Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[Lalalacasbah]

If the bedding collected from the landfill was connected to the Liknes home it could not have been burned at the acreage. I also think that if hair was found and analyzed they may just test it aginst DG's hair for the time being and possibly match the short hairs that were collected from the home. The long strands would not match DG's unless he cut his hair after June 29th.

His hair was *very* short when arrested in the photos, at the time I made a comment about how he might've shaved his head bald to not leave hair DNA at the scene. Does anyone remember the movie Taxi Driver? Right before his murder spree, he shaves his head into a mohawk, that's what made me think that! That was before DNA, so not the reason in the movie, but it was done to show character's state of mind.

 

[stan laurel]

If you find yourself loitering around the back fence, a sketch of what the upper and lower floors of the addition look like ... window door placement ... would be really helpful. Maybe you could climb to the top of the slide at the park to get a better view ... if you don't want to be peering over the fence.

I was thinking of using the parks features to help and leaves are dropping so there should be a better view of the extension.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

How do you know this? And, are those pants the officer is looking at?

Looks like pants, ski pants?

 

[stan laurel]

His hair was *very* short when arrested in the photos, at the time I made a comment about how he might've shaved his head bald to not leave hair DNA at the scene. Does anyone remember the movie Taxi Driver? Right before his murder spree, he shaves his head into a mohawk, that's what made me think that! That was before DNA, so not the reason in the movie, but it was done to show character's state of mind.

oj simpson shaved his head before being picked up by LE but I think that was to not have evidence of amphetamines showing up as a regular use.

 

[LoriMcA]

Okay...a lot of pages and I'm heading to bed soon....but just wanted to say...IIRC...the sale ended at 4pm ...I would have to find links or look wayyyy back but I'm pretty sure it was 4...which means supper could have been any time after that...not so late but a more 'regular' supper time....*I saw a lot of posts about chinese food & supper so I'm just mentioning what I recall*

Otto...your renditions and pics have been great all through this....I was looking at the latest *attached garage & side of attached garage down walkway*...the side with windows...that is the east side correct? Facing out to the vacant neighbour's house? The back wall *work bench* is the southern wall...? I'm assuming because the house faces north and the backyard is south....*going by google maps anyways*...

I've also been examining what pics there are of the back fence...including the overhead from google maps etc...that fence 'appears' to be one piece...that one section nearest the detached garage 'appears' to be different...but from looking at it....I think as said earlier here....it at one time may have been a 'brace' to hold those old garage bins...the wooden ones they used to have back in the day *heck...some of our neighbours still have those* before the city's roll out plastic.....

I was also looking at photos of the garage door...before forensics and after....that mess of purple/gray was not in the 'before' pics...it looks to me like residue & spray/drip trail of Luminol/BlueStar/Leuco crystal violet...JMOO....I will look for links tomorrow or go back through the threads.....gotta hit the hay!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

the back garage is quite large and there used to be different packages one could buy when adding a garage. my dad chose a longer but not wider garage (for the car, truck wouldn't fit) but it was long enough that he had ample work bench space and a loft for pigeons. A friend recently bought a mid sixties home with a garage both long and wide but the door only allows for one vehicle, the wider portion is a home mechanics dream space. AL's garage kinda looks like it. I'll be in that area Monday and will drive past, and I'll also check to see if the fence has a lift out or swing out section.

Looking forward to hear your analysis of the neighborhood and house and what kind of vibe you get. Hopefully you can check out other property's for sale and how quiet and private the neighborhood is for noise, traffic, etc. Right on Stan!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

a stupid tiny garage sale down the street this past summer easily saw 400. the thing is though, and I wonder if the L's did, you have to register your garage/estate sale, one can't just post a sign anymore. not that it matters imo. Calgary has become a gentrified soulless city of vinyl clad homes and suv's that have rarely to if ever set wheel to a gravel road,, marzipan is more colourful than the civic landscape, so things like garage sales feel better than the typical community of walking a mega mall.

Wow, that's crazy, I guess I just forget how big city living is and the crowds of people around. Calgary seems like such a big sprawl and to me seems much bigger than Vancouver, mind you I haven't lived in Vancouver for 10 years either. Remind me to have a garage sale in Calgary sometime, sounds hoppin!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

oj simpson shaved his head before being picked up by LE but I think that was to not have evidence of amphetamines showing up as a regular use.

Tricky ! I mean OJ, of course, not you

 

[Slebby]

Looks like pants, ski pants?

That's exactly what i thought!

 

[otto]

Thanks Otto, I'm still shocked there would be that much of a turn out. Even in a big city like Calgary, the number just seems unlikely or exaggerated. I'm not doubting the statement, still just surprised that many people go to the sales.

It was a three day sale, and initial estimates were at 200. That would be 60-70 people a day. I helped my daughter with a one day garage sale a week after the murders. There were a lot of people in the morning, hardly anyone in the afternoon. The majority were new Canadians with several children each. English was rarely spoken by the buyers. I would say that there were max 50 people, including children and those that waited in the car. Some people came back a second time, so people like that were probably counted twice at the Liknes sale.

80 people registered with police as having attended the 3 day sale. That would represent one person for each family that attended. I think the numbers could be as high as 150-200 depending on how many children each family had.

 

[otto]

Okay...a lot of pages and I'm heading to bed soon....but just wanted to say...IIRC...the sale ended at 4pm ...I would have to find links or look wayyyy back but I'm pretty sure it was 4...which means supper could have been any time after that...not so late but a more 'regular' supper time....*I saw a lot of posts about chinese food & supper so I'm just mentioning what I recall*

Otto...your renditions and pics have been great all through this....I was looking at the latest *attached garage & side of attached garage down walkway*...the side with windows...that is the east side correct? Facing out to the vacant neighbour's house? The back wall *work bench* is the southern wall...? I'm assuming because the house faces north and the backyard is south....*going by google maps anyways*...

I've also been examining what pics there are of the back fence...including the overhead from google maps etc...that fence 'appears' to be one piece...that one section nearest the detached garage 'appears' to be different...but from looking at it....I think as said earlier here....it at one time may have been a 'brace' to hold those old garage bins...the wooden ones they used to have back in the day *heck...some of our neighbours still have those* before the city's roll out plastic.....

I was also looking at photos of the garage door...before forensics and after....that mess of purple/gray was not in the 'before' pics...it looks to me like residue & spray/drip trail of Luminol/BlueStar/Leuco crystal violet...JMOO....I will look for links tomorrow or go back through the threads.....gotta hit the hay!

If we walk to the end of the street, near the river, we're looking West, so when standing in front of the house, it runs East-West ... but it's early ... look at it later today ... might be mistaken.

 

[deugirtni]

I am just guessing here, but I would 'assume' that an 'estate sale' might garner more attendees than a regular 'garage sale'. Also, I was thinking that when LE said that 80 people registered, that number would include however many people were in that group, ie mother registers and between herself and her 2 kids, it would be counted as 3 registered... also, for those that did register, they likely stated if they attended more than one time? JMO.

It was a three day sale, and initial estimates were at 200. That would be 60-70 people a day. I helped my daughter with a one day garage sale a week after the murders. There were a lot of people in the morning, hardly anyone in the afternoon. The majority were new Canadians with several children each. English was rarely spoken by the buyers. I would say that there were max 50 people, including children and those that waited in the car. Some people came back a second time, so people like that were probably counted twice at the Liknes sale.

80 people registered with police as having attended the 3 day sale. That would represent one person for each family that attended. I think the numbers could be as high as 150-200 depending on how many children each family had.

 

[Krystine]

Looking forward to hear your analysis of the neighborhood and house and what kind of vibe you get. Hopefully you can check out other property's for sale and how quiet and private the neighborhood is for noise, traffic, etc. Right on Stan!

And if you think of it, whether the house has a milk box that a 'teen sized' person could slip in through. Doubtful, but someone brought it up early on, and it was topical enough to take up a couple of pages.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Random thought: if the murderer went through so much trouble to (we assume) hose down the sidewalk, he must've wanted his bloody shoe/boot prints washed away also.

I wonder if he did go as far to do a brief clean inside as well? This would mean with a mop maybe so his shoe prints wouldn't be left at the scene?

There was discussion about the swirly/consistent looking pattern left imprinted probably in the textures of the sidewalk and I think mop (would be a small headed one) was an option we discussed.

A mop-like object would've been used to skim the shoe prints off his path of the sidewalk and hosed down after possibly. I wonder if he had an extra pair of shoes?

He could've burned the shoes/boots he was wearing that night. He might've been burning his clothes, not anything connected to the victims.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It was a three day sale, and initial estimates were at 200. That would be 60-70 people a day. I helped my daughter with a one day garage sale a week after the murders. There were a lot of people in the morning, hardly anyone in the afternoon. The majority were new Canadians with several children each. English was rarely spoken by the buyers. I would say that there were max 50 people, including children and those that waited in the car. Some people came back a second time, so people like that were probably counted twice at the Liknes sale.

80 people registered with police as having attended the 3 day sale. That would represent one person for each family that attended. I think the numbers could be as high as 150-200 depending on how many children each family had.

Thanks otto, of course, I forgot it was a 3 day sale and not just 1. Your logic makes total sense.

This is why I like this forum there's some creative thinkers and some logical ones, and balance is good

Sometimes my ideas are 'out there' and sometimes I like logical posters to remind me of certain facts. I'll still remain open-minded, but it's good to hear two sides of thinking with all this info.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

The garage is on the same level as the second living room, which is on the back of the house. That is, from the kitchen, there's a stairwell that goes down to the level of garage, side door, lower floor of new addition in the back. From there, there's another stairwell that goes to the basement, which is the room under the main living room. The main floor is at the top of the front stairs, which includes the front entrance, living, dining, kitchen, and access to the back deck.

The reason that the addition is interesting is because the family may have been in that room on the garage level watching TV, and that room is next to the side door.

Oh! That is very interesting! If tv was facing the door, their backs would likely have been to the door. If assailant was quiet, it was probably not hard to take them by surprise. Except, there would probably have been a reflection on tv screen of someone behind them, so, that's probably not what happened.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

This is going way back but...

I was just thinking...it makes absolutely no sense at all that DG would use his own vehicle as transportation while committing this crime. He's got connections and can obtain fake id obviously. I would think that he would have rented a vehicle using fake identification and gone about his business in that. He wouldn't even have to bring the vehicle back to rental agency, it would be recovered...no one would know who he was (especially if he rented it somewhere else like Edmonton/Red Deer). Why would he risk being discovered by using his own vehicle? That's definitely the last thing I would do. If someone premeditates a double homicide, and plans every little detail down to the 'absolute' disposal of the bodies, why wouldn't they plan on getting an unknown vehicle? And then to park it out in front of his home in plain view? It really doesn't add up to me. I'ld be the type of criminal that would use the kind of gloves that the fingertips were cut off of, and even I wouldn't use my own vehicle.

I wonder if the curtains were open or closed in the livingroom or the 'rumpus room' that night? If not, then random passersby could see into the house and get a glimpse of the activity going on....or was this all done in the dark? Or with a flashlight? Aside from the fact that it appears none of the neighbors heard anything that night, it's Calgary, it's a booming metropolis, it's not Barrhead, Alberta where the streets roll up at 7:00 pm. People go for late night walks, people go home after dark in their vehicles...someone mentioned liking to look into people's houses at night when curtains opened (LL or Lalalacasbah?) to get a sense of the atmosphere. I find it so difficult to believe that this went completely unnoticed.

It's all too perfect. Nothing happens this perfectly...especially if planned...Murphy's Law always seems to make itself present.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This is going way back but...

I was just thinking...it makes absolutely no sense at all that DG would use his own vehicle as transportation while committing this crime. He's got connections and can obtain fake id obviously. I would think that he would have rented a vehicle using fake identification and gone about his business in that. He wouldn't even have to bring the vehicle back to rental agency, it would be recovered...no one would know who he was (especially if he rented it somewhere else like Edmonton/Red Deer). Why would he risk being discovered by using his own vehicle? That's definitely the last thing I would do. If someone premeditates a double homicide, and plans every little detail down to the 'absolute' disposal of the bodies, why wouldn't they plan on getting an unknown vehicle? And then to park it out in front of his home in plain view? It really doesn't add up to me. I'ld be the type of criminal that would use the kind of gloves that the fingertips were cut off of, and even I wouldn't use my own vehicle.

I wonder if the curtains were open or closed in the livingroom or the 'rumpus room' that night? If not, then random passersby could see into the house and get a glimpse of the activity going on....or was this all done in the dark? Or with a flashlight? Aside from the fact that it appears none of the neighbors heard anything that night, it's Calgary, it's a booming metropolis, it's not Barrhead, Alberta where the streets roll up at 7:00 pm. People go for late night walks, people go home after dark in their vehicles...someone mentioned liking to look into people's houses at night when curtains opened (LL or Lalalacasbah?) to get a sense of the atmosphere. I find it so difficult to believe that this went completely unnoticed.

It's all too perfect. Nothing happens this perfectly...especially if planned...Murphy's Law always seems to make itself present.

I echo your thoughts Tink.

It's seems very stupid that he used his own truck and that no one heard/saw anything.

My only reasoning him using his own vehicle would be that although LE said premeditated, it could've been premeditated for only one day, not let's say 7-9 years since the patent dispute.

If he stewed all these years, he might not have decided to do go over the edge and commit an actual murder until the day before which would a) be rushed and b) still premeditated if he looks up ploys on the internet, purchased/obtained a weapon before hand, packed a change of clothes, all signs of premeditation.

I guess I'm saying in short is, he might've made a rash, 24 hours before decision and couldn't rent or get a vehicle that quickly. Just some ideas and IMO.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I echo your thoughts Tink.

It's seems very stupid that he used his own truck and that no one heard/saw anything.

My only reasoning him using his own vehicle would be that although LE said premeditated, it could've been premeditated for only one day, not let's say 7-9 years since the patent dispute.

If he stewed all these years, he might not have decided to do go over the edge and commit an actual murder until the day before which would a) be rushed and b) still premeditated if he looks up ploys on the internet, purchased/obtained a weapon before hand, packed a change of clothes, all signs of premeditation.

I guess I'm saying, he might've maybe a rash, 24 hours before decision and couldn't rent or get a vehicle that quickly. Just some ideas and IMO.

Yes, true. Except that he obviously had a foolproof plan of getting rid of the bodies...that's not easy to come up with in 24 hours...unless he had been thinking about it for years. Still, the first thing on someone's mind if they're going to commit a crime...virtually any crime...would be to make sure they cannot be placed at the scene of the crime...or recognized...even the young kids know to use balaclavas and gloves and not show up in a recognizable vehicle to do b&e's (from what I've heard). Doesn't make sense to me. It was either something else, like he didn't drive up to the house while he committed the crime...but perhaps walked over...or it wasn't quite as premeditated as we have been thinking.

Sometimes I wonder if DG even knows what happened? Was he in some sort of foggy state of mind? If he was on meds and maybe drinking, he might not even realize how he did all this himself. A blackout. It happens. Wouldn't that be something? Then, we'll NEVER know what really happened. That has to be a horrible thought for the family members.

The other option is...if...just suppose that DG and AL were not estranged as believed for the past 7 years? That would then likely make it no big deal for DG's truck to be seen right in their driveway...although, then again, none of the neighbors placed his truck at the Liknes house...did they?

 

[deugirtni]

I also can't fathom that the 'genius' DG would plan this and then drive his apparently very noticeable pickup truck, and not only once but several times in the area during the critical time period. Is *any*one really that stupid? And that seems to be the thing that got him even suspected. Unless there were other things at play in regard to why he was suspected. In find it also interesting that when Cherchri attended court and had a conversation with a new media, the person talked about how the truck was seen twice. And yet we're told several times. So how many times *was* it? You would think that if it were 'several', like 6 or 8 or 10, the reporter would have heard some rumblings in that regard, rather than hearing '2 times'.
Has anyone even considered the possibility of framing?