Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[Tinkerbel1]

This is the South wall of the garage, next to the side door. The two windows to the left of the officer are the same two windows seen in the exterior view.

links:

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/police-confident-they-will-find-missing-boy-and-grandparents-1.1896991

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...ers+have+been+house+weeks/10027455/story.html

How do you know this? And, are those pants the officer is looking at?

 

[deugirtni]

Does anyone know how long an average garage is? (How long is a car?)
If the 'drag marks' spanned 8 meters (is that correct? I don't have that in front of me?) and 8 meters = 26 1/4 feet, and they measurement (of 8 meters) likely includes turning the corner to the place on the driveway where the drag marks ended, then we can probably figure out if that door belongs to the garage or the house?
I noticed in the 'garage interior photo', that my bearings were off, I had assumed that the 'work bench' was along the side wall, where the garage abutts the house, but now I see that there is a car parked in the garage in that photo, so the 'work bench' is actually in front of the vehicle, so I don't think we can see the angle of the garage which would show whether or not there is a door into the house?
I would agree with you that not many garage doors would have a screen door.
It is also odd to me that there is a little step there on the sidewalk, and the door falls on the lower level of the sidewalk, which to me, would almost indicaate that the lower level of the sidewalk meets with the garage, and the upper sidewalk meets with the house? Notice there are also 2 trash bags? (at least that's what they look like to me)?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Does anyone know how long an average garage is? (How long is a car?)
If the 'drag marks' spanned 8 meters (is that correct? I don't have that in front of me?) and 8 meters = 26 1/4 feet, and they measurement (of 8 meters) likely includes turning the corner to the place on the driveway where the drag marks ended, then we can probably figure out if that door belongs to the garage or the house?
I noticed in the 'garage interior photo', that my bearings were off, I had assumed that the 'work bench' was along the side wall, where the garage abutts the house, but now I see that there is a car parked in the garage in that photo, so the 'work bench' is actually in front of the vehicle, so I don't think we can see the angle of the garage which would show whether or not there is a door into the house?
I would agree with you that not many garage doors would have a screen door.
It is also odd to me that there is a little step there on the sidewalk, and the door falls on the lower level of the sidewalk, which to me, would almost indicaate that the lower level of the sidewalk meets with the garage, and the upper sidewalk meets with the house? Notice there are also 2 trash bags? (at least that's what they look like to me)?

20x24? Nowadays they build them so the vehicles don't fit! lol At least up in Edmonton they do..hahaha

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, and... I would imagine that even if everyone at the 'estate sale' gave a strand of hair, nothing is to say that one of the estate sale attendees was not the perp. Can you imagine? Guy show up and says, here I bought this, and here's one of my hairs, and my fingerprint (I dont' think they were taking people's prints though were they?), and meanwhile... the guy came back in the middle of the night and stole all the cash and the bodies.

lol...the average is 150 hairs per day...some lose more, some lose less. Short hair people/long hair people lose at their own rates personal to the individual...it has to do with the hair follicle and not the length of hair. Balding people may lose more than 150. My whole point was the potential amount of forensic evidence that would have to be sifted through in order to determine the assailant, or dismiss everyone who wasn't the assailant...which means, in the case of lost hair strands, all people from the estate sale would have to give a hair sample in order to technically be ruled out...don't you think? That's what I think. It's like medicine and looking for a disease...they start at the worst case scenario, and work their way down deductively..or so I was told. Unless something identifying DG specifically, ie..a hair sample/strand; blood; identification or whatever, it would be quite the crime scene to comb thru given the amount of people that were through that house on the weekend.

 

[LoisLane]

Does anyone know where the number 200 and 300 came from? Who told LE there was 200-300 people in the house?

Maybe I'm naive about people wanting to get a deal - but really? That many people at an estate sale??? Seems like way too many if you ask me, I could see 50-100 tops.

I have a feeling that was an incorrect estimate. Around 80 people reported back to the community center and I think it is possible that a few did not show up but for 80 to show up is a pretty strong turn out. I bet more called in who did go and never bought anything. I read an estimate that was worded differently like in the dozens or something, not hundreds. I will see if I still have that handy.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Police do need to place Garland in the home at the time of the murders. They must have found evidence of that, and it must have been confirmed, prior to his arrest. It's quite possible that the evidence is related to video surveillance. Police released two photos taken early in the evening, but they would also have photos taken after the murders occurred. The photos of the truck are taken under a street light by a camera that is placed on the second storey of the building across the street - giving a full view of the contents in the back of the truck. If there are three bodies in the back of the truck in later photos (which obviously would not be released to the media), and bedding from inside the house, that is sufficient to conclude that Garland is connected to the murders. I don't think it's necessary to analyse thousands of hairs.

There is probably more evidence from the Acreage, most likely along the lines of burning that bedding that was taken from the crime scene. How do we know that bedding was removed from the crime scene ... because police collected bedding from garbage dumps.

Oh probably.

 

[LoisLane]

lol...the average is 150 hairs per day...some lose more, some lose less. Short hair people/long hair people lose at their own rates personal to the individual...it has to do with the hair follicle and not the length of hair. Balding people may lose more than 150. My whole point was the potential amount of forensic evidence that would have to be sifted through in order to determine the assailant, or dismiss everyone who wasn't the assailant...which means, in the case of lost hair strands, all people from the estate sale would have to give a hair sample in order to technically be ruled out...don't you think? That's what I think. It's like medicine and looking for a disease...they start at the worst case scenario, and work their way down deductively..or so I was told. Unless something identifying DG specifically, ie..a hair sample/strand; blood; identification or whatever, it would be quite the crime scene to comb thru given the amount of people that were through that house on the weekend.

As well as the fingerprints. Ten fingers per person (on average)!

 

[Krystine]

Before we have a repeat of the debate as to whether the addition on the back of the house was added after the house was built, here's the aerial shot from 1955. The source is the Public Library.

Fill your boots, I have sworn off of debating trivial topics

 

[deugirtni]

Man, do I feel really stupid???? Are you saying that all 10 of a human's fingers each have their own unique print? I had always thought that one person's prints were the same on each of the 10 fingers. Is that not correct? <goes off to the corner>

As well as the fingerprints. Ten fingers per person (on average)!

 

[otto]

How do you know this? And, are those pants the officer is looking at?

Perhaps, if you disagree, you could tell me where you believe the interior photo to be taken. Where else are there two side by side windows as we see in the exterior of the garage. It's very easy to criticize and demand more and more and more explanation, but I'm asking you ... if you disagree with my suggestion, please explain why is it incorrect, and propose the correct location. If there is no explanation and no alternate suggestion, then ... that is how I know this. It is simply because there is no other possibility.

 

[deugirtni]

Why are those 'dark red drag marks' not visible in this picture?
Also, something just occurred to me, but it likely doesn't make sense... but here goes anyway. I see that in the corner there, there is a downpipe (sorry I don't know the correct terminology).. which leads up to the roof eavestroughs... there seem to be trees around.. with perhaps dead leaves and dead needles.. is it possible that if the eaves troughs were full of dead leaves, and then it rains, the resulting rainwater coming down the downpipe would be discolored, like a rusty color perhaps, and if so, could that dirty stained rain water stain the sidewalk? And if someone swept the sidewalk, could it look like drag marks? Just a thought, nobody needs to be nasty.

In the plans that I put together so far, it is a side door going to the house and the assumption that there is an interior door connecting the garage to the house. I can easily modify the existing plans if we can confirm that the side door is a garage door.

One reason that I suspect that the side door leads to the house is that there is a screen door, and garage people doors never have a screen door.''

The garage would have a people door for entering the house via the garage.

Photo Ref: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...n+They+subject+Amber+Alert/9992143/story.html

 

[otto]

Does anyone know how long an average garage is? (How long is a car?)
If the 'drag marks' spanned 8 meters (is that correct? I don't have that in front of me?) and 8 meters = 26 1/4 feet, and they measurement (of 8 meters) likely includes turning the corner to the place on the driveway where the drag marks ended, then we can probably figure out if that door belongs to the garage or the house?
I noticed in the 'garage interior photo', that my bearings were off, I had assumed that the 'work bench' was along the side wall, where the garage abutts the house, but now I see that there is a car parked in the garage in that photo, so the 'work bench' is actually in front of the vehicle, so I don't think we can see the angle of the garage which would show whether or not there is a door into the house?
I would agree with you that not many garage doors would have a screen door.
It is also odd to me that there is a little step there on the sidewalk, and the door falls on the lower level of the sidewalk, which to me, would almost indicaate that the lower level of the sidewalk meets with the garage, and the upper sidewalk meets with the house? Notice there are also 2 trash bags? (at least that's what they look like to me)?

What photo are you referring to?

 

[deugirtni]

I have no idea what that officer is looking at, all I could notice is his big gun! I think it makes sense to presume that is an interior shot of that outside wall of the garage, as the window sizes seem to 'match', and the distance between the 2 windows seems to 'match', and I guess I'm not seeing an exterior door there, so unless the garage keeps going, I guess that exterior side door has to be a door entering into the house, or mudroom, or something.

How do you know this? And, are those pants the officer is looking at?

 

[LoisLane]

Police do need to place Garland in the home at the time of the murders. They must have found evidence of that, and it must have been confirmed, prior to his arrest. It's quite possible that the evidence is related to video surveillance. Police released two photos taken early in the evening, but they would also have photos taken after the murders occurred. The photos of the truck are taken under a street light by a camera that is placed on the second storey of the building across the street - giving a full view of the contents in the back of the truck. If there are three bodies in the back of the truck in later photos (which obviously would not be released to the media), and bedding from inside the house, that is sufficient to conclude that Garland is connected to the murders. I don't think it's necessary to analyse thousands of hairs.

There is probably more evidence from the Acreage, most likely along the lines of burning that bedding that was taken from the crime scene. How do we know that bedding was removed from the crime scene ... because police collected bedding from garbage dumps.

If the bedding collected from the landfill was connected to the Liknes home it could not have been burned at the acreage. I also think that if hair was found and analyzed they may just test it aginst DG's hair for the time being and possibly match the short hairs that were collected from the home. The long strands would not match DG's unless he cut his hair after June 29th.

 

[deugirtni]

This one

What photo are you referring to?

 

[LoisLane]

How do you know this? And, are those pants the officer is looking at?

I wonder if those pants were pulled from a bag of clothes, possibly ready for donation.

 

[LoisLane]

Does anyone know how long an average garage is? (How long is a car?)
If the 'drag marks' spanned 8 meters (is that correct? I don't have that in front of me?) and 8 meters = 26 1/4 feet, and they measurement (of 8 meters) likely includes turning the corner to the place on the driveway where the drag marks ended, then we can probably figure out if that door belongs to the garage or the house?
I noticed in the 'garage interior photo', that my bearings were off, I had assumed that the 'work bench' was along the side wall, where the garage abutts the house, but now I see that there is a car parked in the garage in that photo, so the 'work bench' is actually in front of the vehicle, so I don't think we can see the angle of the garage which would show whether or not there is a door into the house?
I would agree with you that not many garage doors would have a screen door.
It is also odd to me that there is a little step there on the sidewalk, and the door falls on the lower level of the sidewalk, which to me, would almost indicaate that the lower level of the sidewalk meets with the garage, and the upper sidewalk meets with the house? Notice there are also 2 trash bags? (at least that's what they look like to me)?

The City of Calgary has a residential by-law for garage size. I believe this is a single-car garage so it would be roughly 8-10 ft wide by 22-24 ft deep (these are the minimum) I can get the exact measurement in a bit. The house is much older so it may have been built-to-fit and the by-law may not have existed or used different standards.

If the assessment calculations are accurate it says the garage is 106 sq. meters so that would be a 2-car garage and so the garage would be 30ft wide x 38ft deep to equal the square footage, it could be any configuration but this is an example. So this is an oversized garage. I find the assessment of 106 sq. meters to be inaccurate based on the photos of the exterior of the garage and that the door looks like it was large enough for the car. I have to take a look at the photo and get another opinion.

Back again... There is no way the dimensions for the garage in that assessment are correct. I have looked at the photo of the house and it is a small single-car garage. It is not 106sq. meters.

 

[otto]

This one

View attachment 60952

That photo is of the same corner of the garage where the officer is holding what appear to be pants, except that the white bins have been moved out of the corner.

 

[otto]

The City of Calgary has a residential by-law for garage size. I believe this is a single-car garage so it would be roughly 8-10 ft wide by 22-24 ft deep (these are the minimum) I can get the exact measurement in a bit. The house is much older so it may have been built to fit and the by-law may not have existed or used different standards.

If the assessment calculations are accurate it says the garage is 106 sq. meters so that would be a 2-car garage and so the garage would be 30ft wide x 38ft deep to equal the square footage, it could be any configuration but this is an example. So this is an oversized garage. I find the assessment of 106 sq. meters to be inaccurate based on the photos of the exterior of the garage and that the door looks like it was large enough for the car. I have to take a look at the photo and get another opinion.

Back again... There is no way the dimensions for the garage in that assessment are correct. I have looked at the photo of the house and it is a small single-car garage. It is not 106sq. meters.

I'm pretty sure that the garage in the property description is the double garage (second building) at the back of the property ... which is probably about 20'x20'.

 

[deugirtni]

On the assessment, notice it says 'attached/detached'.. (I don't have it in front of me because it is back a page or two now).. and I'm not even sure if that means one is supposed to circle which one is present, or if that means one of each is present, but then when it says the square footage, there is only one square footage, so I wonder if that measurement is for both garages' combined area?
In any case, I think we know for sure now that the side door the police are examining is not an entry into the garage, but into the house, so the measurement doesn't really matter now, I was just trying to determine if the 'drag marks' were coming out of the house, or out of the garage. It seems to me that the obvious 'blood' places are at the front wall of the garage, and in the cement crevices at the driveway, while the rest, at least to me, looks very lightened going along the side walkway.

The City of Calgary has a residential by-law for garage size. I believe this is a single-car garage so it would be roughly 8-10 ft wide by 22-24 ft deep (these are the minimum) I can get the exact measurement in a bit. The house is much older so it may have been built to fit and the by-law may not have existed or used different standards.

If the assessment calculations are accurate it says the garage is 106 sq. meters so that would be a 2-car garage and so the garage would be 30ft wide x 38ft deep to equal the square footage, it could be any configuration but this is an example. So this is an oversized garage. I find the assessment of 106 sq. meters to be inaccurate based on the photos of the exterior of the garage and that the door looks like it was large enough for the car. I have to take a look at the photo and get another opinion.