Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[Tinkerbel1]

<rsbm>

That's it in a nutshell !! Disclosure is not some newsworthy item that is normally reported on because it is simply part of the usual paper push that takes place in each and every trial.

This is true However, there doesn't seem to be much "push" on this paper despite Shane Parker's claim otherwise.

Shane Parker said outside the courtroom at the July 16 court appearance:

"Parker said police feel they can get significant disclosure, but not all of it, out in time for the next court appearance."


http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10035082

At the August 14th court appearance, there had been nothing presented. I find that a little bit curious, especially for standard paperwork. There wasn't even a partial disclosure to Defense.

Although admittedly, the cases are different, MDG's disclosure made it in the usual 30 day period.

Just saying.

 

[kaley]

Does anyone else think it is odd that no details have been released about the body found near Fish Creek Park? I believe the body was found on or around Aug.30?

 

[Krystine]

Does anyone else think it is odd that no details have been released about the body found near Fish Creek Park? I believe the body was found on or around Aug.30?

I think if you go back a few pages, (yesterday) Cherchri provided the obituary.

 

[stan laurel]

It's normal to get snow in September or late Summer in Cowtown but not like this. Though, when work calls and says "take a day off with pay don't risk the drive!" it aint all bad. But this is snow snow not dust snow, and it would be beautiful if not for destroying trees and gardens.

 

[Krystine]

Edmonton had a July flash snowstorm in the mid 80's...with about 3" of soft, wet snow.

 

[stan laurel]

Edmonton had a July flash snowstorm in the mid 80's...with about 3" of soft, wet snow.

flash is the key word,, this is a bing crosby I'm dreaming of a white christmas type snow,, I've been wishing neighbours merry cristmas on my walks.

as for remains being found, lots of moisture in the ground preceding an eventual freeze up causes hoar frost which the ground squeezes up rocks and earth and most anything in freshly disturbed ground. it may provide help not hinder if bodies are buried.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Does anyone else think it is odd that no details have been released about the body found near Fish Creek Park? I believe the body was found on or around Aug.30?

SOP when someone dies of overdose, suicide, or natural causes.

 

[Sillybilly]

I'm married to a lawyer whose law office I've worked in enough to be aware of details of many different cases. It would make sense to you and me that anyone in legal trouble would know their lawyer is their ally and as such, cooperate fully. But in reality - I have seen people make really bad decisions that just compound their problems and cause a lot of aggravation and extra work for their lawyer.
Examples -
Withholding information about fraudulent acts, failing to disclose assets, failing to produce records, failing to appear in court, lying about embarrassing details, lying about previous convictions or legal sanctions. Flat out lying - "no I didn't do it"
I can only guess about reasons not to cooperate. Some things are difficult to admit out loud. Shame, embarrassment, pride, being distrustful by nature, a total lack of remorse.

I'm not speaking directly to the case of DG, I have no idea if he is or is not cooperative, but we can't assume clients always cooperate with counsel.

IMHO

Worked with many lawyers in the past. We all know the old saying that whoever acts as their own lawyer has a fool for a client. DG successfully represented himself in his EI lawsuit .. feather in his cap in that regard could result in an inflated ego wrt legal direction, therefore conflict in how to proceed.

IMO, any reasonably intelligent person knows enough to appear to be polite and cooperative in front of a presiding judge. Doesn't behoove one to be otherwise.

 

[LoisLane]

Here is one of Calgary's recent homicides (Sept. 3). Facts that stand out to me are the Ford truck, body in the passenger seat of the truck, a charge of first degree murder, perp walk, court date Sept. 18, victims' name is Kathy Lynn Reid (37 years old) the man charged is James Edward Kruse (36 years old, he has cooperated with police). The cause of death was also released (Sept. 4) and stated as Reid died of asphyxiation from strangulation. Kruse has history of violence including choking w/intent. Original reports had suggested a suspicious death in a vehicle located at 84st 17ave. SE., the cause of death was originally speculated as a drug overdose which was suggested by Kruse.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1540867/body-found-in-vehicle-in-southeast-calgary/

ETA - I have posted this to show the amount of information that has been released to the public, specifically cause of death.

 

[Slebby]

I'm sure it does fall under 'too boring and normal to report on' in most cases, but in this case where MSM has made a point of previously stating that it was NOT yet delivered, wouldn't it be nice to follow that up when it DID finally get delivered? In probably MOST cases, it is also not reported that the accused HASN'T yet received it. This case is different.

Two points -
One - What is it you would like to see happen? From where, in your opinion, should this information be coming? Do you think it is a. the press, b. DG's defence lawyer, or c. LE/crown prosecutor who should be making these details known to the public, that is, has all discovery been handed over, yes or no, and when it happened.

Two - IMO, the handing over of discovery is an ongoing process, not a one time event. Information comes in continually, is assessed, and is eventually handed over.

The voluminous evidence would include everything from the Parkhill home and the acreage, photos, fingerprint evidence, blood and DNA evidence from the house, truck and acreage, information gleaned regarding the estate sale including kijiji ads and witness statements, CCTV footage, Amber alert tips investigated, which numbered in the hundreds, financial records of the Ls, evidence from cell phones and computers of Ls and DG, call records, interviews with family, friends, neighbors, business associates of the Ls, Os, Gs, information from the LE Mexico trip, and I could go on.

That is not a limited amount of information that can be handed over in a neat package on August 14th or any other particular date thereafter. There is a ton of information to process. LE has to shore up all reasonable doubt, which could be huge (voluminous) in a case where there are no bodies. Hence the need for more time.

IMO, the very nature of this case and the volume of evidence necessitates a slower hand-off of discovery materials. It may not be humanly possible to get the discovery dealt with any quicker. I suspect everyone involved in these legal proceedings, on both sides of the case, know this.

IMHO

 

[stan laurel]

Here is one of Calgary's recent homicides (Sept. 3). Facts that stand out to me are the Ford truck, body in the passenger seat of the truck, a charge of first degree murder, perp walk, court date Sept. 18, victims' name is Kathy Lynn Reid (37 years old) the man charged is James Edward Kruse (36 years old, he has cooperated with police). The cause of death was also released (Sept. 4) and stated as Reid died of asphyxiation from strangulation. Kruse has history of violence including choking w/intent. Original reports had suggested a suspicious death in a vehicle located at 84st 17ave. SE., the cause of death was originally speculated as a drug overdose which was suggested by Kruse.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1540867/body-found-in-vehicle-in-southeast-calgary/

ETA - I have posted this to show the amount of information that has been released to the public, specifically cause of death.

why was his perp walk not down the parade route i wonder?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Here is one of Calgary's recent homicides (Sept. 3). Facts that stand out to me are the Ford truck, body in the passenger seat of the truck, a charge of first degree murder, perp walk, court date Sept. 18, victims' name is Kathy Lynn Reid (37 years old) the man charged is James Edward Kruse (36 years old, he has cooperated with police). The cause of death was also released (Sept. 4) and stated as Reid died of asphyxiation from strangulation. Kruse has history of violence including choking w/intent. Original reports had suggested a suspicious death in a vehicle located at 84st 17ave. SE., the cause of death was originally speculated as a drug overdose which was suggested by Kruse.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1540867/body-found-in-vehicle-in-southeast-calgary/

ETA - I have posted this to show the amount of information that has been released to the public, specifically cause of death.

It is the exact same amount of information released in this case... except for the cause of death... for obvious reasons.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Does anyone else think it is odd that no details have been released about the body found near Fish Creek Park? I believe the body was found on or around Aug.30?

I don't, especially if it was a suicide or perhaps as a result of a medical emergency.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Edmonton had a July flash snowstorm in the mid 80's...with about 3" of soft, wet snow.

I remember that

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Two points -
One - What is it you would like to see happen? From where, in your opinion, should this information be coming? Do you think it is a. the press, b. DG's defence lawyer, or c. LE/crown prosecutor who should be making these details known to the public, that is, has all discovery been handed over, yes or no, and when it happened.

Two - IMO, the handing over of discovery is an ongoing process, not a one time event. Information comes in continually, is assessed, and is eventually handed over.

The voluminous evidence would include everything from the Parkhill home and the acreage, photos, fingerprint evidence, blood and DNA evidence from the house, truck and acreage, information gleaned regarding the estate sale including kijiji ads and witness statements, CCTV footage, Amber alert tips investigated, which numbered in the hundreds, financial records of the Ls, evidence from cell phones and computers of Ls and DG, call records, interviews with family, friends, neighbors, business associates of the Ls, Os, Gs, information from the LE Mexico trip, and I could go on.

That is not a limited amount of information that can be handed over in a neat package on August 14th or any other particular date thereafter. There is a ton of information to process. LE has to shore up all reasonable doubt, which could be huge (voluminous) in a case where there are no bodies. Hence the need for more time.

IMO, the very nature of this case and the volume of evidence necessitates a slower hand-off of discovery materials. It may not be humanly possible to get the discovery dealt with any quicker. I suspect everyone involved in these legal proceedings, on both sides of the case, know this.

IMHO

Agreed, however, there wasn't one piece of paper or one data file handed over by the August 14th date. Nada. Despite the Prosecution's statement of intent in doing so. If there's so much info, what took so long? People are waiting for it, the balance of at least one life is hanging on it...its important information. 30 days to get the ball rolling is pretty SOP...still, it wasn't initiated. Kind of odd IMO

 

[news.talk]

Agreed, however, there wasn't one piece of paper or one data file handed over by the August 14th date. Nada. Despite the Prosecution's statement of intent in doing so. If there's so much info, what took so long? People are waiting for it, the balance of at least one life is hanging on it...its important information. 30 days to get the ball rolling is pretty SOP...still, it wasn't initiated. Kind of odd IMO

What others and myself have tried to explain, it is not *odd* at all. Spend a little time in criminal court and you will see that the wheels of justice in Canada tend to move slowly.

 

[Cherchri]

Anyone planning to attend next week? I will be there and would love to meet up with any web sleuths who may be attending - perhaps in the coffee shop in the courthouse, beforehand.

 

[LoisLane]

It is the exact same amount of information released in this case... except for the cause of death... for obvious reasons.

Can you expand on the obvious reasons? Is it because they have a body? If the bodies of Kathy, Alvin, and Nathan were or are recovered will that be released to the public as promptly as this was released?

 

[LoisLane]

why was his perp walk not down the parade route i wonder?

Good point! I was just thinking of a few similarities and differences. With DG he was wearing the t-shirt and jeans (Paramount Resources t-shirt), Kruse is wearing the white disposable jump suit. The video of Kruse shows him entering the door and we see the back of him. DG was exiting the door and did the walk, we had a front view of him. We also have a shot of Kruse facing a wall which looks like an interior shot. Both are reported from Global. I wonder about the clothing, is that optional or were the clothes DG was wearing in fact his? Maybe the dissection of DG's wardrobe raised concern and now they wear jumpsuits. Maybe the clothes of Kruse were taken in as evidence. Why wouldn't DG's clothes be taken in as evidence? Some suggested the clothing DG was wearing was supplied to him by authorities. That darn t-shirt!

http://globalnews.ca/video/1452425/douglas-garland-walked-into-calgary-arrest-processing-unit/

 

[Cherchri]

Can you expand on the obvious reasons? Is it because they have a body? If the bodies of Kathy, Alvin, and Nathan were or are recovered will that be released to the public as promptly as this was released?

In the case of the woman murdered in the truck (Kathy Reid), her murderer called 911 and was on the scene. So that would be one of the reasons IMO. Having a body means the ME can almost always establish cause of death. So that would be another reason IMO. Having no bodies means no-one is able to establish how the victims died unless the perp confesses. In the case of DG, he has not confessed nor has he revealed what he did with his victims. Anything LE and the ME have been able to garner ito evidence, is therefore going to be presented as evidence at his trial. Sharing information on evidence is like showing your hand in a game of poker IMO.