'someone' close to AL/kl set things up so that DG would appear to be the likely perp, due to his criminal history and previous negative dealings w/ AL. It's possible someone or more than one "used" DG in a very minor role, a role he had no idea would lead to any of this. Was that really DG driving his green F150 around the L home?...or someone else?........or did someone offer him money to be a look-out but having told DG a lie, that they were merely going to confront AL, maybe 'rough him up'..and DG had no idea that murder was the plan? I just don't believe that DG was the mastermind here, I can't help but feel that he was set up as a convenient patsy, IMO.

The man that has been arrested has a criminal history spanning more than 20 years. He has a long history of mental health concerns. There was conflict between Alvin Liknes and the accused. The vehicle belonging to the accused was seen near the crime scene on the night of the murders. There are two crime scenes for these murders: the Parkhill home belonging to the grandparents, and the Airdrie acreage where the accused lived. There is nothing to suggest that someone else was involved in the murders. That is, police are not looking for a second vehicle. There is not a third crime scene.

Why would we want to imagine that there is another person behind the murders even though there is absolutely nothing to suggest that?

 

[Krystine]

The man that has been arrested has a criminal history spanning more than 20 years. He has a long history of mental health concerns. There was conflict between Alvin Liknes and the accused. The vehicle belonging to the accused was seen near the crime scene on the night of the murders. There are two crime scenes for these murders: the Parkhill home belonging to the grandparents, and the Airdrie acreage where the accused lived. There is nothing to suggest that someone else was involved in the murders. That is, police are not looking for a second vehicle. There is not a third crime scene.

Why would we want to imagine that there is another person behind the murders even though there is absolutely nothing to suggest that?

I have been following from the beginning, don't feel I need to be enlightened.
Not arguing this with you otto, and I don't "want to imagine" anything...
I don't think any one person on here has the "patent" for intuition, wisdom and life experience!

 

[otto]

Yes, and yes! I've always thought that was a good possibility. We have painted a picture of DG here based on what we have been spoon fed by media past and present. We have decided he is a heartless psychopath, an arrogant mastermind, but we don't, can't know, who he really is at this point.
I agree that he has not been pre-occupied with pastry-making out there on the farm since his release from prison, and that his circle of friends are likely not the type that would talk to the media about his character. But it remains to be seen whether DG alone was responsible for this triple murder, or whether he was just the guy out in front (the patsy).

I think that the information we have is based on press conferences with the Chief of police, or other persons employed in the police service. The media has not been spoon feeding anyone anything. They have broadcast the press conferences so that the public can draw their own conclusions. The media has also summarized what they heard at the conferences for print media. Do you recall where the media published that the accused is a "heartless mastermind"?

We know nothing about friends of the accused. By all accounts, he was a loner that kept to himself. Friends and neighbours of the parents of the accused have said that they had no contact with him.

 

[Krystine]

What isn't sitting right?

The fact that DG's truck circled the neighbourhood several times indicates to me that whoever was in the truck was acting as a lookout or waiting for someone else to finish up inside.
That the bodies were transported from the scene. IMO not a one person 'job' that could be carried out quickly with the perp's truck in the driveway, either front or back. There are teens coming home at all hours, there are night owls, and shift workers in every neighbourhood.
The fact that after an extensive 30 day search, it "seems" that no remains have been found. LE would have no reason not to inform the public, in fact it would be very rare and unusual if remains had been found and no announcement made.

 

[otto]

Regarding motive- apparently a family member stated the grudge that may link DG to the murders is - "
The grudge that may, according to family members, link Douglas Garland to the alleged murders of a Calgary couple and their grandson was over nothing more tangible than recognition.

Murder victim Alvin Liknes was a businessman and inventor who had filed several patents since the mid-‘70s. His most recent inventions focused on ways to prolong the life of natural gas and oil wells by removing water.

According to a relative of Mr. Liknes, Mr. Garland altered one of the patents and believed he should have been included as one of the inventors. Mr. Liknes paid for the work, but would not give Mr. Garland credit for the invention, said the family member, who described the dispute as “petty.”

http://ww2.nationalpost.com/m/wp/tag/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/18/nathan-obriens-grandfather-had-petty-dispute-with-douglas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says&pubdate=2014-08-03&t=alvin-liknes

Someone in the Liknes family stated that Garland had a "petty" grudge over "recognition. That translates to: Garland "altered" a patent for Liknes, he believed that he should have been named as co-inventor, and Liknes did not agree. Per the definition of a co-inventor, if Garland "altered" the patent, then he should be listed as a co-inventor.

 

[Sillybilly]

I have been following from the beginning, don't feel I need to be enlightened.
Not arguing this with you otto, and I don't "want to imagine" anything...
I don't think any one person on here has the "patent" for intuition, wisdom and life experience!

I believe otto, myself and others are respectfully questioning WHY you take the position that something doesn't sit right. Otto gave his reasons as to why he feels DG is the perp. We are respectfully asking why you feel he is not.

ETA: Sorry, I see you have already responded.

 

[Krystine]

I think that the information we have is based on press conferences with the Chief of police, or other persons employed in the police service. The media has not been spoon feeding anyone anything. They have broadcast the press conferences so that the public can draw their own conclusions. The media has also summarized what they heard at the conferences for print media. Do you recall where the media published that the accused is a "heartless mastermind"?

We know nothing about friends of the accused. By all accounts, he was a loner that kept to himself. Friends and neighbours of the parents of the accused have said that they had no contact with him.

As fun and friendly it is to disagree, mince words and split hairs, I'm not biting.

 

[Krystine]

I believe otto, myself and others are respectfully questioning WHY you take the position that something doesn't sit right. Otto gave his reasons as to why he feels DG is the perp. We are respectfully asking why you feel he is not.

Asking me, or Lazedayzee? My thoughts are posted above yours, although the question was directed to LazeeD.

 

[Geonaty]

How do you know that this case is circumstantial only? Maybe blood was found in his truck or on his farm? I think Calgary police is not holding him in just because on the video surveillance evidence --- it is to reply to layzeeDayzee...

 

[kaley]

I respectfully think it's time to close these threads until the August 14 court date. There are too many unknowns and obviously LE cannot tell us more or they would have. There has been some amazing sleuthing. Now however I feel we are grasping at straws. IMOO

 

[otto]

I have been following from the beginning, don't feel I need to be enlightened.
Not arguing this with you otto, and I don't "want to imagine" anything...
I don't think any one person on here has the "patent" for intuition, wisdom and life experience!

If police looked to intuition, wisdom, and life experience, rather than evidence, we'd all be in trouble. I think intuition and experience was what led to the miscarriage of justice for Guy Paul Morin in the 1984 rape and murder of 9 year old Christine Jessop. Fortunately, with the innovations in DNA analysis, those miscarriages of justice appear to be a thing of the past.

 

[otto]

I respectfully think it's time to close these threads until the August 14 court date. There are too many unknowns and obviously LE cannot tell us more or they would have. There has been some amazing sleuthing. Now however I feel we are grasping at straws. IMOO

The next hearing is on August 14, 2014.

 

[Wondergirl]

Can someone please summarize the facts that have come about as a result of the sleuthing, and not from MSM?

 

[sublimemumma]

The fact that DG's truck circled the neighbourhood several times indicates to me that whoever was in the truck was acting as a lookout or waiting for someone else to finish up inside.
That the bodies were transported from the scene. IMO not a one person 'job' that could be carried out quickly with the perp's truck in the driveway, either front or back. There are teens coming home at all hours, there are night owls, and shift workers in every neighbourhood.
The fact that after an extensive 30 day search, it "seems" that no remains have been found. LE would have no reason not to inform the public, in fact it would be very rare and unusual if remains had been found and no announcement made.

We also are unsure as to when the truck was circling the neighbourhood. It easily could of been earlier in the night while he waited for JO to leave... It is good to voice your opinion because at this point we dot have alot of detailed info/evidence released to the public so really all we have is opinions. I do also feel that alot of this case is strange. Mainly by what Info IS being released. I find it VERY strange that we haven't heard much of anything from people who do know DG. I agree that is "off" but I really don't think they could lay the charges of first degree murder without evidence that DG had this planned out in advance.
On another note, I do wonder if they have found proof that they won't find the bodies intact. Maybe releasing that they found evidence (I can't put into words where my thoughts are going... I know it has been mentioned in a few ways) in different spots that different methods were used to try to destroy the bodies. Maybe releasing this info could effect the outcome at court. I do believe the search has come to a halt after they searched the area around propak in Aidrie. Maybe no bodies were found but maybe there was evidence that they would not find the bodies intact. This is all IMO but I don't thi k it is fair to say that the LE just jumped on the first person who they could...

Also the fact that they are looking into possible ties to cold cases in the past must mean they have evidence to make them look that way. The thought has crosse my mind about the debit or credit cards that were found in his possession. I do wonder if this could be a possible link between DG and the case that they are looking into. They must have some kind of info to release the name of one of the cold cases they are specifically looking into.
Anyways... I have been keeping up reading posts but have kept my thoughts to myself as most of the time they end up covered in a later post but I had to say something this time...

 

[Slebby]

In my opinion....

I think it's easy to take the situations we see on tv or in the movies, along with the more sensational crimes and conspiracies that hit the news, and speculate that these things happen all the time. I believe, in reality, crimes are pretty simple most of the time. It's possible that, with all the speculating we have done here, we might be surprised to learn the facts one day, that DG just went to the L's that night because he heard they were having an estate sale, and thought he could somehow get his hands on that cash, and the situation escalated to violence and murder. Who knows?

I am a very practical, critical thinker. While some folks are comfortable positing theories based on intuition or a feeling, I like to look at the facts as we know them and base my "sleuthing" on those facts. I also think we can become frustrated at the seeming lack of progress in a case, that *something* useful must be done, and so we try to do some sleuthing of our own. I think we all just have a different threshold for theories that seem to be based on a lot of reaching, assumptions not grounded in fact, or feeling. I would fall into the category of having a low threshold for that, but others may feel it is productive. I am a questioner, so I will always want to ask "why?" Like why do you think there are other perpetrators, or that DG is a "patsy" (as someone suggested) or why do you think that wedding band found in the river could be AL's, and so on. I'm using these as examples.

But whether your theories are grounded in facts, or based on feeling, intuition, or simple "what if" thinking, I believe anything said is fair game for others with a questioning mind to say "but why do you think that?" Maybe others will see the train of thought, maybe not. I don't think anyone questions others' theories intending to offend, I know I don't. I just like to ask questions when a theory is proposed - why do you think it's a biker gang, why do think DG was still manufacturing drugs, why do you think NO is still alive, etc.

I apologize in advance if anyone feels ever offended when I ask questions. I always try to be diplomatic and keep the peace so the discussions can be fruitful and friendly. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

IMHO

 

[Slebby]

Re: truck circling neighbourhood - maybe DG was waiting for the lights to go out in the Al's home, and also perhaps the neighbours' home in order to avoid being witnessed?