Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[otto]

I was born and raised on the Prairies and one thing that comes to mind is the place where farmers often dispose of animal carcasses. They drag or haul them out to the back 40 and then cover them in rocks which have been picked off of the fields. If you drive down any country roads where I come from you will often see a 'cairn' of sorts under which lie bones and flesh of dead animals. It wouldn't take much to place anything under these rocks, if one were so inclined to move a few around. and no one would be the wiser.

That's what was done with Victoria Stafford.

 

[otto]

neat eh?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/05/bc-police-uncover-underground-marijuana-grow-op

Yes ... 150 miles South, and built with shipping containers ... metal.

 

[stan laurel]

Yes ... 150 miles South, and built with shipping containers ... metal.

many Ukrainians and dutch who cleared the land out this way (only to then have it taken away by the govt), lived in sod homes thru outrageous winters. a good sod home is mostly underground and soil well prepared doesn't suffer from extraction and contraction. though I'm not on the bunker train, it isn't that far fetched. and there is also this thing called insulation.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I was born and raised on the Prairies and one thing that comes to mind is the place where farmers often dispose of animal carcasses. They drag or haul them out to the back 40 and then cover them in rocks which have been picked off of the fields. If you drive down any country roads where I come from you will often see a 'cairn' of sorts under which lie bones and flesh of dead animals. It wouldn't take much to place anything under these rocks, if one were so inclined to move a few around. and no one would be the wiser.

Now that would be an idea wouldn't it? Like you said no one would be the wiser if they're a common sight on the prairie scenery, people could be driving by them and not even know it. I'm assuming these are only seen on the animal/livestock farms? Sorry, probably a stupid question but wasn't sure if you mean farm animals or pest animals, and is this legal or are farmers expected to take the animals to that animal incinerator we saw photos of?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Police walked shoulder to shoulder until they covered every inch of the 40 acre property. If there was anything underground, they would have found it.

Does the workshop have a poured concrete foundation? That will make a big difference in terms of whether a bunker can be built. It sounds like you're describing a site that was excavated, and a concrete foundation that includes walls was poured. I don't think that anyone could build that on someone else's property ... and no one would notice. Do the underground walls, made of pressure treated wood, sit next to the dirt?

His hiding spot/shelter or even a shack he might've built if he had one, IMO would be off the acreage in a different location. And not necessarily used to keep people or bodies, but maybe documents and items or his stash of illegal paraphernalia if he has some. JMO. But maybe not, maybe LE found all that at the acreage if DG was stupid enough to get caught red-handed again and not learn from his previous brush with the law in the 90s.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes There are many children that live with their parents as adults. Some are on AISH and can't afford to live on their own, some are otherwise disabled. There are some parents however, that seem to like having that one (1) child around...a lot of families I know have 1 that mom can't let go of, or feels extra-close to, or that child has always been extra-helpful, or maybe because that child no matter what age, needs that extra help and protection. DG was the only son, there's a lot of work to do on that acreage.

Maybe DG's parents are super-nice people that yes, do recognize that DG has some issues, and want to make sure that he has a decent life. He's their son. IMO, given his history, etc., it would be better for the parents if DG would just go away. If they wanted that, I'm sure he wouldn't have been living there. We don't really know anything about DG's parents' health, its very possible that they enjoy having him around home to help out...it looks like he keeps amazing care of the place. We know that DG can live on his own, as he demonstrated for the 7 years he was away in BC, and we also know that obviously his parents managed somehow while he was away and in jail. IMO, DG lived at home because it was a mutually beneficial arrangement.

I'm sorry, I must have missed something about DG's anger issues...is there something documented about that? I wasn't aware that he had an "angry" or "violent" nature in the past. The crimes he has committed in the past don't indicate that to me. It is possible I've missed that discussion.

IMO I thought he might be angry or violent because of his assault charge (stayed) in the past. It's hard to say if he is an aggressive/bully type or passive aggressive coward type of angry person. He must've had lots of rage to take it out on the victims.

 

[stan laurel]

His hiding spot/shelter or even a shack he might've built if he had one, IMO would be off the acreage in a different location. And not necessarily used to keep people or bodies, but maybe documents and items or his stash of illegal paraphernalia if he has some. JMO. But maybe not, maybe LE found all that at the acreage if DG was stupid enough to get caught red-handed again and not learn from his previous brush with the law in the 90s.

Ever wonder who snitched DG on his meth lab? or him as the thief of the semi? or that he had a master key? or that he would be found with tools for B&E's on him? or for that matter, who reported him in hiding? or his truck as the one in the photo police put out to the public?

Maybe it was DG who reported all the incidents?

DG obviously has an identity crisis; on one hand you have the upstanding diligent worker ant with the potential for greater things ------------------------------- but, invisible, unknown.

Then you have DG, the tricky dick; petty crimes, not so petty crimes, fugitive and now murderer------------------ now, he's noticed.

He sure got snitched on a lot.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

ever wonder what the cop said to dg as they exited the bldg.? it was the first time that something said to him during a walk made him raise his head, and, he does not look to pleased with what the cop said. there is video footage of that moment but I just have a photo in this msm report.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/dougla...d-in-case-of-missing-calgary-family-1.1914262

was unsure of what cops are allowed to say in such situations.

The sad thing is, there's protocols - my family member who worked in corrections his whole life interviewing scum of the earth child sex offenders had to say 'yes sir' and 'no sir' and 'thank you' to these guys meanwhile the whole time the inmates could say whatever personal comments to him to try to get a rise out of him. Human rights at it's best (being sarcastic)! I'm curious what the cop said to, it might've been 'watch your step'!

 

[news.talk]

Ever wonder who snitched DG on his meth lab? or him as the thief of the semi? or that he had a master key? or that he would be found with tools for B&E's on him? or for that matter, who reported him in hiding? or his truck as the one in the photo police put out to the public?

Maybe it was DG who reported all the incidents?

DG obviously has an identity crisis; on one hand you have the upstanding diligent worker ant with the potential for greater things ------------------------------- but, invisible, unknown.

Then you have DG, the tricky dick; petty crimes, not so petty crimes, fugitive and now murderer------------------ now, he's noticed.

He sure got snitched on a lot.

I have a feeling - from what we know of him... That he craves notoriety. While these murders were personal, I suspect he wants to be considered some genius serial killer that is smarter than LE. I firmly believe he has killed before.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

My last comment about anger issues is my own assumption. I assume that if you kill a human being you have anger issues. I have concluded from this that he is violent. JMO

True enough....or mentally ill....or have poor judgement based on error in perception, or maybe high on drugs and don't know what you're doing...or panicked, scared, protecting someone/something. Well, if he wasn't violent before, it appears that he is now. :jail:

 

[stan laurel]

True enough....or mentally ill....or have poor judgement based on error in perception, or maybe high on drugs and don't know what you're doing...or panicked, scared, protecting someone/something. Well, if he wasn't violent before, it appears that he is now. :jail:

ever wonder if dg was on a powdered/crystalised courage that night? if he was, he was also in the delusion of extreme control. now that he's jailed and has no access to his courage/control, I wonder how his plan is unraveling in his head?

 

[LoisLane]

Fair enough. What do you presume he used this hypothetical underground shelter for? To hide dead bodies or live ones? Also, do you not think LE would have discovered this or do you hypothesize they missed it somehow?

It is very possible that LE discovered the hypothetical underground shelter, it could have given them a lot of evidence for various parts of this crime and/or other crimes. I don't know that he would hide dead bodies in it unless they were preserved somehow. I think he would have treated this space like a "man-den" and used it to conceal illegal activity. It could also be a place to manufacture and store drugs and supplies. I think it would be a place for him to hide if needed to and for an extended period of time, and if so it would include food and water and a compostable toilet. I don't know if the Garlands have other property or if DG has his own private land somewhere it very well could be and it could be kept from the public. It is a very practical idea for someone of his criminal nature.

 

[Cherchri]

:chillout:

Addressing each of the links:

• "A Mexican drug cartel kingpin accused of dissolving victims in barrels of lye" ... if there are barrels of bodies in lye, they will be found. There are no barrels with bodies on the property. It would be easier to hide bodies, than barrels, in the prairies so, in my opinion, barrels would complicate the process of hiding the bodies.
  http://grind365.com/news/true-crime/mexican-kingpin-el-teo-captured/
  
  
• same case ... "Prosecutors have unearthed what appear to be fat, skin and bones at properties in the Mexican border city of Tijuana once used by a man nicknamed the 'Stew-maker', who confessed to dissolving the bodies of drug cartel victims." ... bodies will be found.
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nes-home-Mexican-drug-cartels-Stew-maker.html
  
  
• same case as above
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nes-home-Mexican-drug-cartels-Stew-maker.html
  
  
• error in facts ... posted contradictory content last time link was posted. The opinion piece is unreferenced.
  http://www.tarborotimes.com/2014/04/13/weird-news-how-to-dissolve-a-human-body-in-acid/

I can't help you with basic comprehension but I will point out there would be nothing to find after the process I described. There were photographs of the acreage showing numerous blue barrels. Perfect for the job. If you dont like my links there are plenty of others. Would you respect the Royal Chemistry Society? If so read this http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/podcast/CIIEcompounds/transcripts/NaOH.asp . As I said earlier you don't have to accept my view. There are legal precedents, however and you can't change those just by stamping your feet and denouncing every article I produce. I wonder if you just feel like a good argument. No need to answer that. :chillout:

 

[Cherchri]

ever wonder if dg was on a powdered/crystalised courage that night? if he was, he was also in the delusion of extreme control. now that he's jailed and has no access to his courage/control, I wonder how his plan is unraveling in his head?

There is no evidence whatsoever of DG being a drug user

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Ever wonder who snitched DG on his meth lab? or him as the thief of the semi? or that he had a master key? or that he would be found with tools for B&E's on him? or for that matter, who reported him in hiding? or his truck as the one in the photo police put out to the public?

Maybe it was DG who reported all the incidents?

DG obviously has an identity crisis; on one hand you have the upstanding diligent worker ant with the potential for greater things ------------------------------- but, invisible, unknown.

Then you have DG, the tricky dick; petty crimes, not so petty crimes, fugitive and now murderer------------------ now, he's noticed.

He sure got snitched on a lot.

I wondered that too - how he was discovered in Vancouver. Did someone randomly recognize him at his workplace or was it someone he knew who blew the whistle on him? If it was someone he knew, I bet they weren't happy his sentence was so little, maybe they expected him to be in prison a long time after that, but instead he got a slap on the wrist.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There is no evidence whatsoever of DG being a drug user

I'm with you on that one, I don't think he was a user at all of hard drugs.

 

[Cherchri]

Evidence gathering. Everything piled up in front of the porch here is evidence. Please note barrels. Also everything laid out on the green tarp. This was just one day. View attachment 57663

Please note what is behind the greenhouse. View attachment 57664

This would also be a perfect vat for the lye treatment View attachment 57665
Again, no-one has to agree with me but he had what he needed at his fingertips!

 

[Cherchri]

neat eh?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/05/bc-police-uncover-underground-marijuana-grow-op

Amazing! :goodpost::websleuther:

 

[YYC Lady]

Might not be a big aspect of the case, but I'm curious how long DG's parents were scheduled to be away for. IMO, that played a large part in why DG chose that weekend to put his plan into action and maybe factored into his ultimate plan for disposal. Also, I think he did believe he was going to get away with the crime and that any cleanup at the acreage was in efforts to hide evidence from his *parents* and not LE.

I keep hoping I will get a breaking news alert that the victims remains have been found. It must be agony for survivors not knowing.

 

[otto]

:chillout:
I can't help you with basic comprehension but I will point out there would be nothing to find after the process I described. There were photographs of the acreage showing numerous blue barrels. Perfect for the job. If you dont like my links there are plenty of others. Would you respect the Royal Chemistry Society? If so read this http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/podcast/CIIEcompounds/transcripts/NaOH.asp . As I said earlier you don't have to accept my view. There are legal precedents, however and you can't change those just by stamping your feet and denouncing every article I produce. I wonder if you just feel like a good argument. No need to answer that. :chillout:

I'm looking for a logical explanation for how the bodies could be made to vanish given the facts of the case. There are no incinerators. Sodium hydroxide can't be put down the drain without compromising the septic tank. Burn temperatures cannot be raised to the level of a cremation. It's easier to hide a body than a barrel. It's true that given the right circumstances a body can be reduced to something that is difficult to find, but the Airdrie acreage does not have the right circumstances for the methods that are suggested. For example, if a body is heated to several hundred degrees, it will be reduced to nothing, however, it is impossible to have those temperatures on that acreage. Sodium Hydroxide can be added to a body in a sealed container. Then what ... does the accused then load three barrels onto the back of his truck and put them on someone else's property? Barrels in the field will not go unnoticed.

Maybe there is evidence that the bodies were destroyed on the property and police are simply not releasing that information ... but then they should stop wasting their time looking for the bodies.