Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[Lalalacasbah]

Did anyone notice in one of the news conferences on video from early in the case, that Sgt Andrus stated that the markings were 'on the wall', and not that the markings were on the ground? It was in a link that I believe LoisLane posted earlier today, it was a Q&A session with Andrus and reporters. I found it difficult to hear the reporters' questions, but could Andrus very well. (But mind you, I had to keep the volume down, so that my family doesn't think I'm obsessed)

Gosh, I can't remember, can't help you there! But would love to hear if someone here finds out that info.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The house is also rather old, isn't it?? I don't think all houses came with access between garage/house at that time. Also, it seems to me that if there was a door inside the garage leading to the interior of the house, it would have been located right where that photograph is taken of LE looking at things on the shelf of the garage wall? Unless it is up closer toward the front of the house, but also, if the house were a split level, the garage may end up being between two levels of the house.

Does anyone know if that side exterior door belongs to the house, or to the garage?

Not sure the age, I think some sleuthers on here figured it out though awhile back.

I would think the same location for the door - to the right of the shelf. So the side door would see the house door.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Does anyone know how zoominfo dot com works? Does it auto update with info from the web? It must, kinda like how Tumblr can auto update without the user?

AL's old profile there was updated July 11th, 2014 in the Web References section with a news story published on July 11th, 2014. It was updated with a Vancouver Island publication about the memorial (link below). There are other news stories pulled in as well, but the most recent and last updated was July 11th.

Is this just an auto generated thing where it takes your 'tagged' name off the internet and updates your profile? If it's auto-generated, wouldn't there be EVERY news story on the profile, instead of less than 10 that just stop on July 11th?

http://www.ladysmithchronicle.com/national/266679421.html

 

[LoisLane]

Does anyone know how zoominfo dot com works? Does it auto update with info from the web? It must, kinda like how Tumblr can auto update without the user?

AL's old profile there was updated July 11th, 2014 in the Web References section with a news story published on July 11th, 2014. It was updated with a Vancouver Island publication about the memorial (link below). There are other news stories pulled in as well, but the most recent and last updated was July 11th.

Is this just an auto generated thing where it takes your 'tagged' name off the internet and updates your profile? If it's auto-generated, wouldn't there be EVERY news story on the profile, instead of less than 10 that just stop on July 11th?

http://www.ladysmithchronicle.com/national/266679421.html

Interesting! I will take a peak in the morning. I am beat! Just stepped outside and saw 4 deer, one was a baby. So beautiful, I am going to take that image and get to bed!

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

So what I don't get is - if the sidewalk was 'cleaned' after, how did that material stay stuck and not get washed away? The only (gross) conclusion I can come up with, is after the murderer cleaned up, he walked past and the material was stuck to his shoe? Sorry guys, I hate this gore, it's quite upsetting.

Also why wasn't such a noticeable piece of bloody material marked with a marker? Anyone have thoughts on this?

I think cleaning hurriedly, in the dark, trying to be quiet, makes for a sloppy effort.

 

[Slebby]

"Forensic experts continue to analyze evidence taken from the home, which police hope will help them better understand the violent attack and how many of the three were hurt. But it could be another week before those lab results are available, Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus told reporters."

http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10001057


Didn't someone post a comment from a neighbour that toured the home when the clean up crew was there? Wasn't there something about the walls just inside the house being cleaned? The bedroom is not just inside the house ... the living room is.

I was making the point that not all violent incidents are necessarily violent struggles.

As I said, we don't have the facts to know there was a struggle. Yes, I believe there's a good chance there was a struggle. However, if they had been killed as they slept, that would have been a violent incident, not a violent struggle.

Now had they been killed as they slept and then left in their beds, it's possible the killer got away without leaving blood in the living room or front entry area. However, because the bodies were moved, there is a pretty good chance that, even if they had been killed as they slept, with no struggle, the killer probably got blood on his hands, his clothes, the floor, etc. as he undertook to remove violently killed bodies from the house. That would explain any possible blood on the walls that required cleaning (which, by the way, we don't know it was blood that was cleaned, because by the time it was observed, it had been cleaned. The neighbour didn't see what had been there that necessitated the cleaning. We are making an assumption that it was blood)
IMHO

 

[Tinkerbel1]

so it isn't cut and dry which keeps something going in the backs of our minds. If there is another who departed the vehicle, when and where did they go?

There is absolutely nothing cut and dry about this case. I still think DG was giving someone (AL?) a ride. Either from home to somewhere, or back home from somewhere. I don't for a minute buy that AL and DG did not associate. Which way was the truck going when this footage was seen? And what time of day was it? I get confused with all 'truck sighting' information.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

"Forensic experts continue to analyze evidence taken from the home, which police hope will help them better understand the violent attack and how many of the three were hurt. But it could be another week before those lab results are available, Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus told reporters."

http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10001057

Didn't someone post a comment from a neighbour that toured the home when the clean up crew was there? Wasn't there something about the walls just inside the house being cleaned? The bedroom is not just inside the house ... the living room is.

I just had a thought. "Forensic experts continue to analyze evidence taken from the home...."
Key word being "continue"....there were somewhere around what? 300 people going through the Liknes home over that weekend due to the estate sale? There must have been fingerprints galore, footprints with possible "dirt, etc." present, strands of hair, garbage, cigarette butts outside (maybe), spit out gum, coffee cups, water bottles, etc. Anything that people who are basically "garage sailing" may be lugging along with them. These things are outings for a lot of people and they enjoy them, so it makes sense to me that there would be various possibly discarded items that police would have to collect. It's probably massive. It is normal for human beings to lose up to 150 strands of hair per day, so 300 x 150 = 45,000 strands of hair, and they would have to match them up to people. That would all be considered 'forensic evidence' as LE had no idea what they were looking for. How long would it take to get all of those tested? Lets say if there were even 1/4 of that, that's a LOT of possible evidence. Fingerprints are another story. How can anyone at this point determine specifics yet? Just wondering.

 

[Slebby]

I just went back and looked at the video again. I have two points:

One. The keypad at the garage is not wired into a home security alarm. I have the identical one. It is nothing more than a garage door opener, coded to the same frequency or code as the garage door opener in my vehicle, used solely to open and close the garage door. It doesn't even have electrical wiring, it is battery operated. Why there would be blood on it is anyone's guess.

Two. Regarding the question of whether there was a passenger in the truck or not. I believe that in the video, when the reporter says "driver AND passenger", he is misquoting Andrus, who, a few moments later in the video, says "individual OR individuals". IMO, Andrus is showing his professionalism by saying only as much as he needs to. He is not going to reveal how much knowledge LE has gleaned from the CCTV. I don't believe LE detected a passenger, then later, when they were only able to arrest DG decided "Meh, we caught one, let that loose thread dangle. We won't worry about the passenger". I also personally don't think any of the Ls, including AL, were in the truck that night. After all, if anyone was in cahoots with DG, they would not have ended up dead. And LE has told us, there is no question, all three are dead.

Of course, all IMHO

 

[winnnancy]

I just went back and looked at the video again. I have two points:

One. The keypad at the garage is not wired into a home security alarm. I have the identical one. It is nothing more than a garage door opener, coded to the same frequency or code as the garage door opener in my vehicle, used solely to open and close the garage door. It doesn't even have electrical wiring, it is battery operated. Why there would be blood on it is anyone's guess.

Two. Regarding the question of whether there was a passenger in the truck or not. I believe that in the video, when the reporter says "driver AND passenger", he is misquoting Andrus, who, a few moments later in the video, says "individual OR individuals". IMO, Andrus is showing his professionalism by saying only as much as he needs to. He is not going to reveal how much knowledge LE has gleaned from the CCTV. I don't believe LE detected a passenger, then later, when they were only able to arrest DG decided "Meh, we caught one, let that loose thread dangle. We won't worry about the passenger". I also personally don't think any of the Ls, including AL, were in the truck that night. After all, if anyone was in cahoots with DG, they would not have ended up dead. And LE has told us, there is no question, all three are dead.

Of course, all IMHO

My In laws have what appears to be a similar panel in what looks like the same location on the garage at the lake. Theirs is keyless entry for opening the garage door.

 

[LoisLane]

My In laws have what appears to be a similar panel in what looks like the same location on the garage at the lake. Theirs is keyless entry for opening the garage door.

I have one as well. I just learned that if you have the garage door open either thru your vehicle (mine is coded into my car) or from the wall, a remote etc, that if it is open and you want to close it you do not need to type in a code. If it is open it can be closed without a code, just hit the close button. It is a safety feature.

 

[LoisLane]

Sorry off topic, I just read something on FB that's interesting:

Awhile back I had posted on here that there was a phone number and address listing and possible business connections for AL (not Alvin, but still unsure if ALJR or ALSR, I think it's ALJR) in Helena, Montana which I thought odd. Is there some great tax reason to have an address and/or possible business in Montana other than it's close to Alberta?

I was unsure it was the same AL or same family in general, but thought it was. I was snooping the FB group 'Army Of Prayers For The Liknes - O'Brien Family' (thanks LL for letting me know of the group) and there's a post from a SCH who wrote a message and said they are friends of Allen's from Montana and down the thread, they've known him since 1993.

So it seems it is the same ALiknes who has some connections to Montana. Nothing major, but wanted to share in case anyone else is sleuthing/following any and all business leads (if there is any). I can't confirm business in Montana, but reverse searched the address and phone number and businesses come up although not sure they might be ALSR/JRs.

I believe there was/is a business connection in Montana. I know a few Calgarians who have cabins in Montana. It is the quickest border crossing from Calgary at about 300Km. I wonder if it is easier to cross the border by car or small plane if you are trying to avoid detection.

 

[LoisLane]

I dated two trust fund gals in my youth (cough) and both had houses bought for them at age 21 (one of them just southwest of parkhill in a chi chi neighbourhood. the house might have been that type of set up.

Could have been! Nice investment/inheritance for a young lady. The family home of the gf is only a couple blocks away, I know I would want to keep my baby close. Also, it is nice to keep tabs on secondary homes so it makes sense to own in the same neighborhood.

Either way that house was listed with fresh snow on the ground and was still listed in July. It is inactive now, but I don't believe it was sold. I guess that with all the media broadcasts from that street the homeowner wants to let the infamous street recognition die down before relisting.

They could have been renting it out as a furnished Executive suite although they had a small fresh fish tank on the counter (staging points for that). The home definetly was de-personalized. I wonder if they had an open house that weekend as well. It can cost thousands of dollars (a month) to stage a home like that (unless you purchased the furnishings).

Eta.. Possibly there was an open house on June 21. I have to get to a PC to take a better look. If it was staged and they kept it that way for the open house they may have had the furnishings removed shortly after. That would be getting pretty close to the timeline of the Estate Sale.

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you for the comic relief for today
And yes... you are most certainly correct in that it is a garage-door-opener as opposed to an alarm-keypad. Silly me! Sorry about that! But.. I am also happy to hear that, because as Lala had suggested, that was a horrible thought, thinking that someone injured was trying to sound the alarm. I'm not certain that the video is where I saw the 'streams' of blood just below that door-opener, or if it was in a picture or another video I viewed yesterday. I just wanted to make sure everyone else had already noticed that picture, as I had not noticed it until yesterday.
In regard to the reporter 'misquoting' the officer, yes, you are probably right again, and this seems to have happened so many times in the reporting on this case, it is like one cannot rely on anything that has been published, unless we hear it from the source with our own ears. For all we know, when GlobalNews held their telephone interview with ALJr, he could have said, 'the relationship DID end on a bad note', rather than the reported, 'the relationship did NOT end on a bad note however'. Every other news report it seems, has reported the exact opposite, in saying there WAS bad blood, so perhaps the only station that DID interview the actual source, got THAT wrong too? And we already know about the one NationalPost article wherein there are numerous errors. So how can we really rely on anything at all that we are being told?
I believe that if the 3 missing were inside DG's truck, that would have been confirmed prior to DG being released on bail prior to his arrest for murder. As you said, LE is not saying anything 'extra', that they don't have to, so, why even bother to say, 'individual or individuals', when I'm not sure it occurred to anyone to think there was another individual in that truck photo. That leads me to believe that there was in fact the possibility being considered at the time, that there was more than one person seen inside.
LE has told us there is no question all 3 are dead, however, that is their opinion based on 'the preponderance of evidence', and not based on fact, IMOO. I really really hope that when this gets to trial, it will have all the answers and I will no longer be left still feeling that things aren't adding up in various places.

ADD: Also, in regard to what I find to be many instances of bad reporting/errors/inconsistencies.. I have also noticed that many news agencies will have the exact same news story as another news agency, and so, if there happens to be an error, or an incorrect statement in the one article, then we have MANY news outlets reporting the exact same words, and so that error expands exponentially. Do these things ever get corrected? And if they do, are they in some little one inch tiny spot within a newspaper days later that nobody would notice? Is it too late by then anyway, after the error has been copied and sent out all over the internet in various websites?

I just went back and looked at the video again. I have two points:

One. The keypad at the garage is not wired into a home security alarm. I have the identical one. It is nothing more than a garage door opener, coded to the same frequency or code as the garage door opener in my vehicle, used solely to open and close the garage door. It doesn't even have electrical wiring, it is battery operated. Why there would be blood on it is anyone's guess.

Two. Regarding the question of whether there was a passenger in the truck or not. I believe that in the video, when the reporter says "driver AND passenger", he is misquoting Andrus, who, a few moments later in the video, says "individual OR individuals". IMO, Andrus is showing his professionalism by saying only as much as he needs to. He is not going to reveal how much knowledge LE has gleaned from the CCTV. I don't believe LE detected a passenger, then later, when they were only able to arrest DG decided "Meh, we caught one, let that loose thread dangle. We won't worry about the passenger". I also personally don't think any of the Ls, including AL, were in the truck that night. After all, if anyone was in cahoots with DG, they would not have ended up dead. And LE has told us, there is no question, all three are dead.

Of course, all IMHO

 

[kaley]

I believe there was/is a business connection in Montana. I know a few Calgarians who have cabins in Montana. It is the quickest border crossing from Calgary at about 300Km. I wonder if it is easier to cross the border by car or small plane if you are trying to avoid detection.

When I lived in Calgary my hubby and I were trying to go and see my brother who lived in Boise Idaho at the time and we decided to drive the 15 hours plus drive from Calgary to Boise. We crossed at the Montana boarder. My husband lost his birth certificate sometime weeks prior and neither of us had passports.

We decided to drive to the boarder anyway and see what they would say. They actually let us cross. They told my hubby that he had to be back in 2 weeks and they let us go no questions asked. So I'd say, at the time circa 2007 they were very accommodating.

 

[LoisLane]

ADD: Also, in regard to what I find to be many instances of bad reporting/errors/inconsistencies.. I have also noticed that many news agencies will have the exact same news story as another news agency, and so, if there happens to be an error, or an incorrect statement in the one article, then we have MANY news outlets reporting the exact same words, and so that error expands exponentially. Do these things ever get corrected? And if they do, are they in some little one inch tiny spot within a newspaper days later that nobody would notice? Is it too late by then anyway, after the error has been copied and sent out all over the internet in various websites?

Great post! I did email one reporter for clarification and to point out a discrepancy and she updated the article right away as well she replied back to me. Once the article was corrected it did not give reason or time of an edit only the time had changed from the original post time. That was an online article.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I just had a thought. "Forensic experts continue to analyze evidence taken from the home...."
Key word being "continue"....there were somewhere around what? 300 people going through the Liknes home over that weekend due to the estate sale? There must have been fingerprints galore, footprints with possible "dirt, etc." present, strands of hair, garbage, cigarette butts outside (maybe), spit out gum, coffee cups, water bottles, etc. Anything that people who are basically "garage sailing" may be lugging along with them. These things are outings for a lot of people and they enjoy them, so it makes sense to me that there would be various possibly discarded items that police would have to collect. It's probably massive. It is normal for human beings to lose up to 150 strands of hair per day, so 300 x 150 = 45,000 strands of hair, and they would have to match them up to people. That would all be considered 'forensic evidence' as LE had no idea what they were looking for. How long would it take to get all of those tested? Lets say if there were even 1/4 of that, that's a LOT of possible evidence. Fingerprints are another story. How can anyone at this point determine specifics yet? Just wondering.

Does anyone know where the number 200 and 300 came from? Who told LE there was 200-300 people in the house?

Maybe I'm naive about people wanting to get a deal - but really? That many people at an estate sale??? Seems like way too many if you ask me, I could see 50-100 tops.

 

[Hez]

I just had a thought. "Forensic experts continue to analyze evidence taken from the home...."
Key word being "continue"....there were somewhere around what? 300 people going through the Liknes home over that weekend due to the estate sale? There must have been fingerprints galore, footprints with possible "dirt, etc." present, strands of hair, garbage, cigarette butts outside (maybe), spit out gum, coffee cups, water bottles, etc. Anything that people who are basically "garage sailing" may be lugging along with them. These things are outings for a lot of people and they enjoy them, so it makes sense to me that there would be various possibly discarded items that police would have to collect. It's probably massive. It is normal for human beings to lose up to 150 strands of hair per day, so 300 x 150 = 45,000 strands of hair, and they would have to match them up to people. That would all be considered 'forensic evidence' as LE had no idea what they were looking for. How long would it take to get all of those tested? Lets say if there were even 1/4 of that, that's a LOT of possible evidence. Fingerprints are another story. How can anyone at this point determine specifics yet? Just wondering.

BBM - You are assuming that each of those 300 people each left at least 1 hair behind while visiting the estate sale and I just don't think that is likely.

 

[Cherchri]

BBM

It is a legal term that is included in the Criminal Code. Police use legal terms like "violent incident", and "homicide".
Can we deny that the bloody crime scene was not the result of a violent struggle?
There were three victims and one assailant. Chances are at least one of the adults struggled to survive and to protect Nathan.

Whether included in the criminal code (which uses language) or not, it is not specifically a legal term - it's plain English. An incident covers platitudes a struggle implies two or more people engaged in a battle/struggle. We cannot confirm or deny that a struggle took place. We simply don't know. As I said, if the victims were killed in their sleep there would not have been a struggle. If they were not, there may well have been a struggle. The bottom line is we do not know. LE would, therefore, be very careful in their choice of words and opt for "incident" or "crime" and not "struggle".

 

[deugirtni]

I think Tinkerbel1 has put forth an assumption that 11,200 strands of hair may have been left (perhaps 37.5 strands of hair per visitor if there were 300); if there were 300, why would you not think it likely that each person might drop at least 1 strand of hair?

BBM - You are assuming that each of those 300 people each left at least 1 hair behind while visiting the estate sale and I just don't think that is likely.