Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[news.talk]

What does BBM mean?

There are some very creative criminal investigations on TV Otto! They are intriguing and many of them are a stroke of genius. Have you ever spoken with an undercover officer? My gosh they come up with some really creative things!
Thank you for relaying the facts Otto...I can see they are very black and white and final!
I'm not trying to sway your point of view, I'm not interested in swaying anyone's point of view, nor am I interested or attached to being right. What is important to me is that justice is served and that whomever is convicted of this crime has a fair trial and that all the bases have been covered without a shadow of a doubt.
I would like to know what really happened that night, just like everyone else and I would like to know where these 3 people are so that their families can have closure in this situation.
It will be a very interesting trial.

BBM = Bolded By Me

This isn't TV. This is real life.

 

[goodasgold]

ATTN EVERYONE!

Today was a rough day with everyone on this site. Emotions run high when people are waiting for answers they desperately want. Whether or not you believe the victims are dead or alive, the crime scene was staged or real, DG destroyed the bodies or threw them in a lake or buried them, different suspicions of why LE are in Mexico, or whether or not there was an accomplice.....etc......we all want the same outcome and we are all on this site to find this outcome or somehow help. We all want justice for these families. We all want these three victims found to bring peace for these families. We all want to know more of what happened this horrific night and justice for that little boy. We all want these victims reunited with their family, dead or alive, so they can have a proper goodbye. We all feel the LE is doing a great job with this case, no matter what direction they are going with this investigation.

 

[news.talk]

ATTN EVERYONE!

Today was a rough day with everyone on this site. Emotions run high when people are waiting for answers they desperately want. Whether or not you believe the victims are dead or alive, the crime scene was staged or real, DG destroyed the bodies or through them in a lake or buried them, different suspicions of why LE are in Mexico, or whether or not there was an accomplice.....etc......we all want the same outcome and we are all on this site to find this outcome or somehow help. We all want justice for these families. We all want these three victims found to bring peace for these families. We all want to know more of what happened this horrific night and justice for that little boy. We all want these victims reunited with their family, dead or alive, so they can have a proper goodbye. We all feel the LE is doing a great job with this case, no matter what direction they are going with this investigation.

I guess I'm not seeing "emotions running high" but rather holding opinions and theories to a standard necessary for fact finding. [modsnip]

 

[ResearchQuest]

ATTN EVERYONE!

Today was a rough day with everyone on this site. Emotions run high when people are waiting for answers they desperately want. Whether or not you believe the victims are dead or alive, the crime scene was staged or real, DG destroyed the bodies or threw them in a lake or buried them, different suspicions of why LE are in Mexico, or whether or not there was an accomplice.....etc......we all want the same outcome and we are all on this site to find this outcome or somehow help. We all want justice for these families. We all want these three victims found to bring peace for these families. We all want to know more of what happened this horrific night and justice for that little boy. We all want these victims reunited with their family, dead or alive, so they can have a proper goodbye. We all feel the LE is doing a great job with this case, no matter what direction they are going with this investigation.

I am not sure what this is all about. I've only been here an hour or so, but did go through today's posts. I didn't feel too emotional, but I did wish we could get back to sleuthing. I would really like that a lot.

 

[goodasgold]

I guess I'm not seeing "emotions running high" but rather holding opinions and theories to a standard necessary for fact finding. [modsnip]

Which is understandable to want info and facts to support comments. [modsnip]

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I posted a link earlier regarding a potentially wrongfully accused person suing LE after the charges against him were stayed. The risk is huge, especially in this case, if they were to willy nilly charge someone with 3 counts of murder, and have it later proven that it was a ploy to smoke someone else out. All involved could possibly face criminal charges themselves for doing so.

The Political realm and the Legal realm have completely different levels and mechanisms of accountability. It doesn't work to compare some inappropriate spending to charging someone falsely with 3 counts of murder.

Maybe I have seen one too many episodes of 48 hours...and I realize it is in the U.S. However, there was an episode where a lady hired someone to kill her husband...an undercover officer was placed as the "hitman" and given the directions. He played the role and went through with the plans of the wife to kill the husband, only he didn't kill the husband of course. The police actually carried on with the investigation as if he had been killed...forensic investigation, medical examiner, calling the wife, consoling her...brought her down to the jail to 'clear up some details' ... put her in a room ... then arrested her for commissioning a murder (or something like that)...then they brought the husband out...she had been told he had been killed.
That is not a made-for-tv show...it is real life...yes, it was in the U.S. and not in Canada, but why is it impossible that this method could be used here?
Anyway, bottomline is it doesn't matter, it is what it is. If DG killed them then I'm devastated about it, and I hope he gets his fair trial and the conviction/sentence he deserves or the help he needs. If he didn't do it and there's something else going on, then I hope that is uncovered. If there's someone else involved, then I hope they're apprehended as well and he doesn't take the fall for all of it. All I am interested in is Truth and Fairness. For everyone concerned. Whatever it takes to get it, is fine IMO.

 

[ResearchQuest]

I did use Google translate to select a few key phrases, and searched in Spanish for any news of the Canadian police in Mazatlan but came up with nothing. So maybe it's not news down there.

But this MSM article is sadly ironic, isn't it?

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Aff...co+where+dangers+also+wait/9229536/story.html

 

[ResearchQuest]

There is an English language newspaper in Mazatlan, though.

http://mazmessenger.com/

 

[Krystine]

This is the first WS case I have followed, unlike a lot of sleuthers who have been on here for years.
I know I have shared my scepticism about one person being able to 'accomplish' the act of murdering 3 people in a quiet residential neighbourhood in mid summer, removing the bodies from the scene and avoiding discovery of the remains. It is perhaps the biggest and farthest reaching investigation the province has seen for a long time, with hundreds of LE personnel involved.
Is anyone aware of other multiple murders where the bodies were removed?
We know that one person murdered 5 others at a grad party in April, using the element of surprise, but that individual did not have the task of removing the bodies,... and he was found within hours.
If anyone that follows these tragic stories, care to humour me and shed some light on the hows and whys?

 

[news.talk]

Maybe I have seen one too many episodes of 48 hours...and I realize it is in the U.S. However, there was an episode where a lady hired someone to kill her husband...an undercover officer was placed as the "hitman" and given the directions. He played the role and went through with the plans of the wife to kill the husband, only he didn't kill the husband of course. The police actually carried on with the investigation as if he had been killed...forensic investigation, medical examiner, calling the wife, consoling her...brought her down to the jail to 'clear up some details' ... put her in a room ... then arrested her for commissioning a murder (or something like that)...then they brought the husband out...she had been told he had been killed.
That is not a made-for-tv show...it is real life...yes, it was in the U.S. and not in Canada, but why is it impossible that this method could be used here?
Anyway, bottomline is it doesn't matter, it is what it is. If DG killed them then I'm devastated about it, and I hope he gets his fair trial and the conviction/sentence he deserves or the help he needs. If he didn't do it and there's something else going on, then I hope that is uncovered. If there's someone else involved, then I hope they're apprehended as well and he doesn't take the fall for all of it. All I am interested in is Truth and Fairness. For everyone concerned. Whatever it takes to get it, is fine IMO.

I can assure you that the CPS have very strict standards and protocol. The reason 'those' cases are featured is because they are sensationalistic and very rare. This is not the norm and unless you can cite a case of CPS officers engaging in lascivious deception, then I am going to trust the reputation that holds them in such high esteem.

 

[goodasgold]

Maybe I have seen one too many episodes of 48 hours...and I realize it is in the U.S. However, there was an episode where a lady hired someone to kill her husband...an undercover officer was placed as the "hitman" and given the directions. He played the role and went through with the plans of the wife to kill the husband, only he didn't kill the husband of course. The police actually carried on with the investigation as if he had been killed...forensic investigation, medical examiner, calling the wife, consoling her...brought her down to the jail to 'clear up some details' ... put her in a room ... then arrested her for commissioning a murder (or something like that)...then they brought the husband out...she had been told he had been killed.
That is not a made-for-tv show...it is real life...yes, it was in the U.S. and not in Canada, but why is it impossible that this method could be used here?
Anyway, bottomline is it doesn't matter, it is what it is. If DG killed them then I'm devastated about it, and I hope he gets his fair trial and the conviction/sentence he deserves or the help he needs. If he didn't do it and there's something else going on, then I hope that is uncovered. If there's someone else involved, then I hope they're apprehended as well and he doesn't take the fall for all of it. All I am interested in is Truth and Fairness. For everyone concerned. Whatever it takes to get it, is fine IMO.

I seen this exact same one. Even after knowing the cop was undercover and her husband was alive she still was denying it. He even felt bad for her even though she tried to kill him. I do know the States are a bit different in LE but not sure if there would be a difference with undercover policies and procedures.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I seen this exact same one. Even after knowing the cop was undercover and her husband was alive she still was denying it. He even felt bad for her even though she tried to kill him. I do know the States are a bit different in LE but not sure if there would be a difference with undercover policies and procedures.

I thought that was the best plan ever! Thank goodness they caught wind of it and were able to put an undercover officer in as the hitman...and yes...she still kept denying it, even when she was caught red-handed.

 

[Krystine]

We know that Mr. Big stings occur, wherein the cell mate or criminally connected new buddy promises the accused a high paying job if he admits to committing murders/ other criminal activity and provides details.
There was one such incident in Edmonton, I think in the 90's, where this occurred and LE was subsequently sued in civil court.
Three people were found dead in a warehouse near Sherwood Park,... I was living there at the time. At first LE thought the deceased were electrocuted and missed that there were gun shot wounds.
That is the only type of sting activity I am aware of.
I'll see if I can find the info, but I believe it was pre-internet.

 

[julydarling]

I keep trying to think about the finance aspect of a possible motive. I think its safe to say that DG didn't have a ton of cash. He lived with his parents and drove an old truck which has been noted as a 'piece of crap'.
This leads me to believe that the motive isn't related to bad investments/advice.
As ive stated before, I have a hard time seeing DG as an 'avenger'. By this I mean to commit such a crime on behalf of someone else.
Which leaves us back at the patent. But really...? This occurred 7 years ago IIRC. So what the heck happened recently? I just went through the patent database, and AL filed 5 different patterns, ranging back from the 70s to 2010. I can't find anything that matches the 7 year timeline one of his sons gave. Am I missing something?

 

[nursebeeme]

​This thread is closed for moderator review

 

[nursebeeme]

The back and forth needs to stop now.

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While the thread is closed please review the above

 

[Coldpizza]

The thread is now open for discussion.

If you are going to post something as fact you must provide an MSM link to back it up.

If it's your opinion then say so.

The rules have been posted multiple times and can be found on the first page.

Time outs will be forthcoming if the rules are not followed.

Thank you

 

[bornofposeidon]

This is the first WS case I have followed, unlike a lot of sleuthers who have been on here for years.
I know I have shared my scepticism about one person being able to 'accomplish' the act of murdering 3 people in a quiet residential neighbourhood in mid summer, removing the bodies from the scene and avoiding discovery of the remains. It is perhaps the biggest and farthest reaching investigation the province has seen for a long time, with hundreds of LE personnel involved.
Is anyone aware of other multiple murders where the bodies were removed?
We know that one person murdered 5 others at a grad party in April, using the element of surprise, but that individual did not have the task of removing the bodies,... and he was found within hours.
If anyone that follows these tragic stories, care to humour me and shed some light on the hows and whys?

Just kind of jumping off your post here with the part I have bolded.

It is the missing bodies along with the messy crime scene that make me think DG murdered all 3 victims by himself.

I think the initial plan was to remove the bodies and all evidence from the house in an attempt to make it look like AL and KL just up and left; fleeing to Mexico perhaps. But DG simply ran out of time for removal of the evidence from inside the house.

If there had been an accomplice(s), I think this would have been better planned with one or more people working on cleaning evidence and one or more people working on disposing the bodies. There wouldn't have been much of a crime scene to find if DG was not working alone, IMO.

 

[sublimemumma]

Just kind of jumping off your post here with the part I have bolded.

It is the missing bodies along with the messy crime scene that make me think DG murdered all 3 victims by himself.

I think the initial plan was to remove the bodies and all evidence from the house in an attempt to make it look like AL and KL just up and left; fleeing to Mexico perhaps. But DG simply ran out of time for removal of the evidence from inside the house.

If there had been an accomplice(s), I think this would have been better planned with one or more people working on cleaning evidence and one or more people working on disposing the bodies. There wouldn't have been much of a crime scene to find if DG was not working alone, IMO.

I like the one theory about how he thought he had out smarted them enough with the disposal of the bodies and didn't think the evidence in the house didn't matter so much. Maybe he was extra careful to not leave any evidence of himself in the house and wasn't thinking his truck would be caught on video. I am also lead to believe that with knowing the L's were leaving for Mexico right away for an unknown amount of time, he could of thought it might of been a while before anyone even realized they were gone. I really wonder if it wasn't for NO, how long he would of had before this crime was stumbled upon. Maybe he thought he had longer to dispose of more evidence... He seems to of been busy disposing of evidence and the bodies in the immediate days after and has done a good job of disposing the bodies. I just wonder what else he would of done if he wasn't found out so soon...

 

[loveisthemovement]

Every time I log on and see Nathan's name at the top of the Missing forum, I wonder how his parents and siblings are coping. How do you keep going? How does regular life keep moving without closure?

Keeping them in my thoughts and prayers. :candle: