Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[Lalalacasbah]

I think the answer lies in the video media report that the Mazatlan property was jointly owned by Garland and Liknes. Which Garland would have money to invest in the property?

If the answer is the parents - why would people in their 80s suddenly buy a Mexico retirement apartment? At that age, they should remain close to home purely for health care reasons, ... and if the answer is Garland's sibling; Alvin's wife, why would it be a priority for a young family to invest in a retirement home for in-laws? I think the problem is in that nest.

Is it too far fetched so think maybe DG was the Garland investor? Maybe he was a silent partner, or maybe DG dipped into his parent's financial accounts to chip in? I'm assuming DG's parents looked after their own finances, but maybe not? DG was even using his parent's email account for P2 solutions, so as stan mentioned awhile back, I too am curious about the family dynamics and wonder who was dominant one in the Garland household with every day life.

 

[otto]

take cherchi's theory of lye, add my and others theory of an off the acreage grave and have it that it's a pre-dug spot lined with a heavy 5mm guage plastic and tarp. dump the bodies, pour in your chemical, cover with more poly and tarp, cover with top soil and leave. If done in an area that won't get tilled...

I see that as hiding the remains in remote locations (three victims) and pouring some sort of chemical on the remains that may hasten decomposition (quick lime), but won't eliminate the evidence. That's different than complete liquification, or powderization, with a mad scientist on the back 40.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

How much sodium hydroxide was needed to dissolve three bodies, where did he buy it, and where did he use it ... where are the barrels that were sealed, how were they sealed, where they left on the property after being used to liquefy bodies? How long does it take to liquefy bodies in barrels without pressurization? What happens to the brown stuff that is left behind if it is not poured down the bathtub drain? If the bones are crushed, what is done with that dust?

Is lye sold by weight or volume? Volume?

I think all theories on here are pretty plausible with this case, I'm pretty open minded and don't like to knock anyone else's theory. But I have to say the chemicals/incinerator doesn't jive with me as much, because I can't help to think that it's SO much WORK and why go through all the work to leave no trace evidence to be connected when a victim's hair or drop of blood could be found in a vehicle? Making a body disappear into nothing only makes it disappear from the location it's done in, not from where it's been and it leaves a trail of evidence behind in a vehicle, a yard, a house, etc. So much work could be all for nothing when DNA can touch many things on it's way to be destroyed. JMO.

 

[otto]

MAYBE a new modern septic system was recently put in and the OLD one is where the liquified bodies were put. How long does a septic system last? I have heard of old ones being replaced but don't know how old old is.

Just an opinion, but I think that the only reason that anyone would replace an underground cistern connected to the house plumbing is because it is absolutely necessary. 40-50 feet of pipe of septic field is buried several feet deep, sloping away from the house, and that's not something that anyone replaces to "update the system". If the plumbing works, don't replace it. Septic tanks/fiels easily last 40-50 years, and this property is 40 years old. If I had to guess, I would say that the septic field at the Airdrie acreage runs from the back porch West, to where there is a row of trees ... and my guess is that it is the original plumbing.

 

[stan laurel]

I see that as hiding the remains in remote locations (three victims) and pouring some sort of chemical on the remains that may hasten decomposition (quick lime), but won't eliminate the evidence. That's different than complete liquification, or powderization, with a mad scientist on the back 40.

I can go out with a shovel right now and dig a hole in a pasture and nobody will notice, not all farms are tilled, some are vast stretches of pasture for grazing. a friends family has 50,000 acres near waterton and the friends father still has yet to see all the land.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Fair enough. I only wondered as I remembered a case of a missing woman near Edmonton, where her common law husband was eventually charged and once they found her remains that charge was included. (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/07/...-husband-in-slaying-of-northern-alberta-woman) I would be curious why they would add that in some cases but not others?

I find this case so disturbing, and even moreso since NO was involved. :-(

I agree, I can't even look at photos of NO, it breaks my heart and I can't imagine what his parents are going through. So, so senseless for the poor boy to have been caught in this mess.

 

[stan laurel]

Just an opinion, but I think that the only reason that anyone would replace an underground cistern connected to the house plumbing is because it is absolutely necessary. 40-50 feet of pipe of septic field is buried several feet deep, sloping away from the house, and that's not something that anyone replaces to "update the system". If the plumbing works, don't replace it. Septic tanks/fiels easily last 40-50 years, and this property is 40 years old. If I had to guess, I would say that the septic field at the Airdrie acreage runs from the back porch West, to where there is a row of trees ... and my guess is that it is the original plumbing.

the older tanks do rupture and the newer tanks last forever,, a swap out is quick and usually from where the old one was. but, is there an old oil tank buried. not all properties were up to gas then.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'll post a map of crime scene 1 to Brooks. He might have had some drug connections to Brooks in those missing years. He also rented a space in Crossfield at the time of the drug arrest. He was convicted of trafficking even though he was not charged with having drugs ... meth cook conviction. Is that within a two hour round trip, and still close enough to home, with enough time to go back to hose down the area?

There was that post way back in the threads here that someone local mentioned seeing that truck on their way to/from Crossfield also, but with a blonde guy driving. Do you guys remember that? I think the time didn't match up though or something...

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I think the answer lies in the video media report that the Mazatlan property was jointly owned by Garland and Liknes. Which Garland would have money to invest in the property?

If the answer is the parents - why would people in their 80s suddenly buy a Mexico retirement apartment? At that age, they should remain close to home purely for health care reasons, ... and if the answer is Garland's sibling; Alvin's wife, why would it be a priority for a young family to invest in a retirement home for in-laws? I think the problem is in that nest.

:treadmill: lol...not all people in their 80's are knocking on heaven's door, so to speak. My aunt and uncle are in their early and middle 80's with a few health concerns. They just buy extra travel insurance. They travel all over, Europe, Jamaica, Turks and Caicos. My grandmother was quite spry at 92. I think it's entirely possible Mr & Mrs. Garland could have invested in property in Mexico...perhaps even for their son and daughters' sakes as well as their grandchildren. Or, if they have health concerns, Mexico may be the perfect environment for whatever ails them. We don't know what the Garlands' health concerns are, if any.

 

[Power of Two]

Looking at the property from helicopter pics, if a new system was put in they would have likely used the original field,, swapping out a fiberglass tank for a newer plastic tank isn't a big deal, question is, if that one was left in ground, where are the caps to it and did they soil/sand fill it? Sometimes the field pipes collapse but I don't see ground disturbance for a replacement. One system - industrial - I worked on built a standby field in case of a future collapse. Here's the creepy bit,, though the standby was put in place twenty years earlier and never used, running a camera into the system showed many thriving albino spiders and other crawly leggy things living there. We figured the spiders got there when the pipes were laid but not yet covered. Quite shocking a sight on the monitor.

Just want to say thank you, Stan, for all your wild and wooly stories and theories.

 

[stan laurel]

There was that post way back in the threads here that someone local mentioned seeing that truck on their way to/from Crossfield also, but with a blonde guy driving. Do you guys remember that? I think the time didn't match up though or something...

The fellow lives in Bodo and is top shelf in the community as they say,, he saw the vehicle but what looked like a younger fellow driving slow at 4:30am on highway 12 near veteran (liknes territory) on July 3rd or 4th. He did not report it until he saw the news a few hours later regarding the truck.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

The fellow lives in Bodo and is top shelf in the community as they say,, he saw the vehicle but what looked like a younger fellow driving slow at 4:30am on highway 12 near veteran (liknes territory) on July 3rd or 4th. He did not report it until he saw the news a few hours later regarding the truck.

A younger fellow? Well, that wouldn't be DG...so there must have been someone else involved. Someone younger, and perhaps stronger than DG. I thought I had heard at one point that it was a blonde fellow...ah yes...found it in quote #408.

What kind of blonde? A Liknes blonde? Or, an RO blonde? Hmmm, interesting.

If it were a Liknes (say JL) or RO, then that might indicate that there were interactions between the Liknes and Garland families, through DG as well as thru his sister
Interesting thought.

 

[stan laurel]

Just want to say thank you, Stan, for all your wild and wooly stories and theories.

never sure when people are being sarcastic, so

you're welcome!

 

[Power of Two]

Was he that confident that he wouldn't be caught?

... so he wasn't trying to get caught?

Who pumps out a septic tank as part of pre-winter maintenance?

The need to pump out your septic tank is dependant on what kind of use it gets. We used to get ours pumped every 4-5 years when raising a family, with all the laundry and hard use. I wouldn't imagine 3 senior citizens would tax a functioning septic field and would venture a guess it could last upwards of 10 years between visits from the Honey Wagon. There really is little need to pump unless trees have been planted nearby and have invaded the field with their roots, which is a common problem, or heavy machinery/vehicles have driven over the drainage system and damaged the infrastructure. Not that I am an expert, by any stretch!

 

[stan laurel]

The need to pump out your septic tank is dependant on what kind of use it gets. We used to get ours pumped every 4-5 years when raising a family, with all the laundry and hard use. I wouldn't imagine 3 senior citizens would tax a functioning septic field and would venture a guess it could last upwards of 10 years between visits from the Honey Wagon. There really is little need to pump unless trees have been planted nearby and have invaded the field with their roots, which is a common problem, or heavy machinery/vehicles have driven over the drainage system and damaged the infrastructure. Not that I am an expert, by any stretch!

or that your son who's doing maintenance figured that now was a good time to do a pump out while your on holidays.

 

[Power of Two]

never sure when people are being sarcastic, so

you're welcome!

No sarcasm whatsoever! Seems you have had a number of incarnations and I appreciate the insights you offer related to them. That simple

 

[LoriMcA]

There was that post way back in the threads here that someone local mentioned seeing that truck on their way to/from Crossfield also, but with a blonde guy driving. Do you guys remember that? I think the time didn't match up though or something...

The reports *& I do believe he'd drawn a map in a post also ...would have to look...showing the route & where he'd seen the guy* that dangeross gave ...a guy ...younger...blonde...heading north into Airdrie...but IIRC...he'd seen the truck about 4:30 - 5:00 pm on the day LE first went to the acreage *Friday July 4th I believe?* Anyways...the first 2 links are about the truck....

The third link is just for reference to reports from dangeross as well...about the greenhouse lights & burning....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-4&p=10715340#post10715340


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-4&p=10715393#post10715393


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-4&p=10715452#post10715452


ETA: here is Dangeross' map:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-5&p=10726546#post10726546

 

[otto]

Looking at the property from helicopter pics, if a new system was put in they would have likely used the original field,, swapping out a fiberglass tank for a newer plastic tank isn't a big deal, question is, if that one was left in ground, where are the caps to it and did they soil/sand fill it? Sometimes the field pipes collapse but I don't see ground disturbance for a replacement. One system - industrial - I worked on built a standby field in case of a future collapse. Here's the creepy bit,, though the standby was put in place twenty years earlier and never used, running a camera into the system showed many thriving albino spiders and other crawly leggy things living there. We figured the spiders got there when the pipes were laid but not yet covered. Quite shocking a sight on the monitor.

Septic tanks and fields are buried. Swapping them out means excavating.
Open buried pipes would attract a lot more than spiders, wouldn't they?

 

[otto]

Fair enough. I only wondered as I remembered a case of a missing woman near Edmonton, where her common law husband was eventually charged and once they found her remains that charge was included. (http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/07/...-husband-in-slaying-of-northern-alberta-woman) I would be curious why they would add that in some cases but not others?

I find this case so disturbing, and even moreso since NO was involved. :-(

If it was a second degree charge, which is 10 years and parole, then adding another charge may increase the sentence, but I doubt it. Murder, with or without mutilation, will be either second or first degree murder. I think those sentences trump lesser charges ... but I'm not sure how the new "consecutive" law fits.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The reports *& I do believe he'd drawn a map in a post also ...would have to look...showing the route & where he'd seen the guy* that dangeross gave ...a guy ...younger...blonde...heading north into Airdrie...but IIRC...he'd seen the truck about 4:30 - 5:00 pm on the day LE first went to the acreage *Friday July 4th I believe?* Anyways...the first 2 links are about the truck....

The third link is just for reference to reports from dangeross as well...about the greenhouse lights & burning....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-4&p=10715340#post10715340


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-4&p=10715393#post10715393


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-4&p=10715452#post10715452


ETA: here is Dangeross' map:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...algary-30-June-2014-5&p=10726546#post10726546

Thanks for the links LoriMcA! Whoah, I just noticed something in the 2nd link (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...3#post10715393):

(BBM) "I saw out of the way as the acreage is just outside of the Airdrie city limits in the NE, to get there you would either take highway QE2 to the 3rd exit(Veterans blvd) east, or Yankee valley east to east lake blvd north to Veterans blvd."

IIRC it was the East Lake Blvd area where that search happened in and around the old Cam Clark Ford building. Not sure there's a connection and still unsure about times matching up, but I wonder if DG went to far as to disguise himself? In a wig or dress?

ETA - I don't mean women's dress, I should've said attire