Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[LoriMcA]

The need to pump out your septic tank is dependant on what kind of use it gets. We used to get ours pumped every 4-5 years when raising a family, with all the laundry and hard use. I wouldn't imagine 3 senior citizens would tax a functioning septic field and would venture a guess it could last upwards of 10 years between visits from the Honey Wagon. There really is little need to pump unless trees have been planted nearby and have invaded the field with their roots, which is a common problem, or heavy machinery/vehicles have driven over the drainage system and damaged the infrastructure. Not that I am an expert, by any stretch!

^^BBM
I didn't realize 54 was a senior citizen............ *& yes..I'm being sarcastic....I'm 54 in a week or so!* *L*

 

[stan laurel]

Septic tanks and fields are buried. Swapping them out means excavating.
Open buried pipes would attract a lot more than spiders, wouldn't they?

swapping a tank is really quite easy, swapping a field is more labourious but not terribly hard with good hands helping. typically, the old tank is crushed in place and scooped with a short trench for the connection to field. a tank-top cap at best is really 8+ inches below ground at sea level and 14+ inches at Calgary. the buried pipes could be accessed by the drainage holes but for spiders (which I must say look huge when your lens is up in their face and they are on your monitor), well let's just say, we're doomed if spiders get smarter than they already are.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

stan, you mentioned some local bodies of water. Does anyone know much about East Lake in Airdrie? Hypothetical here - but LE was searching that general area of East Lake Blvd NE and I see East Lake there. Maybe it's just a shallow pond-like lake, but I wonder if LE searched there? Looks like a populated area, not too discrete though.

 

[LoriMcA]

Thanks for the links LoriMcA! Whoah, I just noticed something in the 2nd link (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...3#post10715393):

(BBM) "I saw out of the way as the acreage is just outside of the Airdrie city limits in the NE, to get there you would either take highway QE2 to the 3rd exit(Veterans blvd) east, or Yankee valley east to east lake blvd north to Veterans blvd."

IIRC it was the East Lake Blvd area where that search happened in and around the old Cam Clark Ford building. Not sure there's a connection and still unsure about times matching up, but I wonder if DG went to far as to disguise himself? In a wig or dress?

Yes...the East Lake Ramp side road to go east from QE2 is where that search was at the old Ford dealership.

As for times...dangeross said it was about 430PM or so on the Friday...that was the day LE went to the Airdrie property...so as for a disguise...I don't know if he'd be using one that day? Although a disguise would be a thought on the night of the disappearances wouldn't it....hmm...JMOO

When dangeross saw the truck would have been after the truck description was sent out to the public *IIRC the description went out earlier on that afternoon*

Do you mean...disguise as in...he's trying to hide himself despite driving the described truck? I would think anyone looking that day would notice 'truck' first...driver after....but who knows....it could be possible!

 

[stan laurel]

stan, you mentioned some local bodies of water. Does anyone know much about East Lake in Airdrie? Hypothetical here - but LE was searching that general area of East Lake Blvd NE and I see East Lake there. Maybe it's just a shallow pond-like lake, but I wonder if LE searched there? Looks like a populated area, not too discrete though.

I'm stuck firm on ghost lake - 60 km's the back way from dg's -. sloughs are tough to get to especially after a lot of rain, the black truck stuck in the pic gives a good idea of how soupy the ground is with any slough and then bulrush to contend with. There are also countless irrigation canals crisscrossing the province for farmers that run swift and silty.

as for night time,, ghost is a great burbot fishery which is best fished at night, so it's not uncommon to see people at night with headlamps at shore till freeze up, and it's very deep and cold.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes...the East Lake Blvd side road to go east from QE2 is where that search was at the old Ford dealership.

As for times...dangeross said it was about 430PM or so on the Friday...that was the day LE went to the Airdrie property...so as for a disguise...I don't know if he'd be using one that day? Although a disguise would be a thought on the night of the disappearances wouldn't it....hmm...JMOO

When dangeross saw the truck would have been after the truck description was sent out to the public *IIRC the description went out earlier on that afternoon*

Do you mean...disguise as in...he's trying to hide himself despite driving the described truck? I would think anyone looking that day would notice 'truck' first...driver after....but who knows....it could be possible!

I thought since the driver was described with blonde hair, maybe DG disguised himself while driving around the Liknes neighborhood and while transporting the victims in the vehicle (he might've transported them twice, on different dates even), but now I'm thinking it's probably too far fetched. Not sure killers use disguises, maybe just bank robbers lol!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm stuck firm on ghost lake - 60 km's the back way from dg's -. sloughs are tough to get to especially after a lot of rain, the black truck stuck in the pic gives a good idea of how soupy the ground is with any slough and then bulrush to contend with. There are also countless irrigation canals crisscrossing the province for farmers that run swift and silty.

as for night time,, ghost is a great burbot fishery which is best fished at night, so it's not uncommon to see people at night with headlamps at shore till freeze up, and it's very deep and cold.

I just thought a coincidence since LE was searching East Lake Ramp Rd on July 19th, a volunteer/local search party (not LE) met at Scouts Hall at that lake area also on July 16th, so why not search the lake there? I wonder what the connection is to that area that led LE to search there other than it's a road to travel?

ETA: news article links
http://www.rockyviewweekly.com/article/20140721/RVW0801/307219997/-1/rvw
http://www.airdriecityview.com/arti...d-murderer-s-case-held-over-search-called-off (photo caption comment)

 

[otto]

No they don't, but not all maintenance on industrial/commercial systems is properly maintained and that's where things start to fail,, so in come the pump trucks and pressure washers and steam to break down the top layer of grease that has cloggedd/seize the aerator because the bacteria relies on oxygen to do it's anaerobic digesting.

In this case we're talking DG being the maintenance fellow who is going to request a full flush and pressure cleaning and reintroduce bacteria to prime the system to normal before his parents come home.

BBM ... that's the difference. This is a residential property, not an industrial/commercial system.

Residential septic tanks don't need a "full flush", and commercial properties in Calgary and the town of Airdrie do not typically have septic tanks.

The accused is not a "maintenance fellow". He is a prisoner, formerly a loner that lived with his parents. At the age of 20, he was expelled from university for cheating. Years later, he posed under a false identity with false credentials in Vancouver for seven years. His parents owned the land where he lived, they are still alive, and presumably make decisions about replacing the plumbing for no reason.

Wouldn't the parents of the accused ensure that they, not their children (deceptive loser Doug), make decisions about their home, future, and lives? They were outspoken about changes in their neighbourhood, so they weren't feeble ... presumably they are still of sound mind. I doubt that, at the age of 80, they were going to hang out at the other in-laws apartment in Mazatlan ... ie: they were not buying Mexico timeshares through the Liknes victims.

 

[otto]

Nathan's mom announced early on that the Mazatlan purchase was a family venture. That is in one of the first press conferences where the family spoke. I have to wonder which of the five or six of Alvin's children pitched in. If this was an Allen Alvin purchase, where the twin brothers had a business that sustained purchasing property, and the Garland name was buried deep in the title papers ... that could have been a problem.

Which Garland pitched in to by the in-laws a retirement property in Mexico?

 

[LoriMcA]

I thought since the driver was described with blonde hair, maybe DG disguised himself while driving around the Liknes neighborhood and while transporting the victims in the vehicle (he might've transported them twice, on different dates even), but now I'm thinking it's probably too far fetched. Not sure killers use disguises, maybe just bank robbers lol!

Actually when you said 'wig' and 'dress' *I saw your ETA on that post & literally LOL'ed* I DID envision wig & DRESS...ie a Norman Bates type scenario....I know...I know...my mind is warped...too many movies me thinks...

 

[stan laurel]

BBM ... that's the difference. This is a residential property, not an industrial/commercial system.

Residential septic tanks don't need a "full flush", and commercial properties in Calgary and the town of Airdrie do not typically have septic tanks.

The accused is not a "maintenance fellow". He is a prisoner, formerly a loner that lived with his parents. At the age of 20, he was expelled from university for cheating. Years later, he posed under a false identity with false credentials in Vancouver for seven years. His parents owned the land where he lived, they are still alive, and presumably make decisions about replacing the plumbing for no reason.

Wouldn't the parents of the accused ensure that they, not their children (deceptive loser Doug), make decisions about their home, future, and lives? They were outspoken about changes in their neighbourhood, so they weren't feeble ... presumably they are still of sound mind. I doubt that, at the age of 80, they were going to hang out at the other in-laws apartment in Mazatlan ... ie: they were not buying Mexico timeshares through the Liknes victims.

No they don't need a full flush, unless of course, your parents are out of town and you've put something down the drain that should be removed asap. $450 and your clean. And I think likely that DG keeps up the property in tandem with his parents.

Not all commercial/residential/industrial sites are on mainline sewer systems,, temporary and permanent systems are all over the place.

Though DG is in custody, I still - as a Canadian - believe he must be respected as innocent until proven guilty. There seems to be a disconnect between the words loner and private. One set of my neighbours would consider me a loner because I don't acknowledge them, but that's only because they are openly racist and bigoted. Maybe DG is a loser, and, maybe he is innocent of the crime. If he is found guilty of this crime, have at him - me too - but until that time poking names as such on him doesn't seem right IMO.

 

[otto]

I thought since the driver was described with blonde hair, maybe DG disguised himself while driving around the Liknes neighborhood and while transporting the victims in the vehicle (he might've transported them twice, on different dates even), but now I'm thinking it's probably too far fetched. Not sure killers use disguises, maybe just bank robbers lol!

He didn't transport the bodies more than once, he passed the surveillance camera more than once between 10PM on Jun 29 and 10AM on Jun 30. Is the empty truck bed photo taken at 10PM or 4AM?

Why would the accused wear a disguise driving past surveillance cameras more than once on the night of the murder? Did he think that he would blend in? Surely there is a second set of photos with bodies in the back of his truck ... that were not released once the murders were solved.

What if we assume that investigators knew from the outset that this was a murder investigation?

 

[Krystine]

Yes another icky job I've had,,,

don't use dead cats/animals to create bacteria,, firstly, it's the wrong kind of bacteria and secondly, the kitties/puppies little bones might clog the lines to the septic field. You can reverse blast a field via line caps but only do this if you hate your spouse, and don't have dinner by candlelight during a steam blast.

always use a powdered bacteria but don't overkill the system with it,, half a cup every two weeks with septonic is plenty.

never ever use grease enzymes to break down grease,, the new grease form will pass to the lines/field but just like some creepy alien in a B-flick, the grease will reconstitute itself in a string like manner and grow in the water that's doing it's thing underground and in the pipes.

65% of los angeles sewer pipes built before 1970 have so much grease that only veins of more viscous liquid can sort of get thru the pipes.

think of this when you have your next BLT with extra bacon,, then think of your heart and your gastro bits and your brain.

bon appetite!!! For the mericans browsing this thread, canucks speak French, poorly.

You seem to be a magnet for icky jobs

 

[Slebby]

I think all theories on here are pretty plausible with this case, I'm pretty open minded and don't like to knock anyone else's theory. But I have to say the chemicals/incinerator doesn't jive with me as much, because I can't help to think that it's SO much WORK and why go through all the work to leave no trace evidence to be connected when a victim's hair or drop of blood could be found in a vehicle? Making a body disappear into nothing only makes it disappear from the location it's done in, not from where it's been and it leaves a trail of evidence behind in a vehicle, a yard, a house, etc. So much work could be all for nothing when DNA can touch many things on it's way to be destroyed. JMO.

I'm with you. I too consider all possibilities including the use of chemicals or burning to dispose of bodies, but I lean more towards the KISS theory and Occam's Razor. In my opinion, that means the bodies were dumped as quickly as possible.
IMHO

 

[Slebby]

I can go out with a shovel right now and dig a hole in a pasture and nobody will notice, not all farms are tilled, some are vast stretches of pasture for grazing. a friends family has 50,000 acres near waterton and the friends father still has yet to see all the land.

I agree. There could be a body buried at the bottom of my back yard right now and I wouldn't know it.

Farm properties are not perfect squares of perfect tillable land. In real life, there are groves of trees, sloughs, rocky areas. Back on our family farm, it would have been easy for anyone to dump bodies in water or partially bury them, and I'm sure we would have never found them.

If I was desperately wanting to get rid of bodies and avoid being identified as a killer, I'd be less worried about finding the perfect 6 foot deep burial site or chemical disposal method than about distancing myself from the crime.

IMHO

 

[Slebby]

I think anyone with the foresight to bring a disguise along (blonde wig) would also have the foresight not to drive a distinctive old Ford truck that could be traced back to him.

IMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Actually when you said 'wig' and 'dress' *I saw your ETA on that post & literally LOL'ed* I DID envision wig & DRESS...ie a Norman Bates type scenario....I know...I know...my mind is warped...too many movies me thinks...

Haha, I realized after I read my own post that it does sound Norman Bates-ish lol! It's crazy how the idea changes if I use the word attire as opposed to dress...He might've worn a lumber jack costume for all I know lol. But yeah, I meant if he was in some type of pre-planned garb to cover his own clothes and possibly a wig even maybe, but I think I've watched too many movies also

 

[Lalalacasbah]

He didn't transport the bodies more than once, he passed the surveillance camera more than once between 10PM on Jun 29 and 10AM on Jun 30. Is the empty truck bed photo taken at 10PM or 4AM?

Why would the accused wear a disguise driving past surveillance cameras more than once on the night of the murder? Did he think that he would blend in? Surely there is a second set of photos with bodies in the back of his truck ... that were not released once the murders were solved.

What if we assume that investigators knew from the outset that this was a murder investigation?

I just threw it out there since when remembering the post from Dangeross who saw a similar truck with a blonde man driving. There was also a comment on a another forum I don't think I can mention here about a similar truck also seen on the way to/from Crossfield (might've been Dangeross commented in another forum also for all I know).

I'm grasping at straws really and going backwards and to the beginning at bit. That's the only reason I put the idea out there, trying to see any connections somehow. My initial thought, was he might've disguised himself if he was scouting out the L house, so any family members driving by him wouldn't recognize him - but this doesn't work because they'd recognize the truck, so doesn't make sense for him to do this.

However, if he did don a blonde wig (again hypothetical) because he worried about being seen by any witnesses LE would would've announced to the public to be on the lookout for the truck with a blonde man driving which would be a red herring and DG could slide by off the radar a little more. I don't know if I believe he did this, again just brainstorming here.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think anyone with the foresight to bring a disguise along (blonde wig) would also have the foresight not to drive a distinctive old Ford truck that could be traced back to him.

IMO

Yeah, totally! It does defy the purpose for sure, why cover yourself up when the truck sticks out like a sore thumb. But still putting it out there just. in. case. lol! He seems to be smart one minute, then do something stupid the next, people are funny that way.

 

[Slebby]

Yeah, totally! It does defy the purpose for sure, why cover yourself up when the truck sticks out like a sore thumb. But still putting it out there just. in. case. lol! He seems to be smart one minute, then do something stupid the next, people are funny that way.

Yes, I keep hearing how smart he is. But
The man has a a criminal record for committing some ordinary crime. He sounds like he had some academic smarts at one point in his life, but wasn't so smart to be above cheating in school and getting kicked out. He has something of an aptitude for science. But that's it. Sometimes we make him sound like a criminal genius but IMO that's giving him way too much credit.