Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

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  • #781
This case is old, but new in the way that charges were laid because of DNA technology. He was found guilty but has been granted a new trial. A very long dragged out process. Of course it was not in Alberta but I don't think geography and reputation and records of a police force by department guarantees that they are immune to mistakes.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/105968/Snelson-to-get-new-trial-date

Rapist murderers always claim that they had consensual sex with the murder victim shortly before the murder, but someone else committed the murder. Good for him for getting a new trial using that argument.

Again, what was done during the investigation into the three murders that looks wrong?
 
  • #782
I rather doubt that. Evidence of people being dead is pretty hard to refute.

What if all they are going on is volume of blood?
 
  • #783
Rapist murderers always claim that they had consensual sex with the murder victim shortly before the murder, but someone else committed the murder. Good for him for getting a new trial using that argument.

Again, what was done during the investigation into the three murders that looks wrong?

No one has said anything looks wrong... yet. It's the opposition to questioning LE at all that is the issue.

You cannot find the "wrong" without asking the questions. A doctor billing for surgery is not out of the ordinary, until someone questions if the surgery actually happened. No one is saying the doctor is a criminal... But if a simple cross reference with the OR schedule says otherwise... then is was right to question it.
 
  • #784
Everything previously questioned, and more. Why were they in Mexico? Why aren't they actively searching? Are they digging deep enough into the business dealings? Is the perp walk a good idea? Are any of those involved connected to anyone in LE or anyone with influence? Is there enough oversight and checks and balances? Are the investigators acting beyond reproach? (Look at the current Surrey 6 issues)

Like in life... if you pretend negative only happens elsewhere... then you miss your chance to prevent it, detect it, or stop it.

What has been previously questioned regarding the integrity of the police investigation?

The only connection between the accused, the victims, and Mexico is a jointly owned Liknes/Garland condo. That would be the connection that police were investigating in Mexico. If I had to guess, I would say that condo is tied to motive.

"Police later sent officers to Mexico to investigate a possible Mexican connection to the case, but they would not confirm what exactly they were checking out."

http://globalnews.ca/news/1642914/n...ies-of-nathan-obrien-and-grandparents-police/

Police are investigating, and they will search for the bodies when they have a better idea about where to search. There's no point in having 200 officers aimlessly wandering around the province looking for human bones.

What business dealings are connected to a suspicious green truck seen in surveillance video on the night of the murder?

Everyone gets to do the perp walk. Perhaps the media should have more respect for people that are arrested.

If the question is whether the 200 officers involved in the case had enough checks and balances ... what would be better ... 300 officers?
 
  • #785
No one has said anything looks wrong... yet. It's the opposition to questioning LE at all that is the issue.

You cannot find the "wrong" without asking the questions. A doctor billing for surgery is not out of the ordinary, until someone questions if the surgery actually happened. No one is saying the doctor is a criminal... But if a simple cross reference with the OR schedule says otherwise... then is was right to question it.

There is opposition to questioning the integrity of police when there is no factual statement that justifies questioning their integrity. To cast doubt on the professional integrity of a government employee for absolutely no reason other than to undermine their reputations seems, to me, bizarre. If they did something wrong, let's read about it. If they did not, then the suggestion that they did something wrong is completely misplaced.
 
  • #786
What if all they are going on is volume of blood?

It doesn't matter how police arrived at the conclusion that all three victims are dead. They are dead, and police have evidence to support that fact.
 
  • #787
Rapist murderers always claim that they had consensual sex with the murder victim shortly before the murder, but someone else committed the murder. Good for him for getting a new trial using that argument.

Again, what was done during the investigation into the three murders that looks wrong?

Well for me it is simple, I worry that 200 officers were rushed, overworked, and tired. That could have resulted in miscommunication and errors. I think that if I were to only go on what was presented by LE and what I followed in MSM reports that LE can stand firm in saying they are dead and that DG is the only suspect at this time because of circumstantial precedented evidence that could be as simple as following a paper trail (bank records etc.). They are not lying. They are following evidence, procedure, and approval from consultation with the crown. The court process will be much longer of a process and that is when the piece-by-piece circumstantial vs. direct evidence will be collaborated and validated.

Just for a reference...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence
 
  • #788
It doesn't matter how police arrived at the conclusion that all three victims are dead. They are dead, and police have evidence to support that fact.

I think it will matter, especially for the families of the victims'.
 
  • #789
There is opposition to questioning the integrity of police when there is no factual statement that justifies questioning their integrity. To cast doubt on the professional integrity of a government employee for absolutely no reason other than to undermine their reputations seems, to me, bizarre. If they did something wrong, let's read about it. If they did not, then the suggestion that they did something wrong is completely misplaced.

The reason is not to undermine credibility. Who is going to write about it if no one questions it? Who? The reporter that questions it? At some level, somewhere, the questions need to be asked, before any proof of anything can be found. It's really at Cause and Effect 101 here... I can't make it any simpler.
 
  • #790
It doesn't matter how police arrived at the conclusion that all three victims are dead. They are dead, and police have evidence to support that fact.

Clearly it does matter, for all the obvious reasons you can easily imagine.
 
  • #791
Well for me it is simple, I worry that 200 officers were rushed, overworked, and tired. That could have resulted in miscommunication and errors. I think that if I were to only go on what was presented by LE and what I followed in MSM reports that LE can stand firm in saying they are dead and that DG is the only suspect at this time because of circumstantial precedented evidence that could be as simple as following a paper trail (bank records etc.). They are not lying. They are following evidence, procedure and approval from consultation with the crown. The court process will be much longer of a process and that is when the piece-by-piece evidence will be validated.

We could start a Save Douglas Garland blog. It's common for some people to support accused murderers. I wonder if he has received fan mail and marriage proposals, or if that only happens in the US.

If some of the 200 officers were tired and missed something, the rest of them would have caught it. Normally there are two detectives on a case, so it's easier to make mistakes. With 400 eyeballs checking everything, it's virtually impossible for anything to be overlooked.
 
  • #792
The thing is, although there may have been 200 officers involved in this investigation, only a handful perhaps are in a position to call the shots. For all that we know, there may have been many of those 200 officers who missed something, and there may have been many that thought differently about any given tip or lead, and were told not to bother following it. They do as they are instructed by their superiors. There may not be anything to criticize YET, because we know practically zero. When this case gets to court and we start hearing and reading the information we are now missing, we may or may not feel differently. "Hindsight is 20/20". I will feel very sad if the trio are discovered 2 years from now located in the area which was supposed to have been searched surrounding the L home, as you posted above, but were missed because LE was so intent on searching the Airdrie property. Who made that decision to call off that search, I'm sure it wasn't 200 officers. It is possible that some of those 200 officers believed it may still have been a good idea.

I agree that the fact that 200 officers are involved doesn't mean they can't have screwed up, but what it does mean is that if there were major screw-ups there is lots of potential for leaks. When 200 people are involved and there's a mess, someone almost always talks.

Also, I don't think it's a major investigative failing that they haven't found the bodies. At some point, you do have to call off a search. A wrong decision can be made for the right reasons. Or a wrong decision can be made for the wrong reasons.

I guess I would compare it to the Laura Babcock murder. Police made a huge mistake by not interviewing Dellen Millard, who was the last person she called before disappearing, that's undeniable. But if they had interviewed him and not found anything to pursue, would it still have been a major mistake or just a bad call? Investigators are not always going to be right. And we can't expect them to be.

Where it becomes problematic is when new evidence arises and they refuse to look again, when they become more interested in 🤬🤬🤬 covering than getting to the truth, when they let petty jurisdictional disputes become more important than justice. Or if an individual has a spectacularly high wrong decision rate.

Also, note that in the Babcock and Wayne Millard cases, you had cops leaking info about the mistakes in the investigation to the press because they were mad about the incompetence. People do tend to talk when something's amiss. And they talk long before the trial.

The mistakes in the PIckton case were clear even before he was charged. In Bernardo and Homolka too, the errors were evident long before the trials. They didn't come out in court.

Here we have heard nothing to indicate anything's amiss.

That doesn't mean that I am confident they have enough evidence to get a conviction because I know nothing about their evidence. But I am 100% confident the victims are dead. Of that there is zero doubt in my mind. No police chief would state they were dead if there was a single shred of doubt. His career would be over if they turn up alive. He would be a laughing stock.
 
  • #793
Clearly it does matter, for all the obvious reasons you can easily imagine.

Why does it matter what evidence police relied on to confirm that the victims are in fact dead? Are we going to decide that the medical examiner can't do his job because we disagree with how it is done?
 
  • #794
We could start a Save Douglas Garland blog. It's common for some people to support accused murderers. I wonder if he has received fan mail and marriage proposals, or if that only happens in the US.

If some of the 200 officers were tired and missed something, the rest of them would have caught it. Normally there are two detectives on a case, so it's easier to make mistakes. With 400 eyeballs checking everything, it's virtually impossible for anything to be overlooked.

"Virtually"
 
  • #795
Why does it matter what evidence police relied on to confirm that the victims are in fact dead? Are we going to decide that the medical examiner can't do his job because we disagree with how it is done?

Because certain evidence, like volume of blood, can be staged and therefore argued during the defence portion of the trial.
 
  • #796
We could start a Save Douglas Garland blog. It's common for some people to support accused murderers. I wonder if he has received fan mail and marriage proposals, or if that only happens in the US.

If some of the 200 officers were tired and missed something, the rest of them would have caught it. Normally there are two detectives on a case, so it's easier to make mistakes. With 400 eyeballs checking everything, it's virtually impossible for anything to be overlooked.

You have got to be kidding me. Ugh! I am not some sick twisted person who seeks out potential murderers so that I can send love letters. If he is guilty and found criminally responsible I hope he rots. I want to make absolutely certain that I will be satisfied that DG is the only and the right individual and that the victims and their families are served justice.
 
  • #797
Because certain evidence, like volume of blood, can be staged and therefore argued during the defence portion of the trial.

Staged? We saw human tissue in front of the house. What are the chances that there was more human tissue inside the house?
 
  • #798
You have got to be kidding me. Ugh! I am not some sick twisted person who seeks out potential murderers so that I can send love letters. If he is guilty and found criminally responsible I hope he rots. I want to make absolutely certain that I will be satisfied that DG is the only and the right individual and that the victims and their families are served justice.

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you should start a Save the Accused Murderer blog ... just pointing out that some people start with attacking the investigation, and before we know it, there's a blog to save the murderer from prosecution and conviction.

I am certain that the correct person was arrested and that he will be convicted. I understand that many people want to wait for the trial, to hear the evidence, and then to only believe that the man is guilty when the verdict is declared.
 
  • #799
There is opposition to questioning the integrity of police when there is no factual statement that justifies questioning their integrity. To cast doubt on the professional integrity of a government employee for absolutely no reason other than to undermine their reputations seems, to me, bizarre. If they did something wrong, let's read about it. If they did not, then the suggestion that they did something wrong is completely misplaced.

Not only bizarre, but wilda$$ speculation that is not based on any known fact and is against TOS.
 
  • #800
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