Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[otto]

The kind you don't want people to know about :floorlaugh:

I think there is no factory. I think it's a pretend company. I think he hoped to make something of it, but I absolutely do not believe that there was $2.5 million annual revenue, and I do not believe there was a factory with 6 employees.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I agree. It's one thing to claim you have compassion for everyone, but would that hold out if it was your child and parents brutally murdered?

Conversely, would you be so cold if your child murdered someone?

 

[Salem]

Please stop with the personal posts. This is about Nathan and his grandparents. Please get back on track here.

Salem

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It's been suggested that Garland is currently involved in illegal drug activities. It has been suggested that even if this is going on, police would not lay charges because he is charged with murdering three people at a completely different location. That is not how it works.

If there is any evidence of illegal drug activity on the Airdrie acreage, Garland would be charged. He has not been charged, which means there is no evidence of illegal drug activity. It does not mean that there is evidence of illegal drug activity and that police have decided not to lay charges because Garland is charged with a completely different crime at a different location.

Not so quick... the identity theft charges were stayed because...

"Garland was originally arrested on identity theft charges but Crown Prosecutor, Shane Parker, says he has requested those charges be stayed.

“The evidence from the impersonation will be used as part of the murder case so there was no need to have separate proceedings,” said Parker."


Read more: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-p...-case-of-missing-trio-1.1946871#ixzz3DFuMXYiV

"Ross said he wasn’t told by Crown prosecutor Shane Parker why the allegations of identity theft and possession of a bank card obtained by crime were stayed.

But the lawyer said he anticipates evidence surrounding the seizing of a card in the name of a Cardston teen who died in 1980 will be called during any murder hearings."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/08/05/calgary-cops-in-mexico-for-missing-family-case

If any drug related evidence will also be presented during any murder hearings, it only stands to reason that related charges will not be forthcoming. I am assuming there is some sort of law or protocol when lesser crimes are part of a larger, more serious charge.

 

[Sillybilly]

I am assuming there is some sort of law or protocol when lesser crimes are part of a larger, more serious charge.

<rsbm>

I'm pretty sure there is, and I'm wracking my brain trying to recall what other WS case it was discussed in.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This brings up something else that I noticed from his earlier arrest for same. Of course, nobody knows if this is a lie or not, but did anyone happen to notice this statement from the court documents from his EI judgement? (BBM):



http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/tcc/doc/2005/2005tcc176/2005tcc176.html

First point.. is that ADD is treated with amphetamines. He said he was producing his own. I don't think we have seen any evidence or statements reporting that he was involved with the underworld, or hung out with unsavory characters, or was involved with selling street drugs?

Second point.. is that.. has anyone noticed how this fellow seems to have extremely bad luck when it comes to people calling in tips about him? In the same referenced court document above, it states that, "This somehow came to the attention of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). In 1992, they raided Mr. Garland's parents' farm." He was subsequently charged and got bail, then took off to BC, assumed a false identity and then he was again anonymously reported via a tip to crimestoppers, albeit 7 years later. Then this summer there is apparently a gruesome multiple homicide in a home in the area in which a green truck was seen, which matched his truck, and so this tip was also called in, and he was subsequently arrested. I wonder if all 3 tips could have been from the same individual, as each reportable instance came to her/his attention?

I agree, he does have bad luck in regards to him getting tipped off to LE, very suspicious.

Sorry, I have to counter your comment about the amphetamines. I believe an article I read described it as a 'sophisticated' drug set up (link: http://o.canada.com/news/national/b...w-and-mental-health-concerns-documents-reveal) so I myself am doubtful this was for self-medicating his ADHD.

And then he was charged with FDA - 39(1) Traffic in a controlled drug Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert in BC in the 90s...

I guess I also thought he might have connections because he was also busted with a stolen semi in BC and how in the world do you re-sell that in pre-internet days (although this was in 1998 just went the desktop computers and the internet were *just* starting to be used in homes by home users). My thoughts were he must've known someone he could sell to. While in jail before he fled, he might've learned some stuff and met some people, again purely JMO.

 

[otto]

Not so quick... the identity theft charges were stayed because...

"Garland was originally arrested on identity theft charges but Crown Prosecutor, Shane Parker, says he has requested those charges be stayed.

&#8220;The evidence from the impersonation will be used as part of the murder case so there was no need to have separate proceedings,&#8221; said Parker."


Read more: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-p...-case-of-missing-trio-1.1946871#ixzz3DFuMXYiV

"Ross said he wasn&#8217;t told by Crown prosecutor Shane Parker why the allegations of identity theft and possession of a bank card obtained by crime were stayed.

But the lawyer said he anticipates evidence surrounding the seizing of a card in the name of a Cardston teen who died in 1980 will be called during any murder hearings."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/08/05/calgary-cops-in-mexico-for-missing-family-case

If any drug related evidence will also be presented during any murder hearings, it only stands to reason that related charges will not be forthcoming. I am assuming there is some sort of law or protocol when lesser crimes are part of a larger, more serious charge.

There's a difference. Garland was charged with identify theft, and the charges were stayed. He has not been charged with illegal drug activity. That's the difference. If there was evidence of illegal drug activity, Garland would have been charged. He hasn't been, so illegal drug activity is a non-issue.

 

[otto]

<rsbm>

I'm pretty sure there is, and I'm wracking my brain trying to recall what other WS case it was discussed in.

Garland wasn't charged with kidnapping, or tampering with dead bodies in addition to being charged with murder because the lesser charges relate to the murder charges. Illegal drug activity at a completely different location is not part of the murder charges, and would result in separate charges.

 

[stan laurel]

<rsbm>

I'm pretty sure there is, and I'm wracking my brain trying to recall what other WS case it was discussed in.

Back in the day, wayyyyy before Corner Gas, Canadian TV had that certain Canadiana that tried being American TV but didn't ever quite get the feel i.e., Front Page Challenge, Definition, and this gem This Is The Law where a panel had to figure out what law was being broken either by the fool or the law (great premise but oh sooo Canadiana). On one particular episode, a man is seen walking naked in his living room,, a person calls it in and the caller is arrested.

On another show, the police have a warrant for stolen goods and come across another crime at the address but can't act on it because it bears no resemblance to what the warrant was sanctioned for.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

There's a difference. Garland was charged with identify theft, and the charges were stayed. He has not been charged with illegal drug activity. That's the difference. If there was evidence of illegal drug activity, Garland would have been charged. He hasn't been, so illegal drug activity is a non-issue.

The charges were stayed because the identity theft evidence will be presented at the murder trial, not because there was no evidence of identity theft. There is no point in charging and staying the charges if there was evidence of anything illegal like drug manufacturing expected to be presented at trial as well.

I am researching "Merger Doctrine" right now...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Back in the day, wayyyyy before Corner Gas, Canadian TV had that certain Canadiana that tried being American TV but didn't ever quite get the feel i.e., Front Page Challenge, Definition, and this gem This Is The Law where a panel had to figure out what law was being broken either by the fool or the law (great premise but oh sooo Canadiana). On one particular episode, a man is seen walking naked in his living room,, a person calls it in and the caller is arrested.

On another show, the police have a warrant for stolen goods and come across another crime at the address but can't act on it because it bears no resemblance to what the warrant was sanctioned for.

I remember that show... didn't they always have a video of someone doing something wrong, and the cop always came in with the baton to haul the perp away... then the panel had to guess.

 

[otto]

The charges were stayed because the identity theft evidence will be presented at the murder trial, not because there was no evidence of identity theft. There is no point in charging and staying the charges if there was evidence of anything illegal like drug manufacturing expected to be presented at trial as well.

I am researching "Merger Doctrine" right now...

The charges were stayed, meaning they will be renewed at a later date. In this case, they will be renewed during the murder trial. The prosecution cannot introduce evidence about illegal drug activity at an Airdrie property during a murder trial because there is no connection between the two. Furthermore, unless they bring charges, they cannot introduce evidence.

I don't understand why anyone wants to believe that there was illegal drug activity on the Airdrie property when there is absolutely nothing on which to base this idea.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There's a difference. Garland was charged with identify theft, and the charges were stayed. He has not been charged with illegal drug activity. That's the difference. If there was evidence of illegal drug activity, Garland would have been charged. He hasn't been, so illegal drug activity is a non-issue.

I'd really like to know official processes of the law and Crown in regards to charges trumping other charges, or what charges get consideration for inclusion of evidence and if they do combine charges or keep them as separate entities in relation to one suspect... It would be nice for all of us to know this, it's quite interesting.

So I'm exploring all options here - let's say drug involvement is off the table in relation to DG. What does that leave us for him to occupy his time (and maybe income?) these last 14 years or so?

Maybe he was only involved with under the table businesses/shell companies and money laundering - this could be considered as evidence with this case if it involved AL.

And if not that, maybe DG simply graduated over night (doubtful though IMO) from being a thief/drug maker to a murderer?

And if not that, maybe he was extremely focused on creating ideas, patents and prototypes and this consumed his time and did nothing illegal?

Or maybe he lived an honest, humble quiet farm life and kept to himself?

Could be any really. I'd really like to hear what other sleuthers think he might've been up to...

 

[otto]

I'd really like to know official processes of the law and Crown in regards to charges trumping other charges, or what charges get consideration for inclusion of evidence and if they do combine charges or keep them as separate entities in relation to one suspect... It would be nice for all of us to know this, it's quite interesting.

So I'm exploring all options here - let's say drug involvement is off the table in relation to DG. What does that leave us for him to occupy his time (and maybe income?) these last 14 years or so?

Maybe he was only involved with under the table businesses/shell companies and money laundering - this could be considered as evidence with this case if it involved AL.

And if not that, maybe DG simply graduated over night (doubtful though IMO) from being a thief/drug maker to a murderer?

And if not that, maybe he was extremely focused on creating ideas, patents and prototypes and this consumed his time and did nothing illegal?

Or maybe he lived an honest, humble quiet farm life and kept to himself?

Could be any really. I'd really like to hear what other sleuthers think he might've been up to...

I doubt that he was an upstanding citizen between his arrests. In fact, we know that police are investing whether Garland is responsible for another murder. In between his illegal activities, he probably helped out around the acreage. He also spent some time working for Alvin.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

The charges were stayed, meaning they will be renewed at a later date. In this case, they will be renewed during the murder trial. The prosecution cannot introduce evidence about illegal drug activity at an Airdrie property during a murder trial because there is no connection between the two. Furthermore, unless they bring charges, they cannot introduce evidence.

I don't understand why anyone wants to believe that there was illegal drug activity on the Airdrie property when there is absolutely nothing on which to base this idea.

We don't know what, if any drug related evidence was or was not found. There is just speculation given the mention of chemicals in MSM.

The point was, that separate charges for any other illegal activity expected to be presented at any murder trial, isn't going to create any new charges in the short term. One simply can't assert that because there are no current charges related to it, that it *absolutely* means LE found nothing. If there is a renewal of the identity theft charges as you stated, then any new charges can be laid at that time as well.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Back in the day, wayyyyy before Corner Gas, Canadian TV had that certain Canadiana that tried being American TV but didn't ever quite get the feel i.e., Front Page Challenge, Definition, and this gem This Is The Law where a panel had to figure out what law was being broken either by the fool or the law (great premise but oh sooo Canadiana). On one particular episode, a man is seen walking naked in his living room,, a person calls it in and the caller is arrested.

On another show, the police have a warrant for stolen goods and come across another crime at the address but can't act on it because it bears no resemblance to what the warrant was sanctioned for.

Interesting about the warrant technicalities, makes sense.

 

[Sillybilly]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/meth4.htm

Meth Production: The Need for Changing Speed

... Motorcycle gangs such as the Hell's Angels were notorious for producing amphetamines using a chemical normally used to clean swimming pools: phenyl-2-propanone, or P2P ...

<bbm>

 

[deugirtni]

Was it stated that LE removed 'dangerous and flammable' chemicals, or were they, in wearing those suits, just protecting themselves because they weren't sure what the chemicals were at the time, and what the potential dangers were to themselves?

No-one suggested there was anything unusual about it. Someone was wondering about what he did for a living. Here is something he put in the public domain which one construed as a possible source of income. The ban on export of elemental mercury quite possibly put paid to P2 Solutions Ltd. one does wonder where it was obtained as it can't be "manufactured". It could have been derived from used batteries. Again there are illicit uses and perfectly legitimate uses for the product. I am particularly interested in trying to establish what "dangerous and flammable" chemicals LE removed from the acreage. BUT again, they could simply have been stored since the man claimed to own a chemical manufacturing business.

 

[otto]

We don't know what, if any drug related evidence was or was not found. There is just speculation given the mention of chemicals in MSM.

The point was, that separate charges for any other illegal activity expected to be presented at any murder trial, isn't going to create any new charges in the short term. One simply can't assert that because there are no current charges related to it, that it *absolutely* means LE found nothing. If there is a renewal of the identity theft charges as you stated, then any new charges can be laid at that time as well.

I really don't understand. Garland is charged with murder. He is also charged with identity theft. The identity theft charges were stayed because they apparently are related to the murder. That means that they may be renewed during the murder trial. They may also be withdrawn.

Any illegal activities at a different location that relate to the accused will result in separate charges and a separate trial. We know this because the murders are not related to illegal drugs. The victims have no connection to illegal drugs. The victims have no physical connection to the Airdrie property. For example, police suspect that the accused is responsible for the murder of Helena (body found 10 miles from Airdrie acreage). The prosecutor cannot bring charges for this murder in the middle of the Parkhill murder trial and introduce evidence related to that murder at the Parkhill murder trial. They're totally unrelated in the same way that illegal drug activity is totally unrelated to the Parkhill murders.

It is a fact that we don't know that the victims were ever at the Airdrie property. It's quite possible that they were disposed of in the middle of the night in a secluded location ... similar to what was done with Helena's body. Regardless, criminal trials are not an open forum where the prosecutor can suddenly throw all sorts of accusations at the accused. The prosecutor's role is merely to present a linear sequential explanation of the evidence such that it leaves no doubt that the accused is indeed guilty. If the murders were unrelated to illegal drugs, then illegal drugs cannot be mentioned during trial.

If there were illegal drug activities on the property, Garland would have been charged with drugs in addition to identity theft. He was not charged with illegal drug activity, so there was no evidence of it at the time that police arrived at the property.

 

[stan laurel]

I doubt that he was an upstanding citizen between his arrests. In fact, we know that police are investing whether Garland is responsible for another murder. In between his illegal activities, he probably helped out around the acreage. He also spent some time working for Alvin.

Some people are addicted to things that consume time,, Art/painting/sculpting is one, gambling is another, as is World of Warcraft or online games, Websleuths eats a lot of time too and if you think 14 years is some great time span, well, it isn't,, some people spend their lives writing great canons of literature, others spend time finessing an idea be it a math equation or a process, some are happy just being trophy wife dusting the golf clubs, or house husbands building the deck that never gets built.

All the above - for regular working stiffs - take place after or before work,, DG was afforded this by, well obviously his parents, as I'm sure the property was long paid for and there was an extra bedroom and a place at the dinner table. The G's to some extent knew there son had some social issues and seems that they provided him some relief of his social burden. If he is the murderer, it's too bad he squandered that gift or what most people would give an eye tooth to have.

As for phone numbers and workplaces, I've worked numerous places where the call center was not remotely close by, in fact 6 miles away from our office at a lab. And not all factories look like smoke stacks in Gotham, it really comes down to the layout and whether or not it meets the standards of whatever department of government oversees it. As for private business, all that means is that we the public are not privy to it's transactions and book keeping, that's only privy to revenue Canada.