Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[LoriMcA]

My apologies... I am 50(cough)something years old myself and am finally old enough to join the Senior's Centre here in town. I think what I was trying to impress was that there aren't residents at the Garland residence who would be hard on a septic system in terms of lengthy showers and tons of laundry or throwing miscellaneous plastic objects and facecloths down the toilet as a young family would. Speaking from experience..haha!

hehe...believe me...no offence *nor any to you!!..just found it funny * was taken in any way...so far the 50s are perty darn good!

I did understand what you were getting at tho too...far less usage than a family with youngsters etc etc...at least I've found it that way since the kids all grew up and left home...haha...I hear ya about the experience...my son when he was little decided his pet turtle needed to go 'swimming' ...3 guesses what he thought a great pool was....good thing Rocky was rescued before he was 'flushed' !:gaah:

 

[deugirtni]

I have read it more than once that he is considered 'a genius', but I'm just not seeing it; I wonder why/where that came from? He cheated at school.. he was apparently in med school, but so are many others, and I don't think all of them are considered geniuses just for being there? Or is it because he was able to evade LE and live a life under a stolen identity for so long? And also, sounds like he had a couple of nervous break-down type of events.. so where's the genius part?

Yes, I keep hearing how smart he is. But
The man has a a criminal record for committing some ordinary crime. He sounds like he had some academic smarts at one point in his life, but wasn't so smart to be above cheating in school and getting kicked out. He has something of an aptitude for science. But that's it. Sometimes we make him sound like a criminal genius but IMO that's giving him way too much credit.

 

[LoisLane]

I have read it more than once that he is considered 'a genius', but I'm just not seeing it; I wonder why/where that came from? He cheated at school.. he was apparently in med school, but so are many others, and I don't think all of them are considered geniuses just for being there? Or is it because he was able to evade LE and live a life under a stolen identity for so long? And also, sounds like he had a couple of nervous break-down type of events.. so where's the genius part?

DG was referred to as a genius from a judge in her court ruling. I don't have quick access right now to post the link of that court document. Here is a Calgary Herald article that touches on it.

http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10005813

Found it.... http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/...2005/03/03/garland-v-m-n-r-2005-tcc-176.shtml

Actually, now that I read the last link I do not see the term "genius" must be in another one, I will keep looking.

 

[otto]

I think there are case histories that demonstrate it is not. I think even the G relative that was shot and saved allegedly by a breast implant demonstrates that bringing a weapon, and pulling the weapon doesn't completely prove intent to every court's satisfaction.

That's a very strange story to have in the family ... that an adult child of one of the victims was shot a few years ago ... now her father, his wife, and their grandson are deceased. Not very many people are so closely associated with guns that they are shot during a financial dispute, yet the daughter of Alvin Liknes lives that life.

 

[otto]

And I see a number of large bin like receptacles inside the greenhouse too. Is that investigator wearing protective gear?

When comparing the size of the rain barrels behind the greenhouse, and the pots inside the greenhouse, it's clear that there is a difference in size ... one that would suggest the "receptacles" in the green house are for plants.

 

[otto]

I don't mean to be sarcastic, honest.. but I can't help saying.. perhaps there are TWO old green F150s around?

Two 1991-93 green ford F150s in mint condition driving the backroads around Airdrie? I would be surprised if that were true.

 

[LoisLane]

Two 1991-93 green ford F150s in mint condition driving the backroads around Airdrie? I would be surprised if that were true.

I did pass a similar truck the weekend the truck photo was released. It was on a used car sales lot in Armstrong. I looked up the advertisement when I got home but it wasn't a complete match. But it was in great exterior condition.

It was a 2000
http://www.chucksautosales.com/inventory/Used-2000-Ford-Ranger-QUAD-CAB/251716

Also, I was wondering the accuracy in the age of the truck. Could it also be a 1994/95?

 

[otto]

I think it is creepy that a perp would not be charged with whatever charges were applicable to the crime(s) he/she committed, just because LE feels that 'if' convicted of the major crime, there would be no longer term for the perhaps lesser crimes.. to me, all of it should be on a criminal's record so as to give a better picture of what the criminal is capable of, etc., in future, after the 25 years, or during parole hearings, or just later after it's no longer in the news. Also, I am having a really difficult time comprehending that the sentence is the same for the guy who plans to kill his pesky neighbour and follows through with it, as it is for the pig farmers who lure perhaps 50 women to their horrible deaths. Wow.

In terms of a home invasion mass murder, there are probably a lot of charges that can be laid, but they all relate to actions leading to first degree murder charges. If first degree murder cannot be proven, the rest of the charges fall apart. If first degree murder charges can be proven, the consequence is prison with no eligibility for parole for 25 years. Sentences that are for 300 years, when a lifespan is typically less than 100 years, seem bizarre.

There was a change in law recently that allows for consecutive sentences, but that is new and I don't know of any cases where it has been imposed as a sentence. Typically one murder results in 25 prior to parole eligibility, and sentences are served concurrently ... 10 people or one, same sentence, because it's always been the case in Canada that there is hope for rehabilitation, and that is assessed after 25 years.

 

[otto]

That is a slippery slope for sure. Mental illness is not bad behaviour....it's mental illness. DG has ADD. I think it's easy to forget that he has some challenges considering the situation and LE's circumstantial evidence. Reading the below article, I'm confused as to how someone who has trouble focusing on things and seeing things through, as is most often the case with ADD managed all of this in such a planned manner, and in a very tight time period. Totally baffled. :thinking:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm

Douglas Garland has mental health issues that were identified in his parole documents. It was believed that because he was over 40, and had never had a violent incident against another person (never mind the break & enter and complete disregard for honesty & integrity), he was safe for parole six months into his 39 month sentence. That was 2001.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

In terms of a home invasion mass murder, there are probably a lot of charges that can be laid, but they all relate to actions leading to first degree murder charges. If first degree murder cannot be proven, the rest of the charges fall apart. If first degree murder charges can be proven, the consequence is prison with no eligibility for parole for 25 years. Sentences that are for 300 years, when a lifespan is typically less than 100 years, seem bizarre.

There was a change in law recently that allows for consecutive sentences, but that is new and I don't know of any cases where it has been imposed as a sentence. Typically one murder results in 25 prior to parole eligibility, and sentences are served concurrently ... 10 people or one, same sentence, because it's always been the case in Canada that there is hope for rehabilitation, and that is assessed after 25 years.

Travis Baumgartner sentenced to 40 years without parole for multiple murders.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

....or maybe because he does have trouble maintaining focus and doesn't sit still for long....that's another characteristic. I doubt that LE were 'actively' looking for DG when he was in BC ... IMO, LE knows they'll eventually turn up...somewhere, somehow...which is basically what happened...so it really wasn't too hard to hide. I don't think DG had to plan the identity theft, I think someone else gave him his credentials and he used them. As far as planning this murder...that remains to be seen and decided upon in court. As Stan Laurel mentioned, "innocent until proven guilty".

If DG was "diagnosed" with ADD, then he very likely has ADD. If he has ADD, then this is a pretty big thing for him to do...I suppose it could be part of the 'hyper-focus' symptom of ADD. ADD may explain why he does things that aren't too bright...like reuse the stolen identity, get his truck on CCTV as often as he did, and show up back at the acreage when he was out on bail. IMO, it looks like he's got something not quite right up there. It's definitely going to be an interesting trial that's for sure.

I suspect we'll be hearing about a misdiagnosis in the future.

 

[otto]

My apologies... I am 50(cough)something years old myself and am finally old enough to join the Senior's Centre here in town. I think what I was trying to impress was that there aren't residents at the Garland residence who would be hard on a septic system in terms of lengthy showers and tons of laundry or throwing miscellaneous plastic objects and facecloths down the toilet as a young family would. Speaking from experience..haha!

Exactly. The septic tank should be robust and well functioning. Putting caustic substances down the bath tub drain slows the bacterial process in the septic tank, meaning that the tank is less efficient; less robust. If enough caustic substances are washed down the drain, the bacteria in the septic tank will be killed, and the septic field will fail. I have no idea how long it would take before the problem was detected ... but I suspect that it would be something that had to be fixed when detected.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Well otto here is my thoughts on a septic system :shame: my first hand experience with a failed septic system and what it looks like. Not sure if many people know this but there is a second type of septic system which is called a filter bed system as opposed to the standard septic with runs of tubes in the ground to disperse matter. We had a filter bed system due to space constrictions and not having room for runs of tubes. We had grey water (laundry etc) going into the septic and it created what is called a bio mass which then created sludge in the filter bed area and the liquid could not filter down into the ground properly so it came upwards. Not to suggest Garlands have this type of system likely a holding tank or conventional septic system with runs of tubes but just to demonstrate what grey laundry water can do to a system. Personally I believe the filter system is flawed compared to the conventional septic. Anywho that is my cant sleep post for today. fftobed:

 

[Tinkerbel1]

:goodpost:

I think it is creepy that a perp would not be charged with whatever charges were applicable to the crime(s) he/she committed, just because LE feels that 'if' convicted of the major crime, there would be no longer term for the perhaps lesser crimes.. to me, all of it should be on a criminal's record so as to give a better picture of what the criminal is capable of, etc., in future, after the 25 years, or during parole hearings, or just later after it's no longer in the news. Also, I am having a really difficult time comprehending that the sentence is the same for the guy who plans to kill his pesky neighbour and follows through with it, as it is for the pig farmers who lure perhaps 50 women to their horrible deaths. Wow.

:goodpost:

 

[Krystine]

That is a slippery slope for sure. Mental illness is not bad behaviour....it's mental illness. DG has ADD. I think it's easy to forget that he has some challenges considering the situation and LE's circumstantial evidence. Reading the below article, I'm confused as to how someone who has trouble focusing on things and seeing things through, as is most often the case with ADD managed all of this in such a planned manner, and in a very tight time period. Totally baffled. :thinking:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm

Is ADD classified as a mental illness, or a learning disability?
It can be as simple as being easily distracted by others' voices, music or tv in the background. In my case I had great difficulty in university where it was nearly impossible to get away from others' noise or finding a quite spot to study...even the library was noisy. Other students 'talking over' the professors would cause me a lot of grief...lectures were completely diluted... Most of what I learned I learned in the privacy of home.
My kids, however, studied with their loud music full blast and all did very well in high school and Uni.
I still find it difficult to focus when there are several convos going on around me.
My brain doesn't know what to listen to, and can't tune out. I work best in an office of my own, with a door that closes, not an open office.
It made me wonder what kinds of challenges DG faced when he went to U of A and then dropped out. Many intelligent people have to find their own ways to cope.
Anyway, my point is that there are many faces of ADD. It doesn't necessarily mean an individual can't focus or see things through on a daily basis.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I suspect we'll be hearing about a misdiagnosis in the future.

:flu: Do you think so? Never thought of that. :thinking: Hmmm, I wonder what Psychiatrist would stick there neck out in this situation to override another psychiatrist's diagnosis? I suppose the Prosecution could move for an assessment to be done with the Crown's forensic psychiatry team...I happen to know one of them...extremely intelligent...if there was a misdiagnosis, I'm sure it'll be discovered. Interesting point. God knows a lot of that has happened. Again, should make for a very interesting trial.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Is ADD classified as a mental illness, or a learning disability?
It can be as simple as inability to being easily distracted by others' voices, music or tv in the background. In my case I had great difficulty in university where it was nearly impossible to get away from others noise and finding a quite spot to study. Other students talking over the professors would cause me a lot of grief...lectures were completely diluted... Most of what I learned I learned in the privacy of home.
It made me wonder what kinds of challenges DG faced when he went to U of A and then dropped out. Many intelligent people have to find their own ways to cope.
Anyway, my point is that there are many faces of ADD. It doesn't necessarily mean an individual can't focus or see things through on a daily basis.

I believe that ADD is a mental disorder. There are actually imbalances in the chemical dopamine and in some cases, possible frontal lobe damage. So it is a little more than a learning disorder. There's a lot more to it than just being easily distracted unfortunately. Typically when being diagnosed with any mental illness/disorder, there are several criteria that must be present (depending on the assessment requirements), it's not usually based on one behaviour. It is a very real mental impairment. Perhaps if a mental disorder wasn't present in DG, this may not have happened? JMO


Step 1: Causes of ADD/ADHD



Many mental disorders have no exact known cause and ADD/ADHD is no exception. It is believed there are many factors involved in this disorder, and parenting skills had little to do with the cause. Parents can help their children by learning about ADD/ADHD and how their environment may play a part in the success of their treatment. Some of the believed contributing causes are:

Genetics
1.A child with a relative that has ADD/ADHD is four times more likely to be diagnosed with the disorder.
2.Genes that are involved with the brain chemical dopamine are being studied, as people with ADD/ADHD appear to have lower levels of dopamine.
3.There is a particular gene associated with ADD/ADHD which causes children to have thinner brain tissue in the attention areas of the brain. These differences are resolved, however, as the child becomes an adult.
4.Genes are being studied all over the world and the information is being collected by the ADHD Molecular Genetics Network.3

Brain Injury In a very small percentage of children head injuries may cause ADD. These injuries could be from toxins or injuries that are physical, before or after birth. Experts believe ADD/ADHD is caused from possible damage to the front lobe.4

http://www.mahalo.com/how-to-diagnose-add-adhd/

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Douglas Garland has mental health issues that were identified in his parole documents. It was believed that because he was over 40, and had never had a violent incident against another person (never mind the break & enter and complete disregard for honesty & integrity), he was safe for parole six months into his 39 month sentence. That was 2001.

?? I'm sorry Otto, I'm not getting your point. Now DG is over 50 and has been charged with a violent incident against another person(s). What's the connection...cause I'm totally missing it.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

That's a very strange story to have in the family ... that an adult child of one of the victims was shot a few years ago ... now her father, his wife, and their grandson are deceased. Not very many people are so closely associated with guns that they are shot during a financial dispute, yet the daughter of Alvin Liknes lives that life.

Agreed. There are a lot of strange stories in that family.:worms:

 

[otto]

Is ADD classified as a mental illness, or a learning disability?
It can be as simple as being easily distracted by others' voices, music or tv in the background. In my case I had great difficulty in university where it was nearly impossible to get away from others' noise or finding a quite spot to study...even the library was noisy. Other students 'talking over' the professors would cause me a lot of grief...lectures were completely diluted... Most of what I learned I learned in the privacy of home.
My kids, however, studied with their loud music full blast and all did very well in high school and Uni.
I still find it difficult to focus when there are several convos going on around me.
My brain doesn't know what to listen to, and can't tune out. I work best in an office of my own, with a door that closes, not an open office.
It made me wonder what kinds of challenges DG faced when he went to U of A and then dropped out. Many intelligent people have to find their own ways to cope.
Anyway, my point is that there are many faces of ADD. It doesn't necessarily mean an individual can't focus or see things through on a daily basis.

ADD was replaced with the term ADHD in the 1990s. ADD (the old term) and ADHD (the new term) are the same thing. Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is the correct term today.

By Chris Iliades, MD | Medically reviewed by Lindsey Marcellin, MD, MPH

"Society first heard the term ADD in 1980; today it's ADHD.

• 1980. The third edition of the manual uses the name "attention deficit disorder" (ADD). ·
• 1994. The manual's fourth edition recognizes the disorder as "attention deficit hyperactivity disorder," with three subgroups."

"Today we know that younger children are more likely to show hyperactivity ADHD symptoms and older children or adults are more likely to have symptoms of inattention. For most people with ADHD, symptoms are mixed and they change over time," explains Hunter.

The three subtypes of ADHD recognized today are:
•Predominantly hyperactive-impulsive
•Predominantly inattentive
•Combined hyperactive and inattentive (mixed type)"

http://www.everydayhealth.com/adhd-awareness/an-adhd-timeline.aspx

"This is a disorder of chronic, long-standing, unchanging disorganization, inattention, and forgetfulness," said Dr. David Goodman, a psychiatrist and director of the Adult Attention Deficit Disorder Center in Baltimore, Maryland. "A lot of people don't know they have this condition and just kind of muddle through their lives."

http://www.everydayhealth.com/adhd/adult-adhd.aspx