Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #13

[winnnancy]

Why would courthouses be designed with courtrooms to accommodate the public, and then two additional rooms for all the people (supporting victim or accused) that want to be accommodated but who, for whatever reason, don't want to sit in a courtroom? That doesn't make any sense to me. If there was that much extra space in the courthouse, I'm sure the prosecutor's offices would be bigger and each would have a room with a view.

I'm just guessing but I would think that in the case of a sexual assault( especially in the case of a child) allowances might be made. I don't know how a young victim would provide testimony, I believe there are alternatives. The courtroom may not be the best place for their family and so on ...

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Gah. I've been away for a few days and had a LOT to catch up on.

I do not think that the victims, at least both of them, were killed in bed or ambushed while sleeping. If they had been, the bed/mattress would have shown signs of blood. Does anyone remember that creepy neighbour guy who went into the house when the movers were there? He said something about "a lot of cleaning on the wall". Unless he wandered through the whole house, I think its safe to say he saw this in a common area. JMO.

Most people/families who deal with a loved one who's been the victim of a violent crime in their home, will hire clean-up companies who are specially trained in bio-hazard clean-ups......safely wrapping and removing mattresses with body fluids and safely removing them from the home, removing sections of carpeting or flooring, etc, that's covered in blood/body fluids, etc.........and these items are then taking to a special bio-hazard facility where they're disposed of in accordance with proper guidelines (public health/safety pertaining to bio-hazards). So IMO, when the man was moving items out of the home and he rudely offered to allow the nosy neighbor to look around inside the house, there wouldn't have been blood or other body fluids left on remaining items (like mattresses, carpets, etc). These companies not only do crime scene clean-ups but also clean-ups of homes in which someone passed unexpectedly/due to natural causes.

 

[Cherchri]

A mystery no more.... Sadly this Alberta family was apparently murdered by their son/brother and his associate http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/08/1...ate-charged-in-murder-of-three-family-members
LE located key evidence in a lake just recently..so they never stopped investigating or searching.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

DG may want to plead not guilty, however, the lawyer may be the one postponing the plea to see what evidence they have on DG. Whether or not DG is innocent the lawyer is not going to take his word for it. He will want the evidence in order to discuss with DG the proper plea they should go with. JMO

The lawyer may want to move for dismissal, depending on the evidence. Most lawyers, IMO, with experience, won't shoot off their mouths without being able to back it up...they don't disclose without the facts either, just in case. I'm sure DG's lawyer knows what's going on, knows what route they're taking but this is a waiting game, and he's just playing it. Why would he give the prosecution any indication before he has to as to what they're pleaing...they will have to wait until the court date to find it out. Makes no difference what KR says about a plea at this point...innocent/guilty/or plea bargain...IMO law is hugely about strategy as well as justice...he's not tipping his hat. Just jumping through the hoops...nothing would change for DG at this point if KR gives an answer to that question or not. It doesn't mean DG is guilty, or innocent, or mentally incapacitated. JMO

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Most people/families who deal with a loved one who's been the victim of a violent crime in their home, will hire clean-up companies who are specially trained in bio-hazard clean-ups......safely wrapping and removing mattresses with body fluids and safely removing them from the home, removing sections of carpeting or flooring, etc, that's covered in blood/body fluids, etc.........and these items are then taking to a special bio-hazard facility where they're disposed of in accordance with proper guidelines (public health/safety pertaining to bio-hazards). So IMO, when the man was moving items out of the home and he rudely offered to allow the nosy neighbor to look around inside the house, there wouldn't have been blood or other body fluids left on remaining items (like mattresses, carpets, etc). These companies not only do crime scene clean-ups but also clean-ups of homes in which someone passed unexpectedly/due to natural causes.

Very interesting point. Has anyone heard if there was a clean-up company at the Liknes home after the crime scene was closed?
I know of instances where this was done in suicides as well, I had forgotten about that.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Take a look at this corporate listing document and ctrl. F Rockyview Motorsports. The head office is listed as
Suite 509, 10333 Southport Road SW, Calgary AB T2W 3X6. I have not searched.. On an Ipad today.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/gazette/2013/pdf/04_Feb28_Registrar.pdf

P F is the GM

Thank you, nothing came up for them in the search.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Take a look at this corporate listing document and ctrl. F Rockyview Motorsports. The head office is listed as
Suite 509, 10333 Southport Road SW, Calgary AB T2W 3X6. I have not searched.. On an Ipad today.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/gazette/2013/pdf/04_Feb28_Registrar.pdf

P F is the GM

Could not locate Rockyview Motorsports. Pls advise.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Very interesting point. Has anyone heard if there was a clean-up company at the Liknes home after the crime scene was closed?
I know of instances where this was done in suicides as well, I had forgotten about that.

Yes there was. It was posted up thread. I will try and locate for you.

 

[winnnancy]

The lawyer may want to move for dismissal, depending on the evidence. Most lawyers, IMO, with experience, won't shoot off their mouths without being able to back it up...they don't disclose without the facts either, just in case. I'm sure DG's lawyer knows what's going on, knows what route they're taking but this is a waiting game, and he's just playing it. Why would he give the prosecution any indication before he has to as to what they're pleaing...they will have to wait until the court date to find it out. Makes no difference what KR says about a plea at this point...innocent/guilty/or plea bargain...IMO law is hugely about strategy as well as justice...he's not tipping his hat. Just jumping through the hoops...nothing would change for DG at this point if KR gives an answer to that question or not. It doesn't mean DG is guilty, or innocent, or mentally incapacitated. JMO

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/media/sith_colloquium_asimow_michael.pdf
Interesting article law/ethics

 

[otto]

We haven't been told that there was no evidence the victims were at the acreage. It's highly likely there is something, since LE couldn't possibly think a truck picture, and some blood at the home is proof enough for charges. There also has to be evidence of 3 individual deaths, which means something was left behind somewhere that a human cannot reasonably live without.

Bone can also simply be ground down with something as basic as a bench grinder if you really wanted to. If I were mechanically inclined, or owned a machinery company, I might build something myself, during the planning phase, to pulverize the burned remains to dust.

If it was DG, he, would have not expected to be pictured, and discovered so quickly. We can assume making the bodies disappear was part of the plan, but perhaps the plan included having more time to do it. Once the deed is done, especially with an unexpected 3rd victim, then ad-libbing will create mistakes and oversights.

If the bodies were ground up, liquefied and whatever else on the Airdrie property, I'm sure that police would have found some evidence. They have not found any evidence of the bodies on the Airdrie acreage.

"Despite a massive search of multiple areas, including the Airdrie-area farm of Garland’s parents, no bodies have been discovered."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/08/1...gary-courtroom-today-on-liknes-obrien-murders

 

[otto]

I'm just guessing but I would think that in the case of a sexual assault( especially in the case of a child) allowances might be made. I don't know how a young victim would provide testimony, I believe there are alternatives. The courtroom may not be the best place for their family and so on ...

Every victim and their family is suffering. No one should be considered to be suffering more than the other, therefore it seems likely that all victims are treated the same. Trials are held in the courtroom. Trials are open to the public and the family of victims are welcome to attend.

 

[otto]

The company Servpro was at the Parkhill house doing the crime scene cleanup a couple of weeks after the murders.

http://qmiphotos.photoshelter.com/image/I00000LRfl38Xqzc

 

[winnnancy]

Every victim and their family is suffering. No one should be considered to be suffering more than the other, therefore it seems likely that all victims are treated the same. Trials are held in the courtroom. Trials are open to the public and the family of victims are welcome to attend.

I'm sorry Otto, I would tend to disagree , MOO of course.
As am example: a young teen is savagely raped, assaulted and left for dead.
The parents are horrified, and angry.
The whole family is victimized however the young girl lived the pain, tithe violation and potentially has a fear of facing her attacker.
The parents did not experience the attack.
Experience tends to be subjective...
There is a difference in terms of the suffering of the person that experienced a crime first hand and that of the secondary victims I would thing .
I will proceed to look it up and edit asap

 

[otto]

Let's suppose that parents of a murdered five year old want a private room for viewing the trial. The parents of the 19 year old murdered at the first mass murder could then request their own private viewing room. Next, the parents of the other four victims of the first mass murder want their own viewing room, and the family of the accused wants one too. Now the courts have to find six empty rooms and set up equipment for viewing the trial in privacy. Every family should then be given those same privileges.

What space will be given up to accommodate private rooms for the public to attend trials?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

If the bodies were ground up, liquefied and whatever else on the Airdrie property, I'm sure that police would have found some evidence. They have not found any evidence of the bodies on the Airdrie acreage.

"Despite a massive search of multiple areas, including the Airdrie-area farm of Garland’s parents, no bodies have been discovered."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/08/1...gary-courtroom-today-on-liknes-obrien-murders

Again... you are taking it far too literally. No bodies have been found. How do they know anyone is deceased then?

Simply because an intact, identifiable large portion of a body has not been discovered, does not mean that DNA from some part has not been found at the home, in the truck, or at the acreage.

No bodies were found in the truck or at the home either. This has to be the worst put together case in history if all they have is a picture of a truck as evidence.

What were the crime scene clean up crew cleaning up then since no bodies were found at the home?

 

[winnnancy]

Every victim and their family is suffering. No one should be considered to be suffering more than the other, therefore it seems likely that all victims are treated the same. Trials are held in the courtroom. Trials are open to the public and the family of victims are welcome to attend.

There have been many victims identified in this tragedy. " no one should be considered to be suffering more than the other?"
IMO the individual impact of the crime to each Mrs. O and Mrs. G are very different.
Are you suggesting that neither is suffering more than the other?

 

[Power of Two]

I don't really understand why there would be private rooms for people that want to follow the case, but who do not want to sit in the courtroom. That isn't how trials have been conducted in the past. Maybe it's the new thing of the future, but for what reason?[/QUOTE]

A somewhat different scenario is that many churches and funeral homes have a segregated side room for families who do not wish to sit with or been seen by the the general attendees. They can see and hear the services without the public exposure and scrutiny. I like the idea of that option.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Let's suppose that parents of a murdered five year old want a private room for viewing the trial. The parents of the 19 year old murdered at the first mass murder could then request their own private viewing room. Next, the parents of the other four victims of the first mass murder want their own viewing room, and the family of the accused wants one too. Now the courts have to find six empty rooms and set up equipment for viewing the trial in privacy. Every family should then be given those same privileges.

What space will be given up to accommodate private rooms for the public to attend trials?

I don't think there is any law requiring separate viewing rooms, or a law requiring if they do it for one, then they have to do it for all. Rightfully so, it seems to be on a case by case, circumstances dictate the action, basis.

No one is going to begrudge the court staff if they arrange for the parents of a murdered child, in a high profile case with lots of media, and possible animosity between family members, to sit in another room.

 

[LoisLane]

Could not locate Rockyview Motorsports. Pls advise.

The document came up when I was searching the company, I do not have the capability right now to verify if the company is listed. If you can't find anything then please ignore it.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

http://www.rockyview.ca/Portals/0/F.../MSDP-Proposed-Rockyview-Motorsports-Park.pdf

This shows some very good maps of the area.