Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

[Lalalacasbah]

No new leads in search for bodies of Nathan O’Brien and grandparents, police

"Calgary police say they currently are not actively searching for the bodies of five-year-old Nathan O’Brien and his grandparents, Alvin and Kathyrn Liknes."

Ugh. This is not good. I don't like hearing this, wishing they would be found

http://globalnews.ca/news/1642914/n...ies-of-nathan-obrien-and-grandparents-police/

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Sounds like my family! Funny story - back in my early twenties when I frequented the clubs, I met this awesome guy and we hit it off fantastically... Subsequently, we went on a date and it was a good thing we chose a place where we could talk because it turned out that we were first cousins! Ewww!

I can see PG and DG not being close... big age gap and most likely different interests and friends. I have one brother that is only a couple of years older than me and I haven't talked to him in two years. We just have vastly different personalities and don't mesh well. So, I can totally see JO not knowing about DG. This coming from someone that went on a date with her first cousin... I'll say it again... Ewww!

Julie? Long time... How's Uncle Joe?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Something us Websleuthers have suspected but I don't recall it being confirmed in MSM before (unless I've forgotten which is likely) - that there were business dealings (plural), so not just the one patent dispute. Could be bad journalism too.

"CBC News earlier learned there were soured business dealings between Garland and Alvin Liknes, including a patent dispute.(BBM)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...eak-about-loss-and-leaving-a-legacy-1.2816016

 

[Lalalacasbah]

DG is not out on bail nor have we heard of a bail application being made. Disclosure should be complete at this point?

Good point, does this mean DG doesn't want out? Or that the evidence is so damning they wouldn't stand a chance getting it granted and this would taint any public perception of his innocence?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Yes, technically I guess it would be considered rumor since the source of the third crime scene came from one of our posters, but I think the poster who was kind enough to share the info is probably correct and legit.

That info *possibly* aligns with what MSM published that Search and Rescue had an area blocked off to search for bodies (old Cam Clark Ford dealership in Airdrie), and the exact day that search happened at that location (July 19th) was the same day they called off the acreage search, so they probably found something important to call off the entire acreage search.

And, IIRC MSM published somewhere land close to the acreage was being searched, so either of these might be a third crime scene, doesn't seem too far fetched.

So I'm going out on a limb, yes, but it's quite possible this is very true about a third crime scene as I believe the poster who offered this.

"Calgary Search and Rescue Police blocked off the entrance to the former Cam Clark Ford building off of East Lake Ramp on July 19, as part of the search for the bodies of Alvin Liknes, Kathy Liknes, and Nathan O’Brien of Calgary. The search on an Airdrie area rural property has since been called off and the matter is before the courts." (BBM)

The fact that the acreage was just dropped suddenly as a search area and was suddenly before the courts speaks volumes to me. For them to just stop, they had to have found something, but maybe I'm just stuck on this angle, I could be wrong of course!

http://www.airdriecityview.com/arti...d-murderer-s-case-held-over-search-called-off

I don't think the search of the acreage was "called off" for any other reason than LE had completed processing the scene. Called off is probably yet another sloppy choice of words. There was more going on there than a simple search for bodies in a field. The timing with the dealership search most likely has little or nothing to do with the completion of the acreage search.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I don't think the search of the acreage was "called off" for any other reason than LE had completed processing the scene. Called off is probably yet another sloppy choice of words. There was more going on there than a simple search for bodies in a field. The timing with the dealership search most likely has little or nothing to do with the completion of the acreage search.

Perhaps you're right and the timing just coincides and overlaps and it could very well be bad journalism.

I keep thinking about and grasping at that search area in Airdrie for some reason though, don't know why, I just do. It seemed under wraps compared to all the other searches going on, and peaked my interest I guess. Can't shake it, but it's probably nothing since it's not a very private or hidden area. Still wonder what got them to that location in the first place though...

 

[Sillybilly]

Something us Websleuthers have suspected but I don't recall it being confirmed in MSM before (unless I've forgotten which is likely) - that there were business dealings (plural), so not just the one patent dispute. Could be bad journalism too.

"CBC News earlier learned there were soured business dealings between Garland and Alvin Liknes, including a patent dispute.(BBM)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...eak-about-loss-and-leaving-a-legacy-1.2816016

There was also this which I posted upthread:

from:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

Police say there may have been “bad blood” between Mr. Garland and Mr. Liknes due to a patent dispute over a pump that could extract gas from wells thought to be dry. Both men may have also shared investments that went badly.

Doesn't indicate if the bolded part was info shared by LE or reporter's summation of their understanding.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes absolutely. I looked up whatever I could find quickly. I found CIBC's offering of a short-term GIC (short term meaning invested for 60 days and then you can take out your interest). The rate on the amount of $250,000 was 0.5% (that is per year). That would total $1250 in one year, divided by 365 days times 60 days would give you $205. Even if the rate were FIVE %, after 60 days it would only add up to $2000 in interest. So where is the $40,000 coming from which is reported to be dispersed shortly?

Bear in mind that interest rates vary according to the amount in an account. If I remember correctly, I addressed professional dues being collected a month earlier for my professional organization and that one month resulted in a substantial interest revenue for the organization on those monies.

 

[deugirtni]

Don't forget otto, that LE only "believe" the trio to be dead based on the "preponderance of evidence" they have thus far uncovered. Therefore, it is not a fact yet, it is only their belief. So for LE to travel to Mexico 'just to make sure', by perhaps checking the condo for indications of recent inhabitation, or even to check for live or dead bodies, would be prudent on their part to cross their t's and dot their i's. Otherwise, it would be too simple for the defence at trial to say, 'but you didn't even check to see if the trio may have travelled to their condo in Mexico'. There may have been sighting reports in Mexico they were following up on, even if they felt they were false, they would have to have been followed up on in order to protect their case.

The link proves that police went to Mexico on August 6, after police knew that the victims were deceased. Therefore, police did not go to Mexico to look for the victims because there's no way that the victims could have gotten to Mexico after they were murdered in their home in June.

We do know that police did not go to Mexico to look for the murder victims.

There is a reason why they went there. The only connection between the murders and Mexico is the condo that was a joint Garland/Liknes purchase ... coincidentally, a condo linked to both the victims and the accused.

 

[LoisLane]

No new leads in search for bodies of Nathan O’Brien and grandparents, police

"Calgary police say they currently are not actively searching for the bodies of five-year-old Nathan O’Brien and his grandparents, Alvin and Kathyrn Liknes."

Ugh. This is not good. I don't like hearing this, wishing they would be found

http://globalnews.ca/news/1642914/n...ies-of-nathan-obrien-and-grandparents-police/

It just boggles my mind that this case was so quickly "solved" yet they cannot trace his steps to recover a location for three bodies. I wonder when and why they gave up looking.

 

[LoisLane]

Yes absolutely. I looked up whatever I could find quickly. I found CIBC's offering of a short-term GIC (short term meaning invested for 60 days and then you can take out your interest). The rate on the amount of $250,000 was 0.5% (that is per year). That would total $1250 in one year, divided by 365 days times 60 days would give you $205. Even if the rate were FIVE %, after 60 days it would only add up to $2000 in interest. So where is the $40,000 coming from which is reported to be dispersed shortly?

I imagine the 40K is either taken from other donation accounts that were created in Calgary, or the main investor offered the 40K as a kick-start and the rest will be the interest off the principal.

 

[deugirtni]

I was responding to your post wherein you stated that perhaps LE had gone to Mexico to get information regarding the condo purchase. BBM

In a murder investigation, police are only interested in evidence related to the murder. The couldn't care less who owns the condo unless it is related to the murder.

I believe there was at least one statement by LE that they were looking for 'evidence', which of course, could mean virtually anything. I don't think that a physical trip to that country would be required in order to simply obtain ownership documents. It will be interesting when we finally find out in Court what kind of evidence they were seeking.

.... There was another reason that they went to Mexico - perhaps they needed Alvin's twin brother to provide information about the condo purchase. It seems that Alvin's twin either did not return to Canada at the time of the murder, or he did it so quietly that no one in the media took notice - which is hard to believe. I think he simply stayed in Mexico and I think that Alvin and his twin brother set up a business there so that they could own property ... and I think that they registered the property in the name of their corporation. I think that the Garland name was no where to be found on the joint Liknes/Garland title of the property and I think that did not sit well with Garland. ....

 

[deugirtni]

I am getting from your post that you feel that LE already had enough evidence to charge DG with 3 murders, but they set him free on bail on his other, previously unrelated charges, instead of arresting and detaining him further on the murder charges, so that LE could see where things went and see if they could get more information or the whereabouts of the remains?
From what we have been told thus far in MSM, DG was released to some motel, and was subsequently involved in some kind of event after which he was told to leave. So where is he going to go? He knew he wasn't allowed to go to his property. He knew he wasn't allowed out after his curfew. If LE set up something like that, where he was set free instead of being charged, and then set up some kind of scenario where he was ordered to leave, after curfew, the place where he was ordered to go, I am thinking that won't sit too well with DG, his defence, or the judge at trial. Would LE really risk their case like that, if they had one?

Nah, once they had enough, they would have been in a position to see where things went and if that resulted in more information or the remains of the 3 missing it would have only been a bonus.

 

[Cherchri]

It just boggles my mind that this case was so quickly "solved" yet they cannot trace his steps to recover a location for three bodies. I wonder when and why they gave up looking.

As you know I believe the reason to be that there are no bodies left to be found and I feel sure they found evidence to that effect.

 

[otto]

Yes absolutely. I looked up whatever I could find quickly. I found CIBC's offering of a short-term GIC (short term meaning invested for 60 days and then you can take out your interest). The rate on the amount of $250,000 was 0.5% (that is per year). That would total $1250 in one year, divided by 365 days times 60 days would give you $205. Even if the rate were FIVE %, after 60 days it would only add up to $2000 in interest. So where is the $40,000 coming from which is reported to be dispersed shortly?

Where's the report that $250k was deposited and $40k is available?

 

[deugirtni]

That's the trouble with bad journalism, you can never tell if something is accurate or not. There have been so many contradictory reports on various things from MSM in this case. Can't wait for trial.

This post was in response to Lala's post about the possibility of there being more than one business transaction between DG and AL, but it brought in quotes from my last post.

 

[otto]

Don't forget otto, that LE only "believe" the trio to be dead based on the "preponderance of evidence" they have thus far uncovered. Therefore, it is not a fact yet, it is only their belief. So for LE to travel to Mexico 'just to make sure', by perhaps checking the condo for indications of recent inhabitation, or even to check for live or dead bodies, would be prudent on their part to cross their t's and dot their i's. Otherwise, it would be too simple for the defence at trial to say, 'but you didn't even check to see if the trio may have travelled to their condo in Mexico'. There may have been sighting reports in Mexico they were following up on, even if they felt they were false, they would have to have been followed up on in order to protect their case.

Chief Hanson was very clear when he stated that it is a fact that the three are deceased. There may be doubt in this discussion about whether the victims were determined to be deceased, but there is no doubt for investigators. For investigators, it was a fact that the victims were deceased when they saw the crime scene, but they waited for DNA confirmation before making that information public.

I don't think it will be simple for the defence to suggest that the victims are alive. The crime scene and DNA evidence confirmed that they are deceased. I suspect that there are also photos of the victims in the back of Garland's truck - perhaps wrapped in bedding from the Parkhill house.

The CPS would not spend money to send investigators to Mexico to look for anything if it was not related to the murder. The only connection between the accused, the victims, and Mexico is the condo.

The Liknes couple also said that they were moving to Northern Alberta, yet we have not heard that police were looking for the couple in Northern Alberta. Police are not running around looking in all the places that they may be just to rule out that they may be alive. Police know that they are dead and they went to Mexico to investigate something related to the murders.

 

[otto]

It just boggles my mind that this case was so quickly "solved" yet they cannot trace his steps to recover a location for three bodies. I wonder when and why they gave up looking.

Although they may not be actively searching, that doesn't mean that they are not actively investigating.

 

[otto]

The only Mexico connection between Garland, Liknes and Mexico is the joint purchase of a condo.

"Police later sent officers to Mexico to investigate a possible Mexican connection to the case, but they would not confirm what exactly they were checking out."

http://globalnews.ca/news/1642914/n...ies-of-nathan-obrien-and-grandparents-police/

 

[deugirtni]

This story below states that the monies raised by Mr. Head (the gofund) were to cover funeral costs and lost work revenues, so that money was not involved in the creation of the Nathan Foundation. It goes on to say that $250,000 will be donated by the US donor each year for 4 years for a total $1,000,000 donation with which the O's are creating this Nathan Foundation. Otto, you suggested that the principal amount would remain intact while only the interest would be dispersed. I believe you stated that you heard that on a radio or TV story, because I don't believe I have seen an MSM article stating that. I suggested that the $40,000 mentioned in this same article below as being the amount to be released shortly, was too much money to be based on the interest only, considering the soonest they would have received the first $250,000 installment would have been at the time they came into contact with the donor which was in early September, and it is now going into early November, which would only be a max of 2 months interest on the first $250,000 of the donation.

... Head also raised more than $50,000 for the bereaved family to cover funeral costs and lost work revenue. ...

... His gift of $1 million over the next four years, in fact, has helped make possible the Nathan O’Brien Children’s Foundation, a private trust charity.

“When we first heard about him we were preparing for Nathan’s funeral in September,” says Rod of the American donor who would like to remain anonymous. “I thought it was $250,000, which was amazing. Then, when it turned out to be $250,000 a year for four years, it was unbelievable.” ...

... A big part of that includes working on the Nathan O’Brien Children’s Foundation, which will disperse its first $40,000 in funds to help needy children in the coming months. ...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/touch/story.html?id=10331959

Where's the report that $250k was deposited and $40k is available?