Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[otto]

Evidence gathering. Everything piled up in front of the porch here is evidence. Please note barrels. Also everything laid out on the green tarp. This was just one day. View attachment 57663

Please note what is behind the greenhouse. View attachment 57664

This would also be a perfect vat for the lye treatment View attachment 57665
Again, no-one has to agree with me but he had what he needed at his fingertips!

The attachments come up as "invalid".

 

[LoriMcA]

neat eh?

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/05/bc-police-uncover-underground-marijuana-grow-op

Isn't that something...the things people come up with That reminded me of this case...anyone remember this?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/9-year-jail-terms-for-drug-tunnel-trio-1.584411

 

[Cherchri]

Might not be a big aspect of the case, but I'm curious how long DG's parents were scheduled to be away for. IMO, that played a large part in why DG chose that weekend to put his plan into action and maybe factored into his ultimate plan for disposal. Also, I think he did believe he was going to get away with the crime and that any cleanup at the acreage was in efforts to hide evidence from his *parents* and not LE.

I keep hoping I will get a breaking news alert that the victims remains have been found. It must be agony for survivors not knowing.

Now that we know they have another daughter living in the states, I wondered if they had gone down there for a visit. Perhaps with a motor home. Given that it was early summer, that seems feasible to me. Perhaps that daughter has children - their grandchildren. Poor souls, wherever they went they must have been bereft.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I have a feeling - from what we know of him... That he craves notoriety. While these murders were personal, I suspect he wants to be considered some genius serial killer that is smarter than LE. I firmly believe he has killed before.

I see quite the opposite. No social media accounts, but enough online presence to indicate he's computer aware and at least somewhat literate. No indication of a social life, lived with his parents a large part of his adult life... it doesn't scream attention seeker to me. I see more "leave me alone"... which better fits with a presumed motive of having being wronged.

 

[Cherchri]

Isn't that something...the things people come up with That reminded me of this case...anyone remember this?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/9-year-jail-terms-for-drug-tunnel-trio-1.584411

Wow! I didn't ever hear about this one Lori. That's some serious infrastructure and plenty tunnelling. Incredible.

 

[Cherchri]

I see quite the opposite. No social media accounts, but enough online presence to indicate he's computer aware and at least somewhat literate. No indication of a social life, lived with his parents a large part of his adult life... it doesn't scream attention seeker to me. I see more "leave me alone"... which better fits with a presumed motive of having being wronged.

Do you know this is exactly what I have just been mulling over - but I mean EXACTLY! That scares me a little

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I wondered that too - how he was discovered in Vancouver. Did someone randomly recognize him at his workplace or was it someone he knew who blew the whistle on him? If it was someone he knew, I bet they weren't happy his sentence was so little, maybe they expected him to be in prison a long time after that, but instead he got a slap on the wrist.

I thought I read somewhere that it was during one of the arrests that BC LE discovered his identity.

 

[Cherchri]

I thought I read somewhere that it was during one of the arrests that BC LE discovered his identity.

I'm pretty sure I read that a tip was called in from Alberta by someone who saw an old poster of Canada's ten most wanted. I will see if I can find a link.

 

[Cherchri]

The attachments come up as "invalid".

Well when I click on them the pictures appear? Anyone else unable to open them?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I'm looking for a logical explanation for how the bodies could be made to vanish given the facts of the case. There are no incinerators. Sodium hydroxide can't be put down the drain without compromising the septic tank. Burn temperatures cannot be raised to the level of a cremation. It's easier to hide a body than a barrel. It's true that given the right circumstances a body can be reduced to something that is difficult to find, but the Airdrie acreage does not have the right circumstances for the methods that are suggested. For example, if a body is heated to several hundred degrees, it will be reduced to nothing, however, it is impossible to have those temperatures on that acreage. Sodium Hydroxide can be added to a body in a sealed container. Then what ... does the accused then load three barrels onto the back of his truck and put them on someone else's property? Barrels in the field will not go unnoticed.

Maybe there is evidence that the bodies were destroyed on the property and police are simply not releasing that information ... but then they should stop wasting their time looking for the bodies.

You just sort of contradicted yourself... if there was evidence of destruction, but no large quantities of remains, then why would LE stop looking? "They don't know what they're looking for"... Remember? A liquid dump site fits that description.

Did the perp throw 3 barrels on the truck and dump the contents somewhere? Perhaps... if a truck carrying barrels passed you on the highway, are you calling LE? What if it was under a tarp? Nothing suspicious or difficult there. Who says you need to leave the barrels behind? Wash them out, throw them out... it's completely plausible.

I find it difficult to believe a human body can't burn at the temperature of burning wood... everyone would survive house fires then.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Well when I click on them the pictures appear? Anyone else unable to open them?

I can't open them either…

 

[Cherchri]

:tos:

I thought I read somewhere that it was during one of the arrests that BC LE discovered his identity.

Yes many references but this is the one I recall. This is the article I found and shared here before the POI was named. It wasn't here for long. SNIP:tos: Douglas Garland: Scientist using dead boy's name - Injusticebusters
injusticebusters.org/index.htm/newstories3.htm
Douglas Garland, 39, vanished seven years ago after Calgary police seized ... A recent tip led police to Mr. Garland in Vancouver, where he was arrested last ... Last week, a tipster called Crime Stoppers in Calgary to say Mr. Garland was ...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm pretty sure I read that a tip was called in from Alberta by someone who saw an old poster of Canada's ten most wanted. I will see if I can find a link.

Yes, that was it. I wonder who the tip was from?

"Police found Garland in 1999 after a tip from the public and he was handed a 39-month sentence in 2000."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...arged-with-murders-of-missing-calgary-family/

ETA - I think we just posted at the same time lol:great:

 

[Cherchri]

Evidence gathering. Everything piled up in front of the porch here is evidence. Please note barrels. Also everything laid out on the green tarp. This was just one day. View attachment 57663

Please note what is behind the greenhouse. View attachment 57664

This would also be a perfect vat for the lye treatment View attachment 57665
Again, no-one has to agree with me but he had what he needed at his fingertips!

Some people aren't able to open my attachments so trying again

 

[Shags0sh]

I can't tell if DG is super arrogant or a coward who crumbles when someone says 'boo'. I thought arrogant, but maybe I'm wrong. If we knew this I think it would help find where the trio were put and how.

I watched a recent episode of 'The Hunt' with Adam Walsh where they profiled killer Brad Bishop who murdered his 5 family members (wife, mother and 3 children) and is still a wanted fugitive. After he murdered them, he loaded them all in the back of the family station wagon and drove 275 miles (6 hours) with a car full of deceased persons to secluded woods, buried them in a shallow grave, poured gasoline and lit them on fire. My point is - Brad Bishop was arrogant enough to (take his time) and drive 6 hours with his deceased family in the car without worrying about the risk of being caught, then drew attention to the crime by the fire. I can't tell if DG would've spent the time to hide the family, or did he do a quick rid of them?

I'm assuming he is very arrogant. He took the government to court without a lawyer. IMO this embodies arrogance.

 

[Power of Two]

Now that would be an idea wouldn't it? Like you said no one would be the wiser if they're a common sight on the prairie scenery, people could be driving by them and not even know it. I'm assuming these are only seen on the animal/livestock farms? Sorry, probably a stupid question but wasn't sure if you mean farm animals or pest animals, and is this legal or are farmers expected to take the animals to that animal incinerator we saw photos of?

Yes.. these rock piles are built up over large dead farm animals. Depending on geographic location some farms have more rocks than others, which get tilled up each year, and need to be removed in order not to damage equipment at planting and harvest time. Not all farms have backhoes or excavators for burials and it is just easier to have a designated area for carcass disposal. Piling rocks on them also detracts scavengers from dragging remains all over kingdom come. Its a win-win.
ps... there are no stupid questions

 

[Cherchri]

I'm looking for a logical explanation for how the bodies could be made to vanish given the facts of the case. There are no incinerators. Sodium hydroxide can't be put down the drain without compromising the septic tank. Burn temperatures cannot be raised to the level of a cremation. It's easier to hide a body than a barrel. It's true that given the right circumstances a body can be reduced to something that is difficult to find, but the Airdrie acreage does not have the right circumstances for the methods that are suggested. For example, if a body is heated to several hundred degrees, it will be reduced to nothing, however, it is impossible to have those temperatures on that acreage. Sodium Hydroxide can be added to a body in a sealed container. Then what ... does the accused then load three barrels onto the back of his truck and put them on someone else's property? Barrels in the field will not go unnoticed.

Maybe there is evidence that the bodies were destroyed on the property and police are simply not releasing that information ... but then they should stop wasting their time looking for the bodies.

But you keep refuting what is scientific fact. This can be done in a bath tub and flushed down the drain. Why do you think it will compromise the septic tank? Did you read this post a couple of pages back? These are facts. I can't make you accept my theory but you surely can't keep disputing facts? Here is my earlier post: For those who have any interest, Alkaline Hydrolysis (dissolving remains in lye) may be the way we are disposed of in future..... http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249 "The system works by submerging the body in a solution of water and potassium hydroxide which is pressurised to 10 atmospheres and heated to 180C for between two-and-a-half and three hours.

Body tissue is dissolved and the liquid poured into the municipal water system. Mr Sullivan, a biochemist by training, says tests have proven the effluent is sterile and contains no DNA, and poses no environmental risk.

The bones are then removed from the unit and processed in a "cremulator", the same machine that is used to crush bone fragments following cremation into ash. Metals including mercury and artificial joints and implants are safely recovered." Excerpt from BBC News http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-14114555 BBM

Because I can't paste unauthorized pics here, google make incinerator with barrel and check out the images.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm assuming he is very arrogant. He took the government to court without a lawyer. IMO this embodies arrogance.

Very true, and if he's arrogant I think that plays a part in what he did after the crime. He definitely seems to have nerve from his past actions and behaviors also. Then he probably won't flinch at LE or the lawyers then, he'll sit back and perversely enjoy it all and won't tell them what he did with them.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes.. these rock piles are built up over large dead farm animals. Depending on geographic location some farms have more rocks than others, which get tilled up each year, and need to be removed in order not to damage equipment at planting and harvest time. Not all farms have backhoes or excavators for burials and it is just easier to have a designated area for carcass disposal. Piling rocks on them also detracts scavengers from dragging remains all over kingdom come. Its a win-win.
ps... there are no stupid questions

Thanks Power of Two, very interesting! I could almost see him (or any killer for that matter) doing something so *obvious* such as this, quite tricky actually. Like you said no one would bat an eye seeing that right in front of them.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I'm assuming he is very arrogant. He took the government to court without a lawyer. IMO this embodies arrogance.

I don't see that as arrogance. I see that as a need to seek justice when feeling wronged. He paid the employment insurance premiums from money he earned working. He has a point... why should he be denied coverage simply because the name was incorrect. He paid for the coverage, he should receive the coverage. I don't recall the government offering to reimburse him for the premiums paid. You can't demand premiums, and then deny coverage. Fair is fair. There may be a lack tact, but given the loner type of personality, he may not be governed by social norms and constraints.

For the amount of the payout, it may not have been worth hiring a lawyer.