Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[LoriMcA]

Okay so a 'not serious' moment...

I come and skim most days now....

I come to read the last 2 pages today and what do I find? Sausage King of Chicago *immediately thought of Ferris Bueller*...gingerbread house in the woods *Hansel & Gretel*...Slaughterhouse *Kurt Vonnegut* and Stephen King dead pit *Dead Zone*...I know it is a mishmash of nothing but I immediately started laughing. Which shows where my mind goes...but sometimes laughing is better than crying.

Now, seriously....

I want them found....we all do.

We all know that in a couple of months *I hate to think of it* harvest will be over....winter will be setting in....

Wouldn't it be wonderful if he just said...guilty! in Sept & gave some closure with their location.....Oh if only.

Sorry...off the track here but I don't have much to add at this point...we've all hashed and rehashed...till the cows come home....& you know...we have all come up with so many great possibilities and ideas ...sometimes we've been on the case before the papers even knew what was what...*isn't social media wonderful?*

I'm just hoping for the family right now that some of this nightmare can end.

ETA: JMOO & just needed to say...

 

[Cherchri]

:laughcry:

Okay so a 'not serious' moment...

I come and skim most days now....

I come to read the last 2 pages today and what do I find? Sausage King of Chicago *immediately thought of Ferris Bueller*...gingerbread house in the woods *Hansel & Gretel*...Slaughterhouse *Kurt Vonnegut* and Stephen King dead pit *Dead Zone*...I know it is a mishmash of nothing but I immediately started laughing. Which shows where my mind goes...but sometimes laughing is better than crying.

Now, seriously....

I want them found....we all do.

We all know that in a couple of months *I hate to think of it* harvest will be over....winter will be setting in....

Wouldn't it be wonderful if he just said...guilty! in Sept & gave some closure with their location.....Oh if only.

Sorry...off the track here but I don't have much to add at this point...we've all hashed and rehashed...till the cows come home....& you know...we have all come up with so many great possibilities and ideas ...sometimes we've been on the case before the papers even knew what was what...*isn't social media wonderful?*

I'm just hoping for the family right now that some of this nightmare can end.

ETA: JMOO & just needed to say...

I don't know if you, or anyone else picked up from my posts that lye destroys DNA! For a "chemist" who wanted to make someone disappear without a trace, lye combined with burning is the most likely method - especially when you consider that lye/sodium hydroxide is cheap and easy to obtain. If anyone were to examine my searches over the past few weeks, I would be hauled off in cuffs! Now that made me laugh :silly: . Sadly, I don't believe the victims will ever be found but like you, I hope the nightmare ends soon.

 

[LoriMcA]

:laughcry:
I don't know if you, or anyone else picked up from my posts that lye destroys DNA! For a "chemist" who wanted to make someone disappear without a trace, lye combined with burning is the most likely method - especially when you consider that lye/sodium hydroxide is cheap and easy to obtain. If anyone were to examine my searches over the past few weeks, I would be hauled off in cuffs! Now that made me laugh :silly: . Sadly, I don't believe the victims will ever be found but like you, I hope the nightmare ends soon.

ITA! My thoughts have went the same route about method...
Oh yes...if they were to investigate my pc & came across my google searches....:waitasec:

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I wonder what the family dynamic was like. I mean, lotsa kids live with their parents, and nowadays it's considered a prudent financial choice and not just things royal families do. but I wonder what it was like in the home? I look at the house as being very sterile, kinda lifeless. did dg live in the main house or an out bldg.? his parents may have loved him, but the tough love may have pushed him too.

"Won't amount to anything eh, watch this!"

maybe, as long as dg stayed at the property he would be afforded a home, so long as he didn't disrupt the family quo.

I also think dg is a claustrophobic busy body, not good when in jail.

lol...what do you mean by this SL? Busy body? Meaning must always be doing something?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I easily dismissed this statement about DG's truck being a "piece of crap" from AL for a few reasons...
I know a few people who drive around the same vehicle that most others make fun of or describe in such a way because they either despise the person, they do not understand the vehicle owners care and frugalness of an older vehicle, or they themselves had problems driving it, possibly when they borrowed it or as a passenger. Amazingly, the truck is still operating and has not been replaced. It must be good for something.
As for not being able to manouever service roads and not being 4WD and having the proper tools to make it thru these roads, I will share my recent personal experience that I am pretty proud of....lol

I recently drove up a soft, muddy, forestry service road (that morning it had rained heavily) for about 15-20km at over 15 percent grade. I drove this in a Honda Odyssey Van with front wheel drive and highway tires. I came into spots where I could no longer move and would back down to a dryer, flat spot and work my way back up, it took me about 30 minutes. The owner of the resort did not think I was going to make it and was ready to tow me in his tow truck.

A Ford F-150 in 2-wheel drive would have no problem making it up the road that I had travelled and I am sure it would do fine in the surrounding areas of Calgary. JMO

From my experience, a 2-wheel drive anything will spin-out pretty much on anything that would be less than perfect road conditions, especially with no weight in the back. IMO, a 2-wheel drive F-150 would at best fishtail up the road if the conditions were slick ... unless it was going really, really slow...which could draw too much attention. I'm with SL...no one would want to take this chance if they were doing something unlawful. JMO

 

[Blue Amethyst]

A lot of farmers now continuous crop and grow a crop every year. Lots of time the traditional summer fallow is now chemfallow where the weeds are sprayed and the soil is not disturbed. The land may have to be re sprayed in the fall so if there is something out there let's hope they will be found.

http://www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/Agriview_may09_6

 

[Tinkerbel1]

congrats, but you knew that the person at the resort would help you if you got in a pickle and you also didn't have the pressure of knowing dead bodies were with you,, and did you have front wheel drive? the 89 didn't. can you imaging mildly getting stuck if you were dumping something unlawfully? one might have a panic attack feeling like a heart attack. not saying it can't be done, but in certain situations one would want to be sure they were leaving without help from a tow truck or even their own winch.

:copcar:I feel exactly like that when I'm dumping some of my own construction garbage in a company's dumpster...I do it like after midnight...and I park and wait to make sure no one is around, and while I'm waiting, I just get more and more anxious. There's no way ever that I'ld be able to dump bodies somewhere. Can you imagine what you would feel like after you dumped them...you probably couldn't just walk away and never think about them again....I would probably go back many times to make sure they were still hidden...DG didn't get caught doing anything like that, did he?...Well we don't think he did anyways (could be that's what he as doing when he was heading back to the acreage when he was released on bail).
IMO that's something a serial killer might do, dump the bodies so that they're found eventually...I don't get that 'serial killer' vibe from DG. I think he would've done something else with them, very permanent, untraceable. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I have no issue with DG or anyone living with parents as an adult. My brother in-law has lived with his parents over the years for extended period of time because he was building a house, renovating another, he was in transition. Also, Mayor Nenshi lives or lived with his mother during the election process and maybe he still does. These people I described are valuable members of society.

DG is troubled, his parents have put up with him for years. I can only imagine the stress he has caused them over the years and I believe they were aware of his violent disposition and know more about him that LE was not able to uncover. Not saying they are concealing valuable information but I do believe they may have turned a blind-eye on a few occasions and may have become immune to his abusive or angry personality. JMO

Yes There are many children that live with their parents as adults. Some are on AISH and can't afford to live on their own, some are otherwise disabled. There are some parents however, that seem to like having that one (1) child around...a lot of families I know have 1 that mom can't let go of, or feels extra-close to, or that child has always been extra-helpful, or maybe because that child no matter what age, needs that extra help and protection. DG was the only son, there's a lot of work to do on that acreage.

Maybe DG's parents are super-nice people that yes, do recognize that DG has some issues, and want to make sure that he has a decent life. He's their son. IMO, given his history, etc., it would be better for the parents if DG would just go away. If they wanted that, I'm sure he wouldn't have been living there. We don't really know anything about DG's parents' health, its very possible that they enjoy having him around home to help out...it looks like he keeps amazing care of the place. We know that DG can live on his own, as he demonstrated for the 7 years he was away in BC, and we also know that obviously his parents managed somehow while he was away and in jail. IMO, DG lived at home because it was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I'm sorry, I must have missed something about DG's anger issues...is there something documented about that? I wasn't aware that he had an "angry" or "violent" nature in the past. The crimes he has committed in the past don't indicate that to me. It is possible I've missed that discussion.

 

[news.talk]

If I was to make a guess as to DG's plea, it would be that he will enter a not guilty plea. Whether by mental defect or just plain not guilty.

Given what we know of his past, he strikes me as the kind of person that doesn't take responsibility for his actions. The fact that the bodies were removed, points me in the direction of arrogance that he will not be convicted.

I suspect we are in for a very long haul with this case.

 

[news.talk]

Seeing as we are touching on hiding spots again I would like to ellaborate more on the potential for an underground shelter. I have no doubt in my mind that a person such as DG would be able to acheive and make use of such a space for various reasons.

Here is simple explanation of a project that I am aware of that has recently been built in the Calgary area, on a small acreage. I know the owner, and the architect, and am able to offer this decription. The house and workshop are designed as 2 buildings. For ease of access and use the 2 basements of the buildings are connected by a tunnel. Above grade the tunnel is covered by dirt and sidewalks, so from the outside you are unaware that the buildings are connected. From inside the house, it would be a simple extra step to make the tunnel access inside the house also concealed. This can be done by a concealed wall panel, door, or hidden behind cabinetry. Currently, you can go from the house basement to the shop basement by walking thru the tunnel. Materials that can be used are pressure treated wood that could be used below grade, or a metal culvert that is also designed to be buried or some other similar material or structure.

I think DG is perfectly capable of building something similar on the Airdrie property. If the parents enjoy travelling and leave for extended periods of time he would be able to do this without their knowledge. This can also be done with very little money and without an architect. All you really need is someone that has a general understanding of structure or who has been involved in building would be able to put something like this together.

Fair enough. What do you presume he used this hypothetical underground shelter for? To hide dead bodies or live ones? Also, do you not think LE would have discovered this or do you hypothesize they missed it somehow?

 

[Power of Two]

I could see DG having a private project of sorts like this too. If he's learned from his past mistakes in law breaking I could see him having a back up plan or stash location of sorts. I keep bringing up location brainstorms because I want these 3 brought home somehow soon and hope they're not forgotten because the media will tend to focus on DG, so sorry if I keep bringing up location hunting here, it just bothers me they're not confirmed found by LE :-(

I was born and raised on the Prairies and one thing that comes to mind is the place where farmers often dispose of animal carcasses. They drag or haul them out to the back 40 and then cover them in rocks which have been picked off of the fields. If you drive down any country roads where I come from you will often see a 'cairn' of sorts under which lie bones and flesh of dead animals. It wouldn't take much to place anything under these rocks, if one were so inclined to move a few around. and no one would be the wiser.

 

[Cherchri]

If I was to make a guess as to DG's plea, it would be that he will enter a not guilty plea. Whether by mental defect or just plain not guilty.

Given what we know of his past, he strikes me as the kind of person that doesn't take responsibility for his actions. The fact that the bodies were removed, points me in the direction of arrogance that he will not be convicted.

I suspect we are in for a very long haul with this case.

I agree. Sadly.

 

[news.talk]

:laughcry:
I don't know if you, or anyone else picked up from my posts that lye destroys DNA! For a "chemist" who wanted to make someone disappear without a trace, lye combined with burning is the most likely method - especially when you consider that lye/sodium hydroxide is cheap and easy to obtain. If anyone were to examine my searches over the past few weeks, I would be hauled off in cuffs! Now that made me laugh :silly: . Sadly, I don't believe the victims will ever be found but like you, I hope the nightmare ends soon.

I am still on the fence regarding disposal method.

On one hand, I can absolutely see your point and it makes perfect sense. LE removed chemicals from the acreage and in my experience, murderers tend to stick with what they know - In this case, chemicals.

On the other hand, while it seems that based on the suspected motive, there was a lot of planning that went into this crime. LE must have evidence of such to be confident with their case. But, it appears that the crime scene wasn't left as planned - too sloppy for pre-meditation of this type.

With the plan possibly taken a huge turn (maybe with the addition of NO) it is possible he changed the plan last minute leading to a quick dump.

Either way, I suspect we may be in for a long wait when it comes to the discovery of bodies.

 

[otto]

I posted numerous links at your request earlier... Did you miss them? I shared the outcome of a specific trial of a Mexican who used this disposal method for over 300 bodies. There was extensive coverage of his trial. There is no need to agree with my hypothesis but I hold firm on my belief that DG disposed of his victims this way. We may have to wait a really long time to find out if I am right. So be it! Here is yet another link for your perusal.... http://grind365.com/news/true-crime/mexican-kingpin-el-teo-captured/ and another http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nes-home-Mexican-drug-cartels-Stew-maker.html and a link to a book - follow the link to the heading Stewmaker excerpt...http://books.google.ca/books?id=0QM...posed of hundreds of bodies using lye&f=false

Addressing each of the links:

• "A Mexican drug cartel kingpin accused of dissolving victims in barrels of lye" ... if there are barrels of bodies in lye, they will be found. There are no barrels with bodies on the property. It would be easier to hide bodies, than barrels, in the prairies so, in my opinion, barrels would complicate the process of hiding the bodies.
  http://grind365.com/news/true-crime/mexican-kingpin-el-teo-captured/
  
  
• same case ... "Prosecutors have unearthed what appear to be fat, skin and bones at properties in the Mexican border city of Tijuana once used by a man nicknamed the 'Stew-maker', who confessed to dissolving the bodies of drug cartel victims." ... bodies will be found.
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nes-home-Mexican-drug-cartels-Stew-maker.html
  
  
• same case as above
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nes-home-Mexican-drug-cartels-Stew-maker.html
  
  
• error in facts ... posted contradictory content last time link was posted. The opinion piece is unreferenced.
  http://www.tarborotimes.com/2014/04/13/weird-news-how-to-dissolve-a-human-body-in-acid/

 

[otto]

Does anyone know if LE are still actively searching? I havent heard anything to that fact..........that is a large indicator as to what they are dealing with in terms of what they have found to date.

August 20, 2014

"Police have been searching for the bodies of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and Nathan O’Brien since they disappeared at the end of June. ... Despite what they’re up against, Cavilla says they continue to push for closure.

“The investigators continue to work diligently and long hours, until such time we’re able to provide answers to the family.”"

http://globalnews.ca/news/1518228/high-profile-murder-cases-taking-toll-on-calgary-police-officers/

 

[otto]

Seeing as we are touching on hiding spots again I would like to ellaborate more on the potential for an underground shelter. I have no doubt in my mind that a person such as DG would be able to acheive and make use of such a space for various reasons.

Here is simple explanation of a project that I am aware of that has recently been built in the Calgary area, on a small acreage. I know the owner, and the architect, and am able to offer this decription. The house and workshop are designed as 2 buildings. For ease of access and use the 2 basements of the buildings are connected by a tunnel. Above grade the tunnel is covered by dirt and sidewalks, so from the outside you are unaware that the buildings are connected. From inside the house, it would be a simple extra step to make the tunnel access inside the house also concealed. This can be done by a concealed wall panel, door, or hidden behind cabinetry. Currently, you can go from the house basement to the shop basement by walking thru the tunnel. Materials that can be used are pressure treated wood that could be used below grade, or a metal culvert that is also designed to be buried or some other similar material or structure.

I think DG is perfectly capable of building something similar on the Airdrie property. If the parents enjoy travelling and leave for extended periods of time he would be able to do this without their knowledge. This can also be done with very little money and without an architect. All you really need is someone that has a general understanding of structure or who has been involved in building would be able to put something like this together.

Police walked shoulder to shoulder until they covered every inch of the 40 acre property. If there was anything underground, they would have found it.

Does the workshop have a poured concrete foundation? That will make a big difference in terms of whether a bunker can be built. It sounds like you're describing a site that was excavated, and a concrete foundation that includes walls was poured. I don't think that anyone could build that on someone else's property ... and no one would notice. Do the underground walls, made of pressure treated wood, sit next to the dirt?

 

[LoisLane]

Yes There are many children that live with their parents as adults. Some are on AISH and can't afford to live on their own, some are otherwise disabled. There are some parents however, that seem to like having that one (1) child around...a lot of families I know have 1 that mom can't let go of, or feels extra-close to, or that child has always been extra-helpful, or maybe because that child no matter what age, needs that extra help and protection. DG was the only son, there's a lot of work to do on that acreage.

Maybe DG's parents are super-nice people that yes, do recognize that DG has some issues, and want to make sure that he has a decent life. He's their son. IMO, given his history, etc., it would be better for the parents if DG would just go away. If they wanted that, I'm sure he wouldn't have been living there. We don't really know anything about DG's parents' health, its very possible that they enjoy having him around home to help out...it looks like he keeps amazing care of the place. We know that DG can live on his own, as he demonstrated for the 7 years he was away in BC, and we also know that obviously his parents managed somehow while he was away and in jail. IMO, DG lived at home because it was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I'm sorry, I must have missed something about DG's anger issues...is there something documented about that? I wasn't aware that he had an "angry" or "violent" nature in the past. The crimes he has committed in the past don't indicate that to me. It is possible I've missed that discussion.

My last comment about anger issues is my own assumption. I assume that if you kill a human being you have anger issues. I have concluded from this that he is violent. JMO

 

[Krystine]

Apologies for the derail; the slaughterhouse was - and had to be kept - pristine. It actually took longer to clean it than it did to slaughter and distribute the fare. However, the dead pit was something out of a Stephen king book and would confuse future alien archaeologists as to why bones from worldwide animals are all in one place.

I wonder what farm implements the G property has,, a fence post auger is quick,, a tiller can also disperse.

I really think you could be onto something re: the farm implements. A very discreet method that would not attract any attention in a farming community in broad daylight.

 

[stan laurel]

ever wonder what the cop said to dg as they exited the bldg.? it was the first time that something said to him during a walk made him raise his head, and, he does not look to pleased with what the cop said. there is video footage of that moment but I just have a photo in this msm report.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/dougla...d-in-case-of-missing-calgary-family-1.1914262

was unsure of what cops are allowed to say in such situations.

 

[stan laurel]

Police walked shoulder to shoulder until they covered every inch of the 40 acre property. If there was anything underground, they would have found it.

Does the workshop have a poured concrete foundation? That will make a big difference in terms of whether a bunker can be built. It sounds like you're describing a site that was excavated, and a concrete foundation that includes walls was poured. I don't think that anyone could build that on someone else's property ... and no one would notice. Do the underground walls, made of pressure treated wood, sit next to the dirt?

neat eh?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/05/bc-police-uncover-underground-marijuana-grow-op