Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Maybe you can't say LE was competent without convicting DG before his trial, but I personally can. I can say LE did a good job and still have an open mind for the court proceedings to unfold. I can uphold DG's right to a fair trial and to have defence counsel defend him as vigorously as possible. See? I haven't convicted DG of anything.

[modsnip]

Others are allowed to question if the victims are alive, without having the words put in their mouth that LE is incompetent. They can also think LE did a good job, but look at the evidence open mindedly to determine if there is a way they are alive.

 

[otto]

Your welcome, WS recommends using these little words and we are all guilty of forgetting to use them from time to time.

As for theories - and despite what LE has stated - I'm still of the camp that DG had assistance.

It's easy to lose the little words.

Assistance from whom?
... and why?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Exactly.

Websleuth Statement: perhaps the victims are alive
Police Statement: victims are not alive

To suggest the former, one must doubt the latter.
To doubt the latter means to doubt Chief of Police statements.
I would like to hear just one reason to doubt statements from the Calgary Chief of Police.

Strategy...investigative strategy.

 

[otto]

[modsnip]

Others are allowed to question if the victims are alive, without having the words put in their mouth that LE is incompetent. They can also think LE did a good job, but look at the evidence to determine if there is a way they are alive.

I don't have flawed logic, and I would still like to discuss the physics and mathematics of a 50th %-ile sinewy 160 lbs man hoisting a 6'2" 200 lbs man into the back of a pickup truck.

Even though the Chief of Police has categorically stated that the victims are deceased, it's still perfectly fine for everyone to doubt the police. It's certainly a perspective on the case to doubt police. What I'd like to know is: why doubt them? What did they do that gives us cause to doubt their abilities?

 

[LoisLane]

[/B]

Lol...I'm here...I went to Mexico to check things out for myself! I'm kidding...had a very old little puppy that needed some extra attention for a bit, sadly she's passed and I'm a little heartbroken so haven't been online much at all. One thing I've thought about a lot lately is it's bad enough losing a family pet...I can't imagine what it must be like to lose a child...I don't think I could handle it...how JO and RO are coping is way beyond me. God bless them both for their strength through this and continuing to be present for their other children. Some cards that life hands out are unbelievable.

Hi Tinkerbel. I am sorry to hear about your pup, that is very difficult and heart breaking. I feel what you are saying about Nathan's parents and how difficult it would be to cope. I certainly couldn't do it. I only have one child and if I had others that would be the only way to keep me going but if I lost my only son I would not be able to go on, I just wouldn't.

A WS field trip to Mexico would be interesting, what do you say? LOL!

 

[stan laurel]

It's easy to lose the little words.

Assistance from whom?
... and why?

can't say without breaking ws rules, which is a shame.

 

[Slebby]

Sorry for commenting on this so long after the fact but, have you noticed the Friends' Lists on FB of the Liknes family members? Everyone seems to have the same friends...very intertwined....it always struck me what a close and open family they seemed to be...everyone seemed to know everyone kind of thing...I find it difficult to believe that DG would go totally unnoticed...his sister is part of the Liknes family, their kids I believe are friends with their cousins, etc...how can it be that one facet of the family...PG....not have any interest shown in her side of the family...DG is their uncle. PG is JO's step-sister-in-law...how in the world would her family background, etc be missed? Unless PG is super-private...which is entirely possible. She doesn't seem to appear in many family pics, etc. Stan Laurel said it..."baffling" is right. I mean, even so much as to have heard PG had a "strange brother" or something...something! (I'm sorry, I don't have a link). This is JMO.

Hi Tinkerbel1, haven't seen you around.
My hubby is from a big close family. I am aware of a horrible scandal within one of the in-law families. I was present for a very unfortunate gossip session in which the dirty family laundry was aired. The family member who shared the details later regretted it, and asked that we never repeat the story to anyone as it would cause great distress to their spouse if others knew. I now know things I wish I didn't. I can guarantee that at least half of the family is unaware of this awful scandal.

I could see it being that way with the extended L family. It's possible AL Jr. did not want to blab the details of his wayward BIL to his extended family, out of respect for his wife and his Inaws. I'm sure that, for them, the criminal background of DG is a source of great heartache and something they would wish to keep private.

IMHO

 

[otto]

can't say without breaking ws rules, which is a shame.

Yes, it is against the rules to cast aspersions without foundation.

 

[Slebby]

What about the rest of the post that you snipped? I can't wait to hear the response.

Deflection does not work here.

I responded to your 2 part comment with 2 comments.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

[/B]

Lol...I'm here...I went to Mexico to check things out for myself! I'm kidding...had a very old little puppy that needed some extra attention for a bit, sadly she's passed and I'm a little heartbroken so haven't been online much at all. One thing I've thought about a lot lately is it's bad enough losing a family pet...I can't imagine what it must be like to lose a child...I don't think I could handle it...how JO and RO are coping is way beyond me. God bless them both for their strength through this and continuing to be present for their other children. Some cards that life hands out are unbelievable.

Welcome back and so sorry to hear your news

Bless JO and RO and also, bless you.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I don't have flawed logic, and I would still like to discuss the physics and mathematics of a 50th %-ile sinewy 160 lbs man hoisting a 6'2" 200 lbs man into the back of a pickup truck.

Even though the Chief of Police has categorically stated that the victims are deceased, it's still perfectly fine for everyone to doubt the police. It's certainly a perspective on the case to doubt police. What I'd like to know is: why doubt them? What did they do that gives us cause to doubt their abilities?

[modsnip]

In order for LE THEMSELVES to determine the victims are, in fact, deceased, they also have to eliminate the possibility the evidence wasn't planted, or that any other plausible scenario exists that they could still be alive. To question it here is no different than the process that LE has gone through, or the process the defence team is now going through. Most evidence that is not a smoking gun, is completely open to interpretation.

 

[Slebby]

[/B]

Lol...I'm here...I went to Mexico to check things out for myself! I'm kidding...had a very old little puppy that needed some extra attention for a bit, sadly she's passed and I'm a little heartbroken so haven't been online much at all. One thing I've thought about a lot lately is it's bad enough losing a family pet...I can't imagine what it must be like to lose a child...I don't think I could handle it...how JO and RO are coping is way beyond me. God bless them both for their strength through this and continuing to be present for their other children. Some cards that life hands out are unbelievable.

So sad for you, Tinkerbel1, for the loss of your dog. I know how hard that can be. I hope you are taking some time to be good to yourself at such a sad time. Peace.

 

[LoisLane]

Thank you for making those corrections! I am guilty of accidentally omitting little words, writing of instead of or, and omitting the fact that my opinion on a public forum is my opinion.

Although we all have a good memory, I can't forget the fact that the Chief of Police made a press statement declaring that the victims are deceased. Apparently, some have forgotten about this.

I think that the victims were camouflaged with bedding because police were collecting bedding from the dump. Police wouldn't be collecting bedding if they weren't looking for it, and they wouldn't be looking for bedding if it wasn't missing from the crime scene. If bedding was missing from the crime scene, it was removed for a reason. Given that the victims are also missing, and the accused has a green Ford pickup truck, and there is surveillance imagery of the back of that truck, it's likely that police have a photo of the accused's truck and are looking for bedding to match what is in photo surveillance and what is missing from the house. Clearly bedding is missing from the house if police are collecting bedding from the dump.

Some question how 5'7" 160 pound Garland lifted 6'2" 200 pound Alvin Liknes into the back of a truck. One possibility is that Alvin was disarticulated before being put into the back of the green Ford pickup truck. That does not preclude being covered with bedding. With, or without, being intact, Alvin Liknes was removed from the bloody crime scene by 5'7" 160 pound Garland.

Was the bedding weighted down? Who knows. There were three dead bodies that were removed from the crime scene, so it's quite possible that the bedding was weighted down with the bodies.

If the bedding served the purpose you describe it would have to be dumped in a garbage bin in the vicinity of the Liknes home and after the dumping of the bodies. Is that how you see it? Another trip back to the neighborhood to dispose of evidence? I wonder what the parameter of the crime scene was included at the landfill. IIRC the landfill was searched in the late part of the investigation. If they had video showing the blankets I wonder if they had searched the landfill in the early days as well. Especially (for example) if the blankets were missing in a third timeframe CCTV footage.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I come from a large family, lotsa cousins and so forth,,, our family as well as another family seems to know the other family. That other family is of that certain ilk that they are to be noted as, self appointed as the prime family and all other families are by-product families,, if one is from a by-product family, the by-product must know every fine detail of the prime family but they could care less about you. some families are so tight knit that they forget that other families will at some point become part of a greater family. to be better put, some families like people are so self absorbed that it's not like they don't care to know but merely don't know and of course, don't care, but like to maintain that all know about them. by the sounds of it the non-existent (from that family) dg seemed to know a heck of a lot about the L's and their plans.

Very good analogy of family dynamics. I think most very large, extended families have an 'alpha family' (I think I just made that term up now lol, and I think that's how I interpret what you mean by prime family? Hope I understood your description ).

And interesting point that JO might not know of DG, but DG obviously knew enough info about the L's to time and organize this crime as so. The L's might've been the centre point of the family, and if DG felt like an outsider whether by choice or not - might instigate some build up resentment.

 

[otto]

Hi Tinkerbel. I am sorry to hear about your pup, that is very difficult and heart breaking. I feel what you are saying about Nathan's parents and how difficult it would be to cope. I certainly couldn't do it. I only have one child and if I had others that would be the only way to keep me going but if I lost my only son I would not be able to go on, I just wouldn't.

A WS field trip to Mexico would be interesting, what do you say? LOL!

I vote yes. Loislane and Tinkerbel should, if they have time and inclination, go to Mazatlan and see what they can learn.
Someone there knows everything.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Hi Tinkerbel1, haven't seen you around.
My hubby is from a big close family. I am aware of a horrible scandal within one of the in-law families. I was present for a very unfortunate gossip session in which the dirty family laundry was aired. The family member who shared the details later regretted it, and asked that we never repeat the story to anyone as it would cause great distress to their spouse if others knew. I now know things I wish I didn't. I can guarantee that at least half of the family is unaware of this awful scandal.

I could see it being that way with the extended L family. It's possible AL Jr. did not want to blab the details of his wayward BIL to his extended family, out of respect for his wife and his Inaws. I'm sure that, for them, the criminal background of DG is a source of great heartache and something they would wish to keep private.

IMHO

Another good angle to see things in. Very good point, DG could've been *that weird guy* that no one talks or wants to talk about or to, nonetheless be around if he was considered an embarrassment, antisocial and the family pariah.

DG could've been brushed under the rug by everyone for a long period of time and maybe finally snapped about it and somehow blamed ALSr. if he was the alpha male of the huge family. This could very well be motive also.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I vote yes. Loislane and Tinkerbel should, if they have time and inclination, go to Mazatlan and see what they can learn.
Someone there knows everything.

C'mon otto, you should go too, get a tan and keep the two ladies company

 

[otto]

[modsnip]

In order for LE THEMSELVES to determine the victims are, in fact, deceased, they also have to eliminate the possibility the evidence wasn't planted, or that any other plausible scenario exists that they could still be alive. To question it here is no different than the process that LE has gone through, or the process the defence team is now going through. Most evidence that is not a smoking gun, is completely open to interpretation.

[modsnip]

I'm sure that the CPS are trained to eliminate the possibility of a staged crime scene.
To question whether DNA evidence confirming that the three victims are deceased is valid is to doubt the statements of the Calgary Chief of Police.

The 20 year old green T150 Ford pickup truck in pristine condition was the smoking gun.

 

[otto]

C'mon otto, you should go too, get a tan and keep the two ladies company

I already have plans, Thank You.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

C'mon otto, you should go too, get a tan and keep the two ladies company

Ahem.