Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I agree. There could be a body buried at the bottom of my back yard right now and I wouldn't know it.

Farm properties are not perfect squares of perfect tillable land. In real life, there are groves of trees, sloughs, rocky areas. Back on our family farm, it would have been easy for anyone to dump bodies in water or partially bury them, and I'm sure we would have never found them.

If I was desperately wanting to get rid of bodies and avoid being identified as a killer, I'd be less worried about finding the perfect 6 foot deep burial site or chemical disposal method than about distancing myself from the crime.

IMHO

But then it begs the question, why move the bodies at all? You have to think deeper than KISS because taking the bodies is no longer keeping it simple.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Not sure I'm allowed to post this or not….it's old news, just re-visiting….the area described in the other forum from a poster who saw the same truck said the truck was going Westbound on Hwy 12 at 4:30am in the morning on July 5th. Looking at maps, Hwy 12 goes right by Gull Lake. Hwy 2 from Airdrie goes right through Crossfield leads right up to Hwy 12 and if you go left (Westbound) you go right by Gull Lake.

Do any locals know the driving time? Seems far, but maps are deceiving. Anyone know about Gull Lake? Looks huge. Trying to think of areas he might've placed victims.

 

[Slebby]

But then it begs the question, why move the bodies at all? You have to think deeper than KISS because taking the bodies is no longer keeping it simple.

I agree. Taking the bodies is puzzling. I can only think of two explanations. Either he hopes to make it seem that the Ls had disappeared (either part of their "moving to Mexico" plan, or that they skipped out of town one step ahead of people they owe money)

Or he simply believed that, if the trail somehow led back to him, it would be harder to prove they were dead if no bodies could be found.

IMO

 

[Female]

Not sure I'm allowed to post this or not….it's old news, just re-visiting….the area described in the other forum from a poster who saw the same truck said the truck was going Westbound on Hwy 12 at 4:30am in the morning on July 5th. Looking at maps, Hwy 12 goes right by Gull Lake. Hwy 2 from Airdrie goes right through Crossfield leads right up to Hwy 12 and if you go left (Westbound) you go right by Gull Lake.

Do any locals know the driving time? Seems far, but maps are deceiving. Anyone know about Gull Lake? Looks huge. Trying to think of areas he might've placed victims.

Gull Lake is a very shallow lake and very populated with summer cottages, camping and a community. The main point being it is very shallow. Driving distance from Airdrie would be about 1.5hrs depending on traffic and speed driven.

 

[Slebby]

Not sure I'm allowed to post this or not….it's old news, just re-visiting….the area described in the other forum from a poster who saw the same truck said the truck was going Westbound on Hwy 12 at 4:30am in the morning on July 5th. Looking at maps, Hwy 12 goes right by Gull Lake. Hwy 2 from Airdrie goes right through Crossfield leads right up to Hwy 12 and if you go left (Westbound) you go right by Gull Lake.

Do any locals know the driving time? Seems far, but maps are deceiving. Anyone know about Gull Lake? Looks huge. Trying to think of areas he might've placed victims.

I'm familiar with the area. I'd be inclined to believe a body dump somewhere on the way to Gull Lake rather than a body dump into the lake.
IMO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, I keep hearing how smart he is. But
The man has a a criminal record for committing some ordinary crime. He sounds like he had some academic smarts at one point in his life, but wasn't so smart to be above cheating in school and getting kicked out. He has something of an aptitude for science. But that's it. Sometimes we make him sound like a criminal genius but IMO that's giving him way too much credit.

ITA, I toss the word smart around loosely. I'm not so sure he's a genius either and I'm with ya, I don't like to give him or any criminals for that matter that kind of credit. I mean Einstein is considered a genius, I don't think DG is. He might be intellectual or have a niche for science like you say, but he might be a terrible unorganized planner, not a hard worker and not so swift with other things. I'm curious what LE has found in regards to paper trails, this might give us some insight into how he thinks or what he's done all these years.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Gull Lake is a very shallow lake and very populated with summer cottages, camping and a community. The main point being it is very shallow. Driving distance from Airdrie would be about 1.5hrs depending on traffic and speed driven.

Okay thanks Female So scratch that one off... Back to the drawing board!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm familiar with the area. I'd be inclined to believe a body dump somewhere on the way to Gull Lake rather than a body dump into the lake.
IMO

Thanks Slebby, anything landmarks or anything jump out at you if someone was driving up there? Might be too far out of DG's comfort zone to go 1.5 hrs out of the way, but who knows. Sorry my posts might bore people on this topic, I'm stuck on locations where the victims might be right now. Want them found (if they are somewhere and not completely 'disappeared' by other means).

 

[Slebby]

Thanks Slebby, anything landmarks or anything jump out at you if someone was driving up there? Might be too far out of DG's comfort zone to go 1.5 hrs out of the way, but who knows. Sorry my posts might bore people on this topic, I'm stuck on locations where the victims might be right now. Want them found (if they are somewhere and not completely 'disappeared' by other means).

IMO, what is more remarkable is the lack of landmarks in between the landmarks. There are plenty of places, IMO, where a simple dump can be made beside a road - not on a farmer's crop, not where his cattle are grazing but in a ditch or a short way in from the roadside. I do not believe that landowners walk their property that vigilantly. I think it's possible DG either chose a dump site ahead of time or randomly dumped the bodies.

I have occasion to drive north or north and west of Calgary pretty often. There is not a lot of traffic. In the middle of the night or early morning, there is even less traffic.

Not long ago, I drove along the country roads west of Airdrie. There are so many little sloughs, ditches, and areas well treed and bushy. Easy dump locations, IMO. It was so quiet, I'm convinced I could have helped myself to a cow or two if I wanted [emoji2]I was driving a pretty conspicuous luxury vehicle, and made a few stops on side roads. I didn't see a soul, and no one took any interest in me. How much less conspicuous is an old Ford pickup truck?

I'm entertaining a lot of theories, but a simple body dump somewhere remote is probably first on my list. And I'm sorry to say, with the miles of open areas around there, I doubt bodies will ever be found.

IMO

 

[otto]

Not sure I'm allowed to post this or not….it's old news, just re-visiting….the area described in the other forum from a poster who saw the same truck said the truck was going Westbound on Hwy 12 at 4:30am in the morning on July 5th. Looking at maps, Hwy 12 goes right by Gull Lake. Hwy 2 from Airdrie goes right through Crossfield leads right up to Hwy 12 and if you go left (Westbound) you go right by Gull Lake.

Do any locals know the driving time? Seems far, but maps are deceiving. Anyone know about Gull Lake? Looks huge. Trying to think of areas he might've placed victims.

It is 150 km, or 100 miles, from Airdrie to the Red Deer area. Police were at the Airdrie acreage on Friday, July 4 and confiscated the truck that evening.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Thanks Slebby, anything landmarks or anything jump out at you if someone was driving up there? Might be too far out of DG's comfort zone to go 1.5 hrs out of the way, but who knows. Sorry my posts might bore people on this topic, I'm stuck on locations where the victims might be right now. Want them found (if they are somewhere and not completely 'disappeared' by other means).

LE originally stated that they had a 30 day search plan where they would look for the remains in the most likely places... or something of that sort. I will pull the quote when I have more time.

To me, that indicates that LE may have something to point them in specific directions, like evidence from the vehicle, cell phone tracking from towers or apps, location searches from internet history etc.

If 3 bodies were quickly dumped in water, a field, or a ditch somewhere, chances are, something would have turned up by now. If LE thought it were 3 bodies dumped quickly somewhere, I don't think they'd be so quick to discourage the public from looking.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It is 150 km, or 100 miles, from Airdrie to the Red Deer area. Police were at the Airdrie acreage on Friday, July 4 and confiscated the truck that evening.

Thanks for pointing out the date otto, I didn't catch that. I went back to the the forum post, it was posted on 07-05-2014, 12:35 AM and person said they saw at 4:30 this morning (BBM), so looks like he saw it on July 4th morning then, so I got the date wrong. The said poster called the tip in also. Of course this is hearsay so probably not allowed to be on here, not sure what qualifies as rumor/hearsay...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

LE originally stated that they had a 30 day search plan where they would look for the remains in the most likely places... or something of that sort. I will pull the quote when I have more time.

To me, that indicates that LE may have something to point them in specific directions, like evidence from the vehicle, cell phone tracking from towers or apps, location searches from internet history etc.

If 3 bodies were quickly dumped in water, a field, or a ditch somewhere, chances are, something would have turned up by now. If LE thought it were 3 bodies dumped quickly somewhere, I don't think they'd be so quick to discourage the public from looking.

Good points, LE would know so much more on finding a needle in a haystack. I'm probably on a wild goose chase for nothing, but I can't stop sleuthing! :gaah:

 

[otto]

I agree. Taking the bodies is puzzling. I can only think of two explanations. Either he hopes to make it seem that the Ls had disappeared (either part of their "moving to Mexico" plan, or that they skipped out of town one step ahead of people they owe money)

Or he simply believed that, if the trail somehow led back to him, it would be harder to prove they were dead if no bodies could be found.

IMO

In this video, at 2 minutes, police chief Hanson discusses that bad guys are being schooled (CSI shows) on crime scene evidence so more effort is put into hiding the body.

http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=398334

 

[otto]

Thanks for pointing out the date otto, I didn't catch that. I went back to the the forum post, it was posted on 07-05-2014, 12:35 AM and person said they saw at 4:30 this morning (BBM), so looks like he saw it on July 4th morning then, so I got the date wrong. The said poster called the tip in also. Of course this is hearsay so probably not allowed to be on here, not sure what qualifies as rumor/hearsay...

If it was the night of July 3/4, then it's possible that the accused was driving in that area. However, the murders happened on the night of June 29/30, so that would be a long time to keep the bodies. It's possible that the bodies were hidden NE of Airdrie and he was checking on them.

 

[otto]

If there was any evidence on the Airdrie acreage that the bodies had been completely destroyed, why would police support Allen's efforts to search the countryside for bodies?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

If there was any evidence on the Airdrie acreage that the bodies had been completely destroyed, why would police support Allen's efforts to search the countryside for bodies?

Because obviously, whatever evidence found doesn't point to the bodies being completely destroyed. Trace evidence, like for example a charred finger accidentally left behind, means that there is more to find.

 

[LoriMcA]

Yeah, totally! It does defy the purpose for sure, why cover yourself up when the truck sticks out like a sore thumb. But still putting it out there just. in. case. lol! He seems to be smart one minute, then do something stupid the next, people are funny that way.

Yes, I keep hearing how smart he is. But
The man has a a criminal record for committing some ordinary crime. He sounds like he had some academic smarts at one point in his life, but wasn't so smart to be above cheating in school and getting kicked out. He has something of an aptitude for science. But that's it. Sometimes we make him sound like a criminal genius but IMO that's giving him way too much credit.

ITA, I toss the word smart around loosely. I'm not so sure he's a genius either and I'm with ya, I don't like to give him or any criminals for that matter that kind of credit. I mean Einstein is considered a genius, I don't think DG is. He might be intellectual or have a niche for science like you say, but he might be a terrible unorganized planner, not a hard worker and not so swift with other things. I'm curious what LE has found in regards to paper trails, this might give us some insight into how he thinks or what he's done all these years.

JMOO...

I think...and it's only my thinking here....he's a loner or maybe he prefers his own company...for whatever reason he doesn't 'socialize' ...at least as far as we know..and according to reports from neighbours....no one seems to 'know' him...
He was intelligent enough to get into university and go on to start medical training....
So...he obviously has some degree of intelligence....I'll give him that...

BUT...there are 'book smarts' and there are 'street smarts'...

I think he is lacking in the latter....

He has this lengthy criminal record ...gets caught with the meth lab etc...but then he manages to evade the law for SEVEN years ....

He was able to pull off somehow...having a degree and getting a decent job....but then it all falls apart when the 'social' aspect comes into it...ie when he was given a supervisory role over 30+ people...he had another breakdown...

This guy ...seems to be great at making plans....pulling them off to an extent...but when it comes down to the crunch....he can't deal...he doesn't 'think' ie cctv in place...truck being spotted....

Getting as far as first year med school and then cheating...did he think he could just have some fullproof plan *whatever that may have been* & so in his mind...it would obviously work?

It almost seems like...it's all planned out well on paper until a monkey wrench gets thrown in...It's as if he doesn't account in his plan for any 'monkey wrenches'....

I don't know if what I'm saying is making any sense at all...I think his world is black and white...if it works 'on paper' it will simply work. He doesn't factor in what 'could' go wrong & that's when it all goes downhill...and he gets caught...

 

[LoisLane]

I wonder if LE can and does return to the Airdrie acreage to see if anything else stands out after the concluded search of the property. If chemicals or ground disturbance was at all performed by DG could it be possible the fields will show more of a reaction now rather than earlier on? I.e. a roundup application takes time to kill-off the growth.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

JMOO...

I think...and it's only my thinking here....he's a loner or maybe he prefers his own company...for whatever reason he doesn't 'socialize' ...at least as far as we know..and according to reports from neighbours....no one seems to 'know' him...
He was intelligent enough to get into university and go on to start medical training....
So...he obviously has some degree of intelligence....I'll give him that...

BUT...there are 'book smarts' and there are 'street smarts'...

I think he is lacking in the latter....

He has this lengthy criminal record ...gets caught with the meth lab etc...but then he manages to evade the law for SEVEN years ....

He was able to pull off somehow...having a degree and getting a decent job....but then it all falls apart when the 'social' aspect comes into it...ie when he was given a supervisory role over 30+ people...he had another breakdown...

This guy ...seems to be great at making plans....pulling them off to an extent...but when it comes down to the crunch....he can't deal...he doesn't 'think' ie cctv in place...truck being spotted....

Getting as far as first year med school and then cheating...did he think he could just have some fullproof plan *whatever that may have been* & so in his mind...it would obviously work?

It almost seems like...it's all planned out well on paper until a monkey wrench gets thrown in...It's as if he doesn't account in his plan for any 'monkey wrenches'....

I don't know if what I'm saying is making any sense at all...I think his world is black and white...if it works 'on paper' it will simply work. He doesn't factor in what 'could' go wrong & that's when it all goes downhill...and he gets caught...

I agree, he seems to do strange things without thinking. I have also thought there is the possibility he just went to confront AL over whatever was bugging him. Perhaps the argument got out of hand to the pushing shoving point and he did pull a weapon of some sort. Perhaps by then KL and NO were there too and by then he had to take them all out.

So is he a creature of habit? Would he go back to Crossfield by the 2A going north out of Airdrie? Perhaps he still had a storage locker for years. Can you access them at night? Does anyone else check them? Could he have gone home for chemical to put on them so they wouldn't emit odour? I know nothing about storage lockers except they auction them off on TV. Or he could have travelled up the 2A onto a side road of somebody's farm where there is little traffic. There are so many scenarios to what he might have done. But like Lori said....he doesn't seem to think things through. Why does he always get caught? Also how many people walk through scrub brush, he could just have hidden them under brush until somebody happened to walk by in an out of the way place.

Just another idea to ponder upon.